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Post by Justin on Feb 3, 2009 20:00:28 GMT -5
That may be, but its still not a "sob story" which you still have yet to explain properly. I am not convinced you know what your talking about, because you are not the copyright holder in question. Putting someones reasoning down like that is simple minded. No its not legal ether way, but you do not have any right to berate someones stance because your "college years" were spent differently. People don't run and pirate a game because a company takes action, but its poor PR for a company to go that far. I think that people who sell pirated material should be punished, but companies should leave that to the authorities instead of trying to be crusaders themselves. And manual anti piracy measures are quite well known. The average age on this board is in the high 20's. Man it must be nice living in bliss. Read Red's post again, as he made it quite clear that Brazil's population is VERY POOR. Not a little, not American Poor, not Master P Ghetto riddaz poor, but actually POOR. People cannot simply "gather round the camp fire" and pool their money together. He said a PS3 costs over $4000, and that's something I can't see happening: There is bound to be some great arcades in there hey!!! Oh Oh can you see the Gamestop in the lower left corner too!!! I get where your coming from, but the world just doesn't work like that man. I don't care to carry this conversation on if your going to be totally one sided with the whole issue. There are 2 sided to every story, and understanding both is the key to understanding the whole issue.
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undamned
Lyus
Hyper Solid Shooting!
Posts: 120
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Post by undamned on Feb 3, 2009 22:52:29 GMT -5
I'd like to reply to various points from all of you, but for the sake of brevity/sanity, I'll just hit a few I told you, it's a different reality, it's "another world" if I may. I even said it's fine not to know about how it is, because you don't live here. But from the looks of it, I don't think you are open-minded enough to see it... Actually I've spent some time in an impoverished area of Mexico, El Choyudo. It's a tiny fishing village with no running water and only one "store," that I can recall, so I'm aquainted with "poor." And as far as my personal upbringing, I can't say I grew up in poverty. I grew up in a rural farming community and although my parents could afford to buy me video games, they pretty much chose not to (they wanted me to spend my time being more "active"). For years the only video game system I had was an old TRS-80 that a family friend gave to us for Christmas. And you know what? I played the tar out of that thing and loved every minute of it. I later saved enough money and coerced my folks to let me buy a game or two on my own, but even those were severely behind the times, as most NES games were more advanced than what I had. Any gaming beyond that was primarily going to friend's houses who were fortunate enough to have a selection of NES carts or cool Sierra adventure games on the PC I now have the means to buy most of the games I want (although I'm usually behind by at least 1 generation because I'm constantly trying to catch up on games I've missed through the years!), but if you took that away from me, I know how to live with very little and enjoy it, so don't look at me as someone who doesn't understand people from different social classes. There is bound to be some great arcades in there hey!!! Oh Oh can you see the Gamestop in the lower left corner too!!! Heh, funny you should joke about that because Choyudo actually had a handfull of beat up arcade cabs that still ran, outside their one little store. Just to give an example, the PS2 did extremely well over here... People cannot simply "gather round the camp fire" and pool their money together. Dude, if people are buying PS2's over there, you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Stick to defending the poverty in Canada or at least somewhere you've actually visited. I don't really know what else can be said here, other than... we disagree with you! Yes, that is clear, now. I hope you don't all hate me -ud
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Feb 3, 2009 23:09:57 GMT -5
The all-too-infamous "it's too mainstream for you" arguments come to mind. XD I'm surprised that nobody's given me flack yet, on that prospect.
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Post by Justin on Feb 4, 2009 1:14:13 GMT -5
Long rant that still didn't answer any questions If you expect me to sit here and base my entire opinion on places I have "visited" then how am I supposed to take you seriously? I won't simplify my view to better where you are coming from. I don't care if you went to cocomo, timbucktoo, fairyland, or Valhalla, you need to understand that things are not the same around the world. Like I said, if you can't see things from both perspectives, you come off like an ass. Just because I haven't visited the country, doesn't mean I don't know whats going on. In all honesty, when a person who actually lives there says quite the opposite of what you say, I tend to believe them more. Ok I guess you came across some game machines on your whoppie-do vacation, but that still doesn't justify your "sob story" stamp of disapproval with worldwide piracy. Call me out all you want, all I am asking is for you to take a bigger look at the whole picture, figure out where you stand, and then ask yourself if its really worth putting another members opinion down over. Well have to agree to disagree at best, but please take care when "replying" to others opinions. Telling someone their opinion is a "sob story" is not a classy way of engaging in "mature" conversation.
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Post by zaratus on Feb 4, 2009 1:14:43 GMT -5
That's all good and well, but unless this is Falcom's methodology, it fails in the context of this discussion: pirating Ys games. Wait what? People who can afford the game are being "caused" to pirate by game companies? How does that work exactly? (Mad props for knowing your PC heritage, by the way There are probably 10 people on these boards who even remember manual anti-piracy) -ud Well, for the first case, I was just bringing up an example from one of the things Wyrdwad said in his post about piracy. And I think the other part of my post, about companies causing people to pirate, came out worded a bit wrong. People are pirating the games, because of the DRM companies are trying to use to help foster more sales. But, they're hurting their own sales in a fashion doing this, as people really don't like the DRM measures used, so they pirate the game. It kinda goes along with what Wyrdwad said about Spore and it's DRM, and how heavily it was pirated because of it. I haven't had any problems with DRM myself, but I'm not really a big PC gamer either, err, though I do play World of Warcraft more than I should. =P Although, I've heard of other situations, where people who actually *PAID* for the game (Some other game, don't think it was Spore), and installed it, still couldn't play the game because of the DRM, and actually had to download a pirated copy to get the game to play. That's the kind of thing that gets people to stop paying for games and just download it, when an actual retail copy won't run. Yet, the pirated versions run fine because the DRM gets disabled. I've heard quite a few horror stories with DRM though. Eh, I'm kinda glad most of the stuff on the PC market doesn't interest me much anymore, as I haven't run into any such problems. I... can't even remember the last game I purchased for PC. I think it was an indie title anyway. And derailing the topic even more: I know there were more creative versions of the manual checking/wheel thingies that games used to use, but I just can't remember any. Heh, I also remember with some games, trying to guess the code, because I didn't want to dig out the manual. Since they usually gave the first letter of the word, you could sometimes figure it out. =P
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undamned
Lyus
Hyper Solid Shooting!
Posts: 120
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Post by undamned on Feb 4, 2009 5:49:29 GMT -5
If you expect me to sit here and base my entire opinion on places I have "visited" then how am I supposed to take you seriously? ...you need to understand that things are not the same around the world. ...Just because I haven't visited the country, doesn't mean I don't know whats going on. In all honesty, when a person who actually lives there says quite the opposite of what you say, I tend to believe them more. I recommended not speaking authoritatively about places you've never been to because you managed to botch your "facts" about a place you've never been to. If you read my post you'd have seen my quote from ranzor who suposedly lives there and states: the PS2 did extremely well over here... So, not only does your statement about people not being able to pool money together not even make sense, but according to ranzor it's rubbish because people are buying PS2's (people he knows, mind you, not just "government officials" or what have you). Ok I guess you came across some game machines on your whoppie-do vacation, but that still doesn't justify your "sob story" stamp of disapproval with worldwide piracy. I wasn't trying to prove anything about sob stories with that statement. I just thought it was funny that our Canadian authority on South America couldn't believe that a video arcade could exist in an impoverished area of the world and I just happened to have seen one personally. Call me out all you want, all I am asking is for you to take a bigger look at the whole picture, figure out where you stand, and then ask yourself if its really worth putting another members opinion down over. The bottom line is, when someone wants to tell me that stealing is ok, I'm simply not going to go along with that. Wherever you live. Clearly you didn't follow what I was getting at in my previous posts. Depending on where you live in the world you may need to be content with little. I've done it, others can to. If you are still unclear about what a "sob story" is, it's a story that pulls the emotions so that you will side with someone. I do have sympathy for people in impoverished areas, but don't tell me that stealing is ok because you don't have money (save my caveat for survival) or because something is inconvenient to obtain. -ud
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Feb 4, 2009 6:12:33 GMT -5
Oh god. Manual copy-protection. NOW I definately remember King's Quest V. The manual didn't have a table, either; you had to flip the pages to figure out what codes were what. That was irritating as hell, because it'd occur right at some of the most defining moments in the game! If you failed the copy-protection, you flat-out failed your quest!
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Post by SkyeWelse on Feb 4, 2009 9:50:52 GMT -5
Well, everyone here knows that I've been pretty sympathetic to Nightwolve's cause for the most part, and in many ways I still am. But I agree with most of you that these types of posts of his do nothing more than paint a sour image of himself to those who either do or did have respect for him and his work. It does feel like he is alienating even those members who did decide to donate for his work on the patch and I wish he wouldn't take such a public approach to voice his dissatisfaction with the original leaker and those who took the patch without donating to him. The only ones seeing that message are the ones who care to visit his site to see what may be going on. I really doubt that most of the patches that have been uploaded and easily accessible through torrents have any real link back to Nightwolve's website to read that message. More likely they've downloaded it at some torrent site, patched the game, played the game and thought nothing more about it. I'm not saying he does not have the right to still be angry about what happened, but his anger is definitely being misplaced I think and I feel that in all honestly it is being aimed in the direction of where a lot of donators are coming from.
I get along with Nightwolve and I consider him a friend of mine. I'm not sure if it will make a difference but maybe I can try and talk with him about this at some point. I really feel it would be best if he and everyone else could shake hands again and put things where they should go, in the past and move on from there.
What Wyrdwad said about Piracy is interesting to say the least and I believe that a lot of what he said is fairly true, at least for some companies. I definitely know that it is true as far as Photoshop is concerned. I've read that most of the Photoshop user population are users who have pirated it, but because of that, it has made the program so widespread that it has now become the one that everyone knows and uses. And Adobe still gains enough income through their professional developers who need the most current versions of the software to stay contemporary in their line of business.
Undamned, while I can appreciate and applaud your efforts to condemn software piracy as a global issue of it being no better than theft for something you don't require as life sustainence, I do agree with many of the others here that having such an approach is to be a bit too close minded of how the world works. I live in America and even though our economy isn't doing all that well either, you can be sure that there are other world economies that are doing far worse. I've also heard first hand from friends of mine who have visited various countries that copied media for sale such as pirated discs are abundant and part of the current culture there. No one one can afford to buy legitimate full priced copies of software and movies, so a group does and sells the copies of the media at much more affordable rates. Sure, it's still piracy, but you would have to live there and work there to understand their situation.
Hearing what Red Hairdo had to say put his situation a bit more in perspective for me in how much it might actually cost to just make a living there. Piracy or not, from my perspective I believe that Red Hairdo has the right to find anyway necessarily and open to him to find a method of playing the Ys games. I would just make a suggestion that while I have no problem supporting that, it would be nice if his intentions were to one day be able to purchase the real games at a later time when he's able to afford it.
And sure I remember manual copy protection. Because of that, I cannot play my Monkey Island any more because I lost the damn manual! Grrr....
-Thomas
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undamned
Lyus
Hyper Solid Shooting!
Posts: 120
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Post by undamned on Feb 4, 2009 11:03:14 GMT -5
One of the prevailing misconceptions in this thread is the concept that if companies don't pursue action against piracy because a.) it's not worth their time, or b.) you live in a country that they aren't concerned with, then it's ok to pirate their material. Whether or not a company takes action is not what defines what is lawful. Just because a cop fails to pull me over when I'm speeding doesn't mean I'm not doing anything wrong. -ud
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Post by Ranzor on Feb 4, 2009 13:47:04 GMT -5
undamned, there're different kinds of wrongs. If you threaten the life of other people, for example, it's very wrong. If you steal from a person, it's much worse than stealing from a mega chain store, in my opinion, regarding the hurt you are causing. Then, there's the kind of wrong we're talking about: "stealing" a game from a company that isn't counting on profits from your country, that doesn't sell products there. The harm you're causing is considerably less, I'd say, and, morally, the worst thing you're doing is that you're breaking the law, and the law isn't an absolute guide to morals.
As for the PS2 sales I talked about, people don't pool in to buy it here in Brazil, they divide the payment in 10, 20 times. And the poorer classes here mostly play outdated consoles. I'm talking about the middle class, which I'm a part of. When it comes to buying games, it would be absurd to pay a hundred dollars everytime you want to play something different, and that's why nobody buys official games. I agree that people don't need video games to live, and they also don't need TVs, sound systems, books, going to the movies, going to dance bars, etc.
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Post by Justin on Feb 4, 2009 15:20:24 GMT -5
If you expect me to sit here and base my entire opinion on places I have "visited" then how am I supposed to take you seriously? ...you need to understand that things are not the same around the world. ...Just because I haven't visited the country, doesn't mean I don't know whats going on. In all honesty, when a person who actually lives there says quite the opposite of what you say, I tend to believe them more. I recommended not speaking authoritatively about places you've never been to because you managed to botch your "facts" about a place you've never been to. If you read my post you'd have seen my quote from ranzor who suposedly lives there and states: So, not only does your statement about people not being able to pool money together not even make sense, but according to ranzor it's rubbish because people are buying PS2's (people he knows, mind you, not just "government officials" or what have you). I wasn't trying to prove anything about sob stories with that statement. I just thought it was funny that our Canadian authority on South America couldn't believe that a video arcade could exist in an impoverished area of the world and I just happened to have seen one personally. Call me out all you want, all I am asking is for you to take a bigger look at the whole picture, figure out where you stand, and then ask yourself if its really worth putting another members opinion down over. The bottom line is, when someone wants to tell me that stealing is ok, I'm simply not going to go along with that. Wherever you live. Clearly you didn't follow what I was getting at in my previous posts. Depending on where you live in the world you may need to be content with little. I've done it, others can to. If you are still unclear about what a "sob story" is, it's a story that pulls the emotions so that you will side with someone. I do have sympathy for people in impoverished areas, but don't tell me that stealing is ok because you don't have money (save my caveat for survival) or because something is inconvenient to obtain. -ud Canadian authority? Real mature buddy. What are you like 12? What a waste of time..... I have family in Australia, Ireland, England, South Africa, and Hungary. My family lived through the holocaust, and through the Hungarian revolution. I wasn't telling you that stealing was ok, I was telling you in the nicest way possible, that being an asshole to another member here is not ok. Red's point is not a sob story, and its not wrong. I said many many many times, you really need to look at both sides, even if you don't agree with it. You seem to have a problem doing so, and that's why were at odds. When your mature enough to carry the conversation, PM me or something. I don't have time to argue one sided ideals with a person quick to put others down. I'm better than that, and I hope you are too. Have a nice day.
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undamned
Lyus
Hyper Solid Shooting!
Posts: 120
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Post by undamned on Feb 4, 2009 15:55:48 GMT -5
The letter of the law says that all piracy, under all circumstances, is thievery... Well, that's what I've been trying to say, but clearly people like to excuse themselves when it is inconvenient to follow laws. Red's point is not a sob story, and its not wrong. Really? No its not legal ether way... Confusion Get! Canadian authority? Real mature buddy. More like "really awesome" -ud
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Post by Red Hairdo on Feb 4, 2009 16:12:58 GMT -5
I told you, it's a different reality, it's "another world" if I may. I even said it's fine not to know about how it is, because you don't live here. But from the looks of it, I don't think you are open-minded enough to see it... Actually I've spent some time in an impoverished area of Mexico, El Choyudo. It's a tiny fishing village with no running water and only one "store," that I can recall, so I'm aquainted with "poor." "spent some time"? How long is that? That could either mean a week, a month. In other words, even if it was one month long, you spent no time to say anything at all about how it is to live under bad situations. Also that doesn't reach the poverty level we are talking here. You say they got water, that's already too much. Look at Brazil's Northeast states (you won't research it will you?). And in fishing towns people can fish, in other words, eat. Have food. Live poorly, BUT still live. Damn it. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. You're touching and trying to argue on a subject you are ignorant to. And as far as my personal upbringing, I can't say I grew up in poverty. I grew up in a rural farming community and although my parents could afford to buy me video games, they pretty much chose not to (they wanted me to spend my time being more "active"). For years the only video game system I had was an old TRS-80 that a family friend gave to us for Christmas. And you know what? I played the tar out of that thing and loved every minute of it. I later saved enough money and coerced my folks to let me buy a game or two on my own, but even those were severely behind the times, as most NES games were more advanced than what I had. Any gaming beyond that was primarily going to friend's houses who were fortunate enough to have a selection of NES carts or cool Sierra adventure games on the PC I now have the means to buy most of the games I want (although I'm usually behind by at least 1 generation because I'm constantly trying to catch up on games I've missed through the years!), but if you took that away from me, I know how to live with very little and enjoy it, so don't look at me as someone who doesn't understand people from different social classes. Well, that's all good, but I wonder what that has to do with what we are talking about. What restrained you from purchasing/receiving games is absolutely different from what we have discussed so far. Your parents decided not to buy you things. Do I need to point out more?? >____> In other words, that's totally unrelated to what we are speaking of. You said "if you took that away from me", you would still play the games you still have. Ok. So let's suppose "money" was taken away from you. It's not like you don't want to buy the original products, but you can play what you couldn't by i.e. downloading. You don't have money, so you won't buy the original games since you CAN'T, am I wrong? Logically, that means whoever produced the game will not receive anything from you. Yell at me if I am mistaken about that. Now am I? Indeed, I am not. Therefore that means you wouldn't harm whoever produced the game by no means whatsoever if you i.e. downloaded that game you can't buy. It's about good sense and pure logic. Didn't you see Wyrdwad's post above? Look: Actually, there IS something else I can say here... remember, there's a difference between the letter of the law, and its intent. Whenever the letter of the law is followed, with no room for exceptions or special circumstances, there's always bound to be problems. Things become muddled at that point, and the purpose behind the law becomes lost as people begin exploiting loopholes and punishing one another for entirely innocent actions. To be truly just, one must consider the law's intent... and in this case, I believe the law's intent is to protect the profitability of software companies. When that profitability is not at risk, I don't believe the law should even really apply anymore... and for all I know, it doesn't. If a jury were to hear the case of Yakra vs. some angry video game company who didn't like that she purchased a PS2 game on the black market, I wonder if they'd actually find her guilty? I bet with the right lawyer, they wouldn't, as there's no denying the existence of a gray area here... Now, I should tell you too that I know many people who download games they can't afford, but once they get the means to do so, they buy whatever they once obtained illegally. That's what I do myself actually. Heh, funny you should joke about that because Choyudo actually had a handfull of beat up arcade cabs that still ran, outside their one little store. Heh, see, that's just how ignorant you are to this subject. First off, the picture Justin posted is of a "favela". It's something that only exists in Brazil, and proof of that is that the word "favela" has no translation for ANY other language. Other languages also use the word "favela" with a weird accent to refer to it, since the word doesn't actually exist in the vocabulary. Compared to a "favela", any fishing town is plain luxury. "Favelas" are pure chaos. The most world-famous favelas are all located in Rio de Janeiro city, where many people get shot and are murdered every night. Innocent people who live there live in fear of getting shot by a lost bullet. They know everyday may be their last day. there are actually even people that can't live EVEN in a favela, but stay nearby, and are blessed if they find anything in the trash can that their stomachs can endure after eating, if they don't die from disease first. Just to give an example, the PS2 did extremely well over here... Dude, if people are buying PS2's over there, you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Stick to defending the poverty in Canada or at least somewhere you've actually visited. *sigh*, man you distorted and lost the point of what Ranzor said. Why didn't you actually quote the whole thing? You cut the sentence off in the middle and said whatever you wanted using the first, unfinished half. xDD That was somewhat amusing. It's as follows: " Just to give an example, the PS2 did extremely well over here, but I know nobody who buys official games. What does that tell you? That we're a nation of derelicts? I don't think that's the point." I'll complement Ranzor's words. The people, like he later stated, get the PS2s by paying for them for 10 or 20 months and the like. People are broken to buy anything game-wise during that long period. And after that period is over, what do you suggest? Keep paying for another 10 months for each purchased game, and only because the government put ridiculous taxes over the products for its own greedy and corrupt desires? ... Do you actually know HOW corrupt and how much of a circus show our government is? Do you know how this matter is concerned by our own political context? See, you are the one who don't know what you're talking about. Justin and pretty much everyone posting here is much more informed (and open-minded) than you are by a wide margin. If you expect me to sit here and base my entire opinion on places I have "visited" then how am I supposed to take you seriously? ...you need to understand that things are not the same around the world. ...Just because I haven't visited the country, doesn't mean I don't know whats going on. In all honesty, when a person who actually lives there says quite the opposite of what you say, I tend to believe them more. I recommended not speaking authoritatively about places you've never been to because you managed to botch your "facts" about a place you've never been to. If you read my post you'd have seen my quote from ranzor who suposedly lives there and states: So, not only does your statement about people not being able to pool money together not even make sense, but according to ranzor it's rubbish because people are buying PS2's (people he knows, mind you, not just "government officials" or what have you). Hahaha. xD Sorry, but you're hardly the one to talk. I also live in Brazil just like Ranzor. And even Ranzor himself later expanded what he said about that PS2 issue to clarify what you misunderstood. Well... I won't repeat myself, I have said it all above just now. I wasn't trying to prove anything about sob stories with that statement. I just thought it was funny that our Canadian authority on South America couldn't believe that a video arcade could exist in an impoverished area of the world and I just happened to have seen one personally. It may not be the same case for that fishing town, but I know some poor places (not "favelas", mind you) that a few decades ago weren't poor. Like a store that opened in the 80's and was a big hit, but later that region had developed poorly and became ugly and poor as well through the course of time. Such places may have arcades of games that were launched by the time the place was still a hit. Call me out all you want, all I am asking is for you to take a bigger look at the whole picture, figure out where you stand, and then ask yourself if its really worth putting another members opinion down over. The bottom line is, when someone wants to tell me that stealing is ok, I'm simply not going to go along with that. Wherever you live. Clearly you didn't follow what I was getting at in my previous posts. Depending on where you live in the world you may need to be content with little. I've done it, others can to. If you are still unclear about what a "sob story" is, it's a story that pulls the emotions so that you will side with someone. I do have sympathy for people in impoverished areas, but don't tell me that stealing is ok because you don't have money (save my caveat for survival) or because something is inconvenient to obtain. -ud You're wrong. You know why? Because there's no actual stealing there. Like I pointed it out somewhere above, no one is being harmed, even economically. That logical issue I told you before, you know. Also like I stated above, your case is that mommy 'n' daddy restrained you from getting more games; "I've actually done it, others can too". Oh, yeah, that's EXACTLY everyone's case, alright. Again, obviously your case is not an example. As for your last paragraph there, re-reading what I quoted from Wyrdwad above would do you good. (Speaking of which, you just cut off another quote of someone and used it in the way you felt like using. xD Why don't you actually quote the whole sentence? You're making me repeat myself. '<_< Anyway, your quote: The letter of the law says that all piracy, under all circumstances, is thievery... Well, that's what I've been trying to say, but clearly people like to excuse themselves when it is inconvenient to follow laws. Whereas the actual saying is: The letter of the law says that all piracy, under all circumstances, is thievery... but I don't think anyone ever intended that law to be upheld in situations such as the ones described in this thread. And I believe that a system of justice based on the INTENT of the law is much fairer than one based on the LETTER of it... the former is actual justice, whereas the latter is simply bureaucracy. Know to read and use your head.
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Post by Yakra on Feb 4, 2009 17:25:18 GMT -5
.........Basically, I'm not really trying to put forth a sob story in defense of pirating. Its just about whether one would want to order, wait, go argue with customs people, pay a fortune and then play, or just pop down Hall Road, pick up that pirated copy which is the only copy available in the country come back home in 5 minutes, and start playing. I think you summed it up pretty well: if it's inconvenient and/or costly, then steal it. Yep, to speak in strictly legal terms, people steal. But then again this is a country of proud thieves~? :'D Ah.... but I think I forgot to mention the amazing customs people we have here. See, even if law abiding people scrounge together their few pennies (or, to be exact, paisas) and actually do order and import, 99% of the chances are that the kind customs people won't even give you your parcel. So, basically, even ordering online is a big gamble. Unless if, one can afford couriers like FedEx and DHL. And providing that courier people even reach one's city (because I don't think they reach the mountain-himalayan-kingdoms-regions or the simple villages deep in the desert). Importing is a risky chance thing, and not everyone wants to throw their money into the bin of chance just because they're loaded! Basically, I again blame the game companies for the rampant piracy here. If a things not available, people will attempt to get from other means. Then cheaper possibilities will spring up, because all humans love to earn a quick dollar, and such gaps are quickly filled up. And everyone will buy. (Besides, you're ignoring scenarios like what if I want my little nephew and niece to try out Ys too? I do want them too. And whenever I trot over to their house and install it on their computers, install the patch, and go off on my merry way...... why then those little 2-5 year old kids would become great thieves in crime too, no? After all, I would own the copy and not them! An illegal version they'd have! They'd truly deserve to be thrown into jail! ) So really, I don't think you're wrong in calling people who pirate thieves. We are thieves. I am one. When I want my Mana Khemia, or Suikoden, or.... whatever, I will try to get it however way possible, not settle for a dinky arcade. Naturally I would try to get my hands on the original at some point, but then if I can't... well its sad but that means I can't. I shall settle for my cheap copy then! But really........ it appears you're quite refusing to understand the reasons of such circumstances! Its not only the piraters fault! (And I'm not saying all piraters are kind or holy, or poverty stricken or whatever, if at all. Your....... reasoning just seems too 'law-text-book-perfect'. Not looking beyond the word of the law. Everything is a reaction of something!) The fault is both sided! ....Or perhaps even multi-sided! Plus, US laws don't apply here. If anyone wants to catch piraters, then even the president would be thrown in jail. XD By the way, international money orders aren't available here. Nor is Paypal. No little kid I know has credit cards (and most people around me in the 20s have stopped gaming, so the main gaming population is this..... new generation). Forget about international US dollar accounts! And I think I'm the only person who knows about Western Union. For them, seemingly, all paths to ordering online/from abroad is out.(Hm~! So you'd even consider Robin Hood an evil foul thief, ne?) Its just not nice to call people's experiences sob stories. There are always nicer ways to word things. I mean....... I'm certainly not sobbing away, trying earn anyone's sympathy. (Nor are Red Hairdo or Ranzor I'm sure!) I just..... look at the situation and improvise! X'D And then try to explain, when asked why (incase you, or whoever, might like to know why certain people on the opposite side of the world react like the way they do).
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Post by Ranzor on Feb 5, 2009 13:40:02 GMT -5
undamned, you sound like someone who: 1- isn't capable of even imagining other life experiences - other than living in a rich and developed country, whatever social class you're born in - and 2 - thinks that the letter of the law is the word of God. In that context, it's hard to discuss anything.
And just to clarify another thing, the word "stealing" isn't technically correct for that sort of thing, since you don't take something away from somebody else except, maybe, profit. The correct term would be "making illegal copies".
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Post by Incog Neato on Feb 8, 2009 12:26:27 GMT -5
Woah there, people. :O We shouldn't be fostering these type of arguments around here! Seems like everyone is just going in circles with this whole justification of piracy/woe be to pirates/not everyone is rich bit.
I do believe it's time to move on and get back on the subject of Felghana English awesomeness.
Please? ^^
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Post by Incog Neato on Feb 8, 2009 13:19:26 GMT -5
I do believe you just replied to a thread that had been quiet for 3 days in order to tell us that. (: Might have shot yourself in the foot on that one! -Tom That may be so but that won't stop someone from coming in and adding more ughness to it! :O! Afterall, it "ended" still on the piracy and wealth topic. :(
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Post by Justin on Feb 8, 2009 13:33:23 GMT -5
The Canadian Authority is too smart to degrade to petty name calling
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Post by ichigo999 on Feb 8, 2009 15:34:41 GMT -5
um sorry if it was answered already... but just want to make sure. So the patch in NightWolve's site is completely the same with the one floating around, right?
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Post by Red Hairdo on Feb 8, 2009 15:46:24 GMT -5
Supposedly, yeah. But I didn't download it to check it out, so I don't know how secure it is. xD (Though I don't have to; NW already sent me it after I donated him after the leak.) Now, speaking of the supplemental patch, I wonder how it's doing. xD Replacing the mural text is probably much harder than it seems.
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