Time Attack records?

[korzic]

I was just wondering what the record for a run of Ys II Complete's Time Attack mode is. Currently, my best time is 3:09:97, although I believe it is possible (though highly unlikely) to get a time of just under 2:50:00. If anyone's interested, I do have the 3:09:97 video up on YouTube. Here's the link:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cFtF9luiOQ

So, what are your Time Attack records for Ys II Complete?

My individual bests are as follows. Some of them may be off, since I usually don't know the non-Velagunder times until after completing a full run, and I often quit prematurely (though I could manually time them via VirtualDub, but I usually don't do that either):

Velagunder - 0:10:60
Tyalmath - 0:12:43
Gelaldy - 0:25:03
Druegar - 0:11:96
Zava - 0:43:71
Dalles - 0:38:80
Darm - 0:28:95

[korzic]

Nobody has any times they want to share? Granted, I realize that this is not exactly the most popular Ys game to do the Time Attack/Boss Rush mode on, but still...

In any case, the link in the first post now goes to my 3:39:02 run (the 3:53:99 video has been removed), in case anyone wishes to view it.

I was also wondering if anyone had any boss strategies they might like to share (keep in mind, this is for Time Attack mode only, not a normal playthrough). Specifically, I'm wondering whether or not Gelaldy can be taken down in one round, and if there is a way to consistently hit Dalles three times shortly after he appears. Other strategies are welcome as well (particularly the bat portion of Zava), although I'm mostly concerned with the two mentioned above.

[korzic]

New video is up! My new time is 3:09:97, which beats my previously posted run (now removed) by a little bit over 29 seconds. The link in the first post has been updated for those who wish to view the new run.

I figured out a way to consistently beat Gelaldy in one round, which saves 24-25 seconds, but it is still quite difficult to get a good time. Under 3:00:00 (as low as 2:50:00) should now be possible with my current tactics, but that is proving difficult to even come close to. For that to happen, not only do I need to defeat Gelaldy in one round, but I also need Zava, Dalles, and Darm to cooperate. Darm usually isn't too much of a problem, but Zava and Dalles - especially Dalles - are quite difficult for me to get good times on recently. Any tactics anyone might wish to share would be appreciated.

[Red Hairdo]

Hey, very nice man! xD

Hm, I never gave a serious try in both Ys I and Ys II COMPLETE's boss rush...
Heh, I guess I'll try it for real then.

Sometime next week, I expect...

[korzic]

Good luck! If you or anyone else is really serious about trying for a good time, then I'd be willing to share all that I know strategy-wise.

In regards to Ys I Complete's Time Attack/Boss Rush, I've tried it (haven't completed it, though), but I'm rather inconsistent with Jenocres (first boss). Plus, the vampire boss and Dark Fact would really test my patience. I think Ys I's bosses require more skill than those of Ys II's, although the ones in Ys II are difficult in their own right.

[korzic]

Mega thread bump. =p

Decided to do a TAS of Ys I Complete's TA mode, though I really don't know how optimized it is (my unassisted best is 3:19:87, seen here). Here's a couple links:



tasvideos.org/userfiles/download/9990550647345805 (movie file, recorded with Hourglass r81 - needs TA already enabled)

More info about the strats and such is in the Youtube description.

[korzic]

I doubt anyone's had Vagullion appear like that before. =p A pain to manipulate, but really satisfying to see. I think the best luck I've had for unassisted TA is 7-8 straight appearances, but he tends to troll most of the remaining hits to balance it out.

As for the opening hit, that's only possible in Complete, not Chronicles (or Eternal for that matter, even though TA wasn't available then). Chronicles in general seems to let you start things a tad later than in Complete, for some reason (loading the fights, I suppose). At least for Ys I, Ys II seems almost identical in this regard (only thing I've noticed in Chronicles+ is that you can hit Darm right away, but you gotta wait a little in Complete).

[korzic]

Been trying on and off for some time now, and I finally managed to beat my old Ys II time - currently it sits at 3:07:01, though I botched the final hits on Darm (should've been a 3:02 or 3:03, but honestly, the potential was there to get under 3 minutes going into that fight). I'm not going to upload this one to Youtube, but here's an archive.org link (direct link isn't working right now for some reason), though whenever something better comes along (I'm aiming for under 3 minutes), I'll more than likely remove the file:

archive.org/details/YsIiCompleteSpeedrun-Segment2

Anyway, some comments about this attempt, and my strategies in general:

SPOILER: Click to show

First, the Velagunder fight. While I do have a slightly slower 3 round kill uploaded to my Youtube channel, it was honestly luck-based at the time to have gotten it. However, I've since learned that the pattern shown here is reproducible without too much trouble, though it requires a lot of precision, and almost no room for error. My movements and fireballs (the very opening one aside - it's nearly always there) need to happen when they do, or else it leads to a low 11 second time, or a 4 round kill (neither of which I prefer, but I can live with a low 11 second time).

Tyalmath, not much to say here. I just stay still and hope he holds off on a jump at least once, or else the time is usually a 24-something instead of a 23 - doesn't seem to be anything you can do to alter this, at least not that I know of. Also, yeah, the game does in fact let you in that hidden passage and grab the chest with the gold afterwards, if you're fast enough. =p

Gelaldy just takes practice to kill him as soon as I do, but dealing good damage when he releases the worm also plays a part. I'm pretty good at getting 4 out of those 5 charged shots to connect, but the second of those seems to require an extra precise position for it to connect, which it unfortunately didn't this time. Still, the fight ended where it usually does, though occasionally I can get a 48-something time by this point.

Druegar has a brief invulnerability at the beginning of the fight, so the first shot needs to be delayed some. After that, I prefer to exhaust the MP bar as quickly as possible, followed by one extra shot before charging again. At that point, it's simply a matter of letting the MP bar fill all the way up (or pretty close to it, at least) before exhausting it again to end the fight. During that second MP charging, I let him bounce me around a little, and so I usually use the Smoked Meat as a precaution during the second volley (both to stay alive, as well as maintain my position, since the projectiles briefly pass through you while healing), though I didn't do so this time for some reason. That fight could've easily ended very differently. A time of 1:01 or 1:02 is pretty standard at this point.

Next up, Zava. Up to this point, I'm usually very consistent with my times, but this is usually the first fight where things can screw up a potential personal best. Due to the erratic behavior of Zava's minions, it can be difficult at times to get your charged shots to hit them, but sometimes they'll miss (partially due to Zava's presence, and I think partially because it doesn't always home in on the minion you want). I've found that firing up close tends to minimize missed shots, but another common problem is when the bats are in one of the upper corners. If you're near the middle and trying to fire into one of those corners, chances are the fireball will harmlessly go to Zava herself, which you obviously don't want, so it's usually best to move closer to the corner in that instance. That aside, I try not to direct my attention towards one single bat, as the little homing fireballs don't always connect with the other minions, so it's best to try to distribute damage evenly among them all. Zava herself is easy, but the additional minion can absorb the damage intended for her, so I prefer to fire at point blank range. This fight went unusually well in regards to not missing most of my shots. A time of 1:45 is my target time after this fight, but it's usually 1:50 or so - much higher than that, I usually don't feel confident enough to get good luck with the remaining bosses.

Things don't get any easier with Dalles. Quite the contrary, this is where nearly all of my runs die. I honestly have no clue how to consistently get 3 hits per appearance, but usually it seems that altering my direction even a little bit after the the first one lands will only get me 2 hits. Of course, you need to also be able to avoid the projectiles while doing so, but that seems immensely luck-based. Even then, I sometimes only get 2 hits in for some reason, and I really don't understand why. You can get 4 hits in, but I've only ever done this on the opening hits, though I suspect it can be done all throughout the fight. It not only seems to require luck with getting the normal 3 hits in, but you also seem to need a favorable damage boost from the meteors directly after the 3rd hit. Needless to say, it's not at all easy to be consistent with this fight. Around 2:30 is where I prefer to be after this fight, but that almost never happens (it's almost always 2:47 or so, which isn't anywhere near close to being able to beat my time). Honestly, the time I had after this battle was perhaps the best I've done so far, though if a 6 round Dalles kill ever happens (currently, 7 is the best I can do), it could potentially be 2:20 or lower.

Finally, Darm. The first thing to note is that in Complete (the version I usually prefer to do TA in), he has a brief invulnerability period, so the opening hit needs to be delayed just a tad (this is not the case for Chronicles, where he can be damaged ASAP). Anyway, ideally I want him to be held in place at a position where I have little to no knockback, though unfortunately, the manner in which he moves seems random, with perhaps a preference towards the inner/outer areas where you can't reach him (though with the inner area he should be reachable anywhere, at least during the first phase of the fight). The second phase is when things tend to fall apart, as he will usually try and head to the center where you are unable to damage him. Even without that problem, his hitbox is a lot smaller, and on top of that, it's rounded, so it's hard to maintain a steady stream of hits, especially when he's moving. As I said earlier, this fight probably should've ended at 3:02 or 3:03 something, but my positioning was off, and I failed to keep him away from the center. In addition, those yellow wavy projectiles are sometimes a problem in getting hits quickly enough, as they unfortunately did this time at the very end. A time of 35 seconds or so is usually acceptable enough for this fight, but as the first post indicates, I have gotten times under 30 seconds before. To do so is extremely luck-based, and requires you to somehow be wedged in extra tight between him and the arena edge, allowing you to land hits much quicker than normal. I don't really know how to get in such a position at this time, but it's definitely something I want to look into eventually. Anyway, while this has resulted in times of under 30 seconds, I think the time could theoretically be even lower, as I believe the instances where it has happened to me, it's only been once per battle, and of course Darm has two phases, so...

Also, I've updated the first post of this topic to include my individual bests for Ys II. I may do so for my Ys I times at some point, but I haven't been keeping track of those nearly as well (mostly because Vagullion's seemingly random AI tends to kill my motivation for that rather quickly).

EDIT: Got a 3:01:91 a short while ago. I'll upload it to archive.org within a day or two if I can't beat it by then.

EDIT 2: Updated archive.org with the 3:01:91 video. Too lazy to update the strategy text above to reflect this specific attempt, but Velagunder was a tad slow (my fault, missed a key fireball); Dalles started off really good, but still ultimately a 7 round kill (with the 4 opening hits, it could've been 6); finally, Darm was a bit trollish during the first phase, though it was balanced out by a smoother than usual 2nd phase.

[korzic]

Does anyone know a way I can monitor the hit points of Zava's minions? The GOG version of Ys II doesn't appear to suffer the Hourglass desync issues I've mentioned elsewhere with Complete and Eternal, so I've decided to try and do a Time Attack TAS, but progress is stalled because I can't tell how much damage I'm doing to them (thanks to the help of a friend, I've been able to do so for other bosses/enemies, but the bats have no visible HP bars).

Regardless, here's the progress I've made so far (though probably not quite optimal):

SPOILER: Click to show

Like I said, I don't know that any of the times so far are optimized, but here's some comments nonetheless.

Velagunder may be the most improvable, as I ended up doing most of that fight in real-time, as the movement needed to get this pattern proved very difficult for me to replicate via frame advance, and it's pretty easy to get the "wrong" pattern.

Tyalmath, I found that if he jumps at all (outside of the beginning, of course =p), that adds to the overall time, so you need to keep him grounded. I found I could manipulate him to stay put by firing my shots a certain way. However, the manner in which I did so wasn't quite optimal (generally, best method I think is fully charged, small uncharged immediately after, then fully charged again), but it seemed to be the quickest pattern I could come up with while keeping him grounded.

Gelaldy, I just focused on damaging him as much as possible as he released the worm, so he'd go down quicker once he re-absorbed the thing. Optimizing the Fire Magic's damage output is quite a pain, but this is the best I could come up with.

Druegar, I found that both uncharged and fully charged shots did the exact same amount of damage. However, you can do an uncharged shot immediately after a charged one (provided the MP bar's "charge" isn't depleted), so that helped drop his HP quicker. Still, for whatever reason, I found that instead of firing my shots charged, uncharged, charged, uncharged, a pattern of charged, uncharged, uncharged, then repeat worked best here.