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Post by memoryjar on Jan 15, 2009 1:42:41 GMT -5
There's only 3 instances where you need to perform it and in all cases, you can perform without pressure. All it takes is trial and error. That doesn't seem very skill based.
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Post by Justin on Jan 15, 2009 8:31:10 GMT -5
Have you read how many people are having problems performing the technique at all, let alone in the 3 places its meant for?
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Post by bahamut on Jan 16, 2009 2:16:51 GMT -5
i had no much difficulty to perform the dash-jump, it's only a 3 button combo in the end, and it's really fast(not as ericcil attack that take forever to start <.<') however i remember using it many times in OiF, not because it was needed but because a dash attack give an extra hit in the combo, so i used it to fight, but i remember it were a little simple there maybe :\
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Post by Justin on Jan 16, 2009 9:45:30 GMT -5
I guess technically, that IS skill... but that's the wrong KIND of skill. Skill in games should come from reaction time, or from choosing to use the right technique at the right moment, or from planning ahead and learning to manipulate patterns to suit your needs. It should NOT come from learning how to execute unnatural-feeling button combinations. That's where most fighting games, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night as Richter, and Ys: The Ark of Napishtim all get it wrong. -Tom Yeah but your coming right out and saying "that kind of skill is wrong", which is totally subjective to personal opinion. I like fighters, and I have no problem pulling off the dash jump. Just because you can't pull the technique off, doesn't mean its bad, or wrong, it means you suck. That's not the games fault, its yours. Practice, practice, practice. Now I will agree, the mechanics are a little misplaced, but its only used in like 5 situations. Not a big deal imo. Skill is skill, however you want to categorize it is up to you. There are games I can't play, and its because my skill is lacking. Take tactical RPG's for example, as I am just terrible at them. I don't hate them for it, I just can't play them. Its my problem, not the games. You don't see me saying "Final Fantasy Tactics blows because I can't beat it". Game has sold millions, so I would look like a conceded ass.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jan 16, 2009 11:53:44 GMT -5
Wow, first response on the new keyboard! It's cheap, lightweight and it feels great! So anyway, ^_^ I have to disagree with wyrdwad as well. It's an easy system of button combinations -- at least NONE of the games are asking you to "rotate" or "quarter"/"half" "circle" or perform a *multitude* of timed, unorthodox and generally, uncomfortable directional and other button patterns (with and without combinations) to perform simple moves. Yes, they could've been handled better, but I think that AoN would be even MORE boring without the timed button-presses to throw curveballs at the player. Think about it! The world of Napishtim is quite barren, with so few enemies, so few chests, and so very few jumps! They simply HAD TO shake things up a little!
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Post by Justin on Jan 16, 2009 16:12:37 GMT -5
You..... have a point there. I never really looked at it that way, but I can totally see where your coming from.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jan 16, 2009 19:07:25 GMT -5
Exactly -- Falcom got it right with Felghana! It's just that the Felghana engine, wouldn't exactly work in Napishtim (unless the super dash is included!) due to the fact that Napishtim is quite barren and somewhat unbalanced in terms of levels. With Felghana, you not only have more to see and more to do, you have more to fight, the enemies have better A.I., and just in general, the game is bigger and doesn't feel like a gigantic walk-fest. For that matter, Napishtim was nothing more than a gigantic fetch-quest for a good half of the game!! Why the HELL should I have to repeat the Ruins of Amnesia three times, most major areas twice (including sub-boss rooms), while overpowering the hell out of boring "I can has 1 HP? LOL!" enemies.
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Post by Justin on Jan 16, 2009 20:40:37 GMT -5
I always thought OiF was too easy. Is there a Hard mode at all?
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jan 16, 2009 20:49:49 GMT -5
Yes. There's Hard, Very Hard, Nightmare, and Inferno. I'm still on Inferno...
Oh yeah, my computer died. So now I'll have to start all over again... ~_~
// There are also two hidden bosses in the game, but they're only available to those of us who have mastered Nightmare and/or Inferno!
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Post by bahamut on Jan 16, 2009 22:17:16 GMT -5
i've finished OiF with nightmare level, but never seen other bosses, or inferno level, maybe there's an update that i have not done??? O_ò
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Post by Justin on Jan 17, 2009 1:40:11 GMT -5
It would be great if a save file could be contributed in some fashion. I don't want to jam through the game on normal again, just to be able to play it on hard.
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Post by bahamut on Jan 17, 2009 18:38:59 GMT -5
well, on this i agree with wyrdwad, napishtim has the two most simple ending bosses in the history of the games, i've killed the last boss at second time(the first time i forgot to equip healing item -.-'), and i haven't used the seed for life/power/defense since i was playing in normal and the game could have become too simple... and i agree that there are too much healing object in the game, they are really too much
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Post by Justin on Jan 17, 2009 19:48:54 GMT -5
Well to be fair, most Ys games are easy, but I found Felghana really easy. Didn't know Deuce's patch made all those options available, so I'll have to give it a go.
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Post by Justin on Jan 17, 2009 22:48:56 GMT -5
Yeah man, I think I blew threw Ys VI underleveled, because I remember having to grind for a few days to catch up at the end. To counteract this from happening, I think I overleveled in OiF, or I don't know, maybe I am an Ys ninja Ether way, I remember it being pretty easy, with Ys III SNES being the hardest still imo. I have yet to jam on YsO.
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Post by Justin on Jan 17, 2009 22:55:10 GMT -5
Oh really??? Hopefully Team DoppinWyrd will make it so the harder difficulties are accessible right away
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Post by Victor Delacroix on Jan 31, 2009 5:27:03 GMT -5
I know one thing: Napishtim's final bosses were far too easy when I maxed all my swords and leveled myself up to level 51 on the standard difficulty. A few Brilante shots were simply too much for Ernst, I added a few quick slashes and he was undone before I had the chance to hear his theme music in whole The major difference between OiF and the Ark was allowance of item use during boss fights. When having the recommended level and enough aggressiveness, you simply rush in, heal if needed, and you didn't really have to worry about Ark's bosses to kill you - you didn't even need to learn their patterns, really. Felghana? Quite a different matter due to prohibition of item use when combatting bosses. That basically forced the player to learn the adversaries' attack patterns and fight more cautiously. No more kamikaaazeeeeee! tactics... As for the "dash jump" itself, to me it was a b**ch of a move to learn. But as for mouse/keyboard, I found a simple way. I tap the directional key and quickly afterwards, both of the mouse buttons almoust simultaneously. Works most of the time.
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Post by Justin on Jan 31, 2009 13:16:27 GMT -5
You played with a Mouse and Keyboard?? I tip my hat to you good sir, that is impressive indeed.
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Post by Victor Delacroix on Jan 31, 2009 16:50:25 GMT -5
I don't have a pad where I live now, I have to buy one.
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Post by xcalibar on Mar 21, 2009 16:16:46 GMT -5
I read through the topic... I thought everyone uses keyboard and mouse Always started Ys games on the hardest difficulty available... [maybe because my first Ys game was the SMS Ys 1...] Much more rewarding to struggle through the bosses, although I'm concerned about the name Inferno mode for OiF, although Nightmare is always fun lol Anyways, the dash jump is awesome in this game. Sure, I hated it like everyone else at first... [well most?] But, soon as I was forced to learn it [to get the stupid Capla Water lol], now my travel time is reduced by 1/3 lol as Adol cuts through the air And lastly : Made a video showing off a couple secret/glitch/tips I discovered on my first play through Napishtim, including dash jump running vs the standing dash jump (I'm saddened to hear I can't take my dash jump skills to OiF...) : HD Mode : www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ-2FZMF1rc&fmt=22P.S. : if you watch in HD Mode note that I'm using the ENBseries graphics filter...
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Post by Red Hairdo on Mar 21, 2009 16:50:24 GMT -5
I read through the topic... I thought everyone uses keyboard and mouse Always started Ys games on the hardest difficulty available... [maybe because my first Ys game was the SMS Ys 1...] Much more rewarding to struggle through the bosses, although I'm concerned about the name Inferno mode for OiF, although Nightmare is always fun lol Anyways, the dash jump is awesome in this game. Sure, I hated it like everyone else at first... [well most?] But, soon as I was forced to learn it [to get the stupid Capla Water lol], now my travel time is reduced by 1/3 lol as Adol cuts through the air And lastly : Made a video showing off a couple secret/glitch/tips I discovered on my first play through Napishtim, including dash jump running vs the standing dash jump (I'm saddened to hear I can't take my dash jump skills to OiF...) : HD Mode : www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ-2FZMF1rc&fmt=22P.S. : if you watch in HD Mode note that I'm using the ENBseries graphics filter... Hm, so you also know about the "Jump Slash Chain" how I like to call it. But I can see it's different from the PSP version: in the PSP version, you can't do that non-stop except with Livart (or Long Sword), and it only works in certain screens, it's very odd. You can somewhat bypass that though by equipping the Heavy Belt and stay with the "slow" status that not only makes you slower, but jump less high, therefore you can do the "Jump Slash Chain" with any sword in any screen, even in the PSP version. Not sure about the PS2 version. As for the PC version, I plan on testing these things thoroughly with most available versions, because I'm sure things will work differently among themselves. (There are not only the Limited, Standard and Vista versions to test, but also all their variants) Also what you did at 1:20, 4:23, 6:19 and 6:45 can't be done in the PSP version as well. xD I remember trying that trick (it works in every Ys 3D PC game). I find "Wall-Hogging" to be a fitting name for it. ... Also what the hell?? o__o' That bug at 2:30~3:00 must also be PC exclusive... that was insane! xDD By the way, I'm curious: which version were you playing? If the game was in english, that means it can only be 1 of 3 versions. Anyway, thanks for sharing that, it surely was interesting. xD (Also I did record all the Ys VI PSP bugs, but I'm saving them for an ultimate Ys series in-game bugs video I'm doing with MP83 and kiyuki, so they aren't uploaded yet. It will still take some months.)
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