|
Post by gamesbloke on Dec 29, 2009 21:30:02 GMT -5
Slightly off topic but I would love to see an Ys fighter based on either the Dissidia engine or the Jump Ultimate Stars engine on NDS...
JUS just rocked!
I also love the Guilty Gear series and think that the game engine/styling would suit the Ys art very well!
Good subject, for me as I love 2d fighting of all kinds!
Love the link incidentally!! Good stuff!
|
|
|
Post by knightofancient on Dec 29, 2009 21:38:51 GMT -5
And since it will be online or I think it will based on the info I've been reading, we'll be able to challenge each other to duels. : ) Maybe there is even an ALOY Vs. Tournament in our future at some point. : 0 -Thomas Yup that will be fun especially if up to 4 players can be in the arena. Only way we at alloy can play with eachother is if the multiplayer does not run though adhoc, but runs through the infrastructure setting on the PSP. If that is even possible. If its adhoc then ahh. But there is another possibility *stares at xlink kai*.
|
|
|
Post by Este on Jan 13, 2010 19:00:55 GMT -5
This looks like it could be A LOT of fun. I'm guessing no release date yet?
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Jan 13, 2010 19:29:18 GMT -5
I think it was said it'll likely get released on May or so, no?
|
|
|
Post by knightofancient on Jan 13, 2010 19:58:18 GMT -5
Also, I hope that it gets picked up by a Publisher for a U.S. release. *Looks at XSeed or Atlus*
|
|
|
Post by knightofancient on Jan 13, 2010 23:35:27 GMT -5
True. But my optimism is in the way.
|
|
|
Post by schlagwerk on Jan 14, 2010 14:09:18 GMT -5
The Falcom fanboy in me can't wait for Ys vs The Legend of Heroes while the 2D fighting game player in me knows it'll suck.
I have little tolerance for poor balance, silly infinites (hi Dissidia), shallow combat, or generally broken systems in versus games. I've yet to see an arena fighter that I can take seriously as a fighting game.
Or what's worse is that fighting games are made or broken by the people you play with.. well Ys is already obscure enough, Legend of Heroes moreso. The game will have to be beyond amazingly awesome for me to get any other locals to play it.
and yet the Falcom fanboy in me again pipes up "but it's Falcom! you know they wouldn't make this game unless they had the drive to make it good" shut up, inner fanboy
|
|
|
Post by schlagwerk on Jan 14, 2010 18:16:01 GMT -5
Besides, since I hate fighting games with ever fiber of my being, but rather enjoy arena fighters, I sincerely HOPE that this game CAN'T be taken seriously as a fighting game! Well I'll explain why I like to be able to take fighting games seriously, but after you completely denouncing them it'd be like anyone trying to explain the artistic merits of rap to me. In multiplayer games you have the two ends of the spectrum: luck, and skill. Luck is like winning at Yahtzee, Monopoly, or Risk (mostly). Skill is winning in fighting games, fpseseses, and rtseseses. Well I suck at fps and rts (minus Star Craft because it outright rewards speed), so fighting games are my 95% skill based multiplayer game of choice. To me there is nothing more rewarding than knowing you won because of your own ability to out perform your opponent. You out read their moves, you performed your attacks right, maybe you even played the game's underlying systems better than they did. That's cool in my book. Now for every broken mechanic in a versus game it's like the game wasn't decided by your own skill, but a little bit more by luck. It makes loses more frustrating and victories more shallow. For every unbalanced character, it limits your freedom of choice because ultimately you'll face people Playing To Win. Like how most top-level SF3 3rd Strike matches are Ken, Chun Li, Yun or Marvel vs Capcom 2 is some flavor of Magneto, Storm, Sentinel. Some people play arena fighters as real fighting games and I think they're daft! Especially ones who are playing Smash Bros or Naruto Clash of the Ninja 1 on 1 instead of with 4 players. I can still play arena fighters for fun, but since I've started seriously getting into fighting games, the little inconsistencies of how luck undermines skill stand out to me more. And like I said, Ys & Legend of Heroes are obscure enough as is. If I don't have people to play against, then multiplayer games are a bummer. If the game can't be taken at some level of seriousness, then I'm gonna have problems getting locals to play. And if you think you can still have fun if Falcom screws up and this game is pretty broken, then I can't wait to be the first one to trap you in Dogi's Wall Crusher infinite repeatedly and see if yer still having fun Btw, I'm not all serious business about fighting games. There are some pretty silly, perfectly playable ones out there that I have a lot of fun with. Youtube "Jackie Chan's Fists of Fire" sometime. What gets me is when luck undermines skill in what should be a skill based genre. Hell. That's like adding dice rolls to music games!
|
|
|
Post by schlagwerk on Jan 14, 2010 19:05:50 GMT -5
So yeah... I agree with you on luck vs. skill, but I see traditional fighting games as being more about luck (which is part of why I don't like them), and arena fighting games as being more about skill. It's the exact opposite of what you're describing! When you start learning about fighting games, you find out that it's not paper, rock, scissors-style luck. Most of the belief that it's luck comes from the fact that you think your opponent, whether human or computer, is acting 100% random. That there is no way you can read or predict what they're gonna do. And that's far from the case. Just to point out in Power Stone 2: What do you think makes items appear? What do you think controls what item it'll be when it appears? Luck. Even if it doesn't effect the outcome as much as items in Smash Bros, it can still effect the outcome and isn't a variable completely under any of the players' control. And the fighting game player in me still worries about balance, too. I don't want another game filled with Zidane's multiple infinites or Exdeath's freakin' reflect (though at least the latter takes skill to abuse). The Falcom fan in me is saying not to worry, that Falcom is taking the game hardcore serious and won't release anything broken.. but the inner Falcom fan has known to get a bit blind at times. He did buy and play through Ys I&II DS after all. EDIT: yeah I like yer usage of randomness instead of luck, too.
|
|
|
Post by schlagwerk on Jan 14, 2010 19:55:44 GMT -5
Boy we got off on a tangent on luck when it was original my trying to explain why I enjoy fighting games: that they are very skill based, and very focused on it being you versus your single, (preferably) human opponent, "2 men enter. 1 has to pay another quarter"-style.
As for all the non-fighting game examples you give. Games being about luck vs skill isn't black and white. Games can include any balance in between. Magic is a good example, as you pointed out. Still very skill based, but there is luck to it. People can be quoted saying they lost matches just due to a bad shuffle. It's part of the game. (though Pokemon TCG would frustrate me due to its heavy reliance on coin flips)
My concern still stands that balancing a good multiplayer versus game is a tough science. It's made worse by the fact that invariably the community will find stuff out about the game that the developers could never dream of. So I'm hoping that Falcom has their heads on straight as they work on Ys vs LoH, do their best, and produce another exemplary Falcom game.
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Jan 14, 2010 21:38:10 GMT -5
I can't speak for the other Arena Fighters brought up here, but I can assure Super Smash Bros. and Super Smash Bros. Melee are games that completely rely on the player's own ability, skill and knowledge.
First of all, for any decent tournament you apply to, the rules are set in a way luck is completely removed. Such as removal of items. The thing is, Smash Bros. is flexible enough so that you can CHOOSE whether you want to play it as a serious fighter or as just some party game, unlike most, if not all, 2D fighters.
Also, Wyrd, even getting shot by an ARWING is 100% the player's own fault: the spaceship appears at exactly the same time each time you go to the stage, and also in the same position. (By the way, though, I should mention in certain rule sets the "Corneria" stage is removed, and "Venom" is removed in pretty much any rule set.) Plus they only add depth to it all: you may use it to your advantage in many ways, as well as your opponent: Roy's Counter return a blow 1.5 times stronger, so you can counter the shot and deal a pretty big damage if the opponent falls prrey to it (you can set him up as well); both Roy's and Marth's counters also interferes with the shot's direction, so you can "aim" the very shot on the opponent cif you're up to it (the resulting final direction depends on the projectile's original direction); Ness can attempt to absorb the shots to recover HP, though that has risks in itself (the oppponent won't stand still doing nothing, for example); many characters can reflect it (technically everyone if you have the timing of a God); you can grab and use the opponent as a shield; you can fill up Mr. Game & Watch's bucket with them; etc.. The possibilities are too many.
Actually, I have yet to see not only a fighting game, but also a GAME in general that can actually put a player's skill to test more than Super Smash Bros. Melee. However, only those who went pro (and were actually good) and have had years of experience in it will know this. (And I'm not sure if it matters, but yes, I also play 2D fighters a lot.)
As for Ys vs. Sora no Kiseki, I really don't know how it will turn out. What I'm SURE of is that I will love it. xD Be it for serious, competitive gaming or be it for casual gaming: I'll LOVE it regardlessly. xD
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Jan 14, 2010 22:00:01 GMT -5
I KNEW you were going to mention the Arwing's timing. xD And technically, you're right... but at the same time, (A) expecting players to keep track of time during a battle is a bit excessive IMHO You don't have to keep track on the time if you don't want to: when the ARWING approaches, you can hear a "wooosh"-y sound, and if you are shot at from the background, there is a considerable time gap between the sound and the moment the shot connects. , and (B) it's still a completely outside influence; i.e. the shots aren't originating from any player, nor from an item used by any player. And B is what I don't like: if I get hit during a Smash Bros. match, I want to get hit by another player, or an item used by another player. I do NOT want to get hit by an environmental obstacle... because when that happens, no other player got the kill on me; instead, the GAME killed me. And that just plain sucks. Not if the opponent set you up. xD
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Jan 14, 2010 22:19:38 GMT -5
Well, there's nothing more I can say, then. xD Though, that's one of the reasons Corneria isn't included in all rule sets anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Este on Jan 15, 2010 0:55:33 GMT -5
I'm just gonna chime in here and say that I only hope the characters are extremely balanced. Don't get me wrong, if I like a character I'm going to use them no matter how bad they suck (like in SSBM, I only used roy and got damn good with him too... to the point where people had to team up on me at conventions to bring me down) but I would like to see no character(s) be above and beyond the rest. I'm only afraid I'm going to get into a rut using Adol and Geis solely, like I have been with Ys 7 All Geis had to do was knock the hell out of Admiral Agares to get onto my favs list... that and be totally awesome.
|
|
|
Post by Mutagene on Jan 15, 2010 8:56:25 GMT -5
And they WILL be insanely fun to play as.
|
|
Michichan
Lyus
Of course I know what I'm doing.
Posts: 129
|
Post by Michichan on Feb 3, 2010 21:17:23 GMT -5
All I can say is...I want to play it, either way, lol. It would be fun to use the PS3 adhoc server and play people from the forums when it comes out. My only wish is that they had room to put in some other games in too...I'd really love some Popful Mail, lol. I'd totally main Dark Fact, Mail, and Dela from Brandish.
|
|
|
Post by Darker Fact on Mar 11, 2010 3:04:36 GMT -5
www.rpgfan.com/news/2010/91.htmlYs VS Sora No Kiseki is due out in Japan on July 29th for the PSP. First I heard about it was at the above link, but it does look rather interesting- if nothing else the game's soundtrack should be excellent.
|
|
|
Post by schlagwerk on Mar 11, 2010 12:23:15 GMT -5
Awh, was hoping for some actual gameplay info/video finally..
|
|
|
Post by Incog Neato on May 19, 2010 20:30:55 GMT -5
Not sure what to think about the versus game.
When will Falcom show lots of gameplay? TT
|
|
|
Post by Incog Neato on May 19, 2010 23:52:37 GMT -5
I'm not all that big into fighting games though unless it's something like Smash Bros. because I can play like a complete doofus with friends. (CURRY BATTLES!!)
I doubt I'll get the same luxury and experience with this. :B
I hope they put a playable Pikkard in the game! I already see the (Mona)2 thing's in it as well as little animal things from Xanadu or something? Not sure what role they play. I only gave the character pages a brief look and didn't read much. ^^;
Also, why does Elena look to be more useful in this than in Felghana!?
|
|