Post by cataractblue on Jan 27, 2010 1:59:04 GMT -5
Actually, it causes a lot of problems. But the game can be beaten without the double jump!
(If this is all old news, feel free to disregard the 2000+ words below.)
Here's the best proof I could pull from just a screenshot -- my inventory screen with the Lotus Hammer from Genos Island, but without the stone tablet:
(Inferno difficulty, no less!)
Thanks to this thread -> seldane.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ysf&action=display&thread=3814 for the inspiration (and more importantly the techniques used.)
Playthrough notes:
-Killing the enemies in Elderm at the start of the game doesn't net nearly as much experience as you'd think. Even at level 4 each kill gives just a fraction of a level, and any damage taken will kill Adol several times over. To keep enemies from counterattacking, I use the time-honored beat-em-up strategy of landing the first two hits of the basic ground combo, pausing, then repeating the first two hits ad nauseum.
-I swiped the pot-o'-gold at the top of the vertical stairshaft near the Tigray Quarry entrance, then proceeded to buy new equipment right away. Dularn struggled to hit for over 4 damage, though Ellefale's attacks still hurt pretty bad. Also snagged Bob's pendant, but Aida won't acknowledge that you're carrying it if you talk to her.
-In the Illburns Ruins, the room that locks you in with a half-dozen Barls (the small red lizards) is a great spot to amass experience and gold. A bit riskier is the mixed room of Barls and Seeans (teleporting mages) later on.
-There's a spot in the Ruins where you normally light a torch, then make an extended jump with the Wind Arts to reach a door. This...doesn't seem to be reachable with jump-slash tricks, even with boost. I tried for 10 minutes or so before giving up. The enemies in the room beyond are too strong to deal with at the time being anyway, though.
-Once I had 3300 gold and 60 Raval (to trade with Antonio) stocked, I bought new equipment again. Chester and Guilen both struggled to do over 8 damage per hit, so I was able to attack recklessly and get a big EXP multiplier against both of them.
-Gyalva, on the other hand, will still dish out 70-110 damage per hit. The main challenge is dodging its flame breath when cornered (all the tiles facing spikes-up).
-After the Zone of Lava, Adol's finally strong to hit the enemies in Elderm for more than 1 damage point! I cleared out the enemies near the entrance a few times and jumped from level 19 to 23 in minutes, then 26 by the next save point. Continuing on, Dularn was a no-show (no Ligaty fight...yet), and talking to Berhard, he mentions that Dogi's gone off somewhere but should back soon. I reached the point where'd you'd normally meet up with Dogi, but he wasn't there either.
(Since it's possible to acquire the double jump, then backtrack to Elderm out-of-sequence while still playing "normally" it's understandable why Berhard would have dialog specifically for the situation.)
-I proceeded to slaughter some Mon-Jigels (big flying purple insects) for excessive amounts of EXP/gold/Raval, then warped back to Redmont for some new equipment (partially paid for by trading 200 more Raval) to Antonio. Off to the Abandoned Mines*...12 levels above where I left the Zone of Lava!
*after a brief escort mission.
-Adol "accidentally" forgets to inspect that giant mural and proceeds onward, reaching the room just before the final save point and boss...but misses one of the final jumps and lands in an enemy mob. Using boost, the enemies get wiped out in seconds with Adol 100% unscathed -- but the real problem is that this pit requires either the double jump or boost to escape!
...oops. Back to the last save point we go!
(The pit in question: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCwTsvD8qM#t=5m50s -- not my video. The jump I was originally trying to make is from the lower of the two same-width platforms to the one directly overhead, by jumping out diagonally against the wall while boost-slash-climbing, then using the Wind Arts to steer Adol back around to the upper platform. Probably the toughest jump required in a no-double-jump game.)
-Returning to the same room, I botch the same jump and fall down again, but this time I let the enemies smack Adol around a bit to get the boost gauge rising, then kill them off (carefully avoiding any healing item drops) and boost-slash-climb the wall up, then boost-slash-climb-spin up to the top platform...
...after 20 straight minutes of missing the jump, waiting for the boost gauge to refill, climbing out of the pit, then waiting for the gauge to refill AGAIN before attempting (and missing) the same jump.
In the end, I edged to the extreme right side of the lower platform (so Adol can jump straight up and get "pushed" around the edge of the upper platform rather than jump diagonally out and around), then did a boosted jumping forward-slash, forward-slash, neutral slash, forward-slash, charged Wind Arts spin to reach the upper platform.
By the way, there's still the jump from the upper platform to the ledge with the staircase, which dumps you right back into the same pit if you mess up.
-Istersiva is a pushover with the fourth-tier weapons and armor equipped. Even the "glow green and ram Adol" attack that does 100+ damage in Nightmare Boss Rush hits for less than 30 here in Inferno. Plus, Adol can actually inflict heavy damage even when its weak point isn't exposed.
-Back in town, Adol somehow convinces Edgar that he actually followed instructions and checked out that mural...
(What happens if you actually inspect the mural, then head back and talk to Edgar before finishing the dungeon, anyway?)
-Anyway, I took care of the Elena escort mission and warped back to Elderm. The Ligaty battle is practically over before it begins as Adol hits for 100+ damage. Picked up the Earth Ring, then carefully made it across the icy catwalks without falling (no stone shoes required!) and proceeded to slip, slide, and spin to the Icebound Cave.
Oh, and I fell into that one spike pit near the end like I always do. It does something like 170 damage on Inferno.
-Gildias is the toughest boss yet by far. You can't overpower Adol with expensive equipment you shouldn't have access to yet, or find stronger enemies to grind for experience. Even slightly overleveled, I was taking 130-140 damage per hit, which meant death in two hits.
A side note: when you guard an attack with the Earth Arts, it depletes even more MP and delays the recharge (you see the consumed part of the MP bar "drain", then refill). If you guard with the last of your MP, damage is reduced to 25% instead of fully negated. In this fight, just being "grazed" repeatedly can kill!
-On to Valestine. At this point any level advantage I had from heading to Elderm early was negated (I was at 31 before starting the Abandoned Mines, yet only 33 upon entering the castle). The spear-spikes in the room before the first indoor save point (before Death Faleon) kill instantly, and the enemies do 60 to 110 damage per hit. Death Faleon himself struggles to hit for more than 30 damage, though. Go figure.
(I did level up twice and snag the Battle Armor before taking him on, though.)
Z.Z. Schutilger was a bit tougher, although once again, the regular enemies in the area hit twice as hard.
Zirduros was actually extremely easy, as I amassed a couple extra levels from the slime enemies in the next room over, making Adol borderline invincible once again...
...until those armored knights in the Clock Tower started smacking him for 150+ damage. Jumping downthurst makes short work of them, though.
The Clock Tower is extremely tough without the double jump for a number of reasons:
(1) Lots of jumps on and off of platforms that cycle up and down. You don't need more height than a "normal" extended jump+wind slash, but the peak has to coincide perfectly with the platform in question being at its lowest (or highest) point. Starting a charged wind slash on the ground and then jumping works sometimes when jumping onto a platform.
(2) Delay when landing from a wind slash. Specifically when you land on a rotating gear and get skewered on some spears.
(3) The set of four "pulley blocks" you need to cross to reach the first statue. My solution was to align the four blocks with the leftmost slightly above the ledge with the exit door (making the second-from-left slightly below), third further below (fourth furthest above). Then jump from third->second->exit ledge->first->fourth->statue ledge.
(4) The second or third room requires a boost-slash-wallclimb from the final lift block to the exit door.
(5) Rhymes with "Pester". First half of the fight is easy, if a bit tedious (a dozen loops of dodging 4 shots, then a 360-degree attack, then the big stab). The stab attack can be evaded with a single jump but guarding against it with the Earth Arts (or activating boost and passing straight through it) is far safer. Once he hits 2625 HP it's a free-for-all.
-Aaaaand finally on to Genos Island. Dularn was fairly easy to deal with at level 45 (the swords do around 35 damage each).
Since the tougher enemies were dealing 100-200 damage per hit even with the Raval equipment, I just went straight for Garland, using mirrors and amulets to stay alive.
Random energy orbs spawning on top of Adol for 130 damage = bad. That said I still managed to take out Garland, gaining multiple levels in the process. To Galvaran!
Now for the bad news:
(0) Leveling up enough to stand a chance (I'd say 51 with the revival necklace, 52 or 53 without) requires fighting enemies that are stronger than most bosses. The longer you can hold a 99-hit chain without needing to stop and heal or warp, the better.
(Plan on stopping to heal and warping back to the save point a lot.)
(1) Adol can't double-jump fireball Galvaran at the start of the fight to expose his eye like normal.
(2) Adol's normal jump doesn't clear Galvaran's flamethrower. You've got to either run between the gaps in the flames (but sometimes there are no gaps) or do an extended jump-slash over it every time.
(3) Adol's normal jump doesn't clear the scatter from Galvaran's ice blast, even if he lands on the ice platform. Have to do an extended jump-slash and land on the platform.
(4) If Galvaran follows the ice attack with the energy orbs, Adol has to back off and dodge.
(5) Galvaran's sword stamp is considerably tougher to dodge without a double jump.
(6) When (if?) the second phase of the fight starts, Adol can barely graze Galvaran's hands during his MP drain.
(7) Galvaran's full assault (spherical explosion + fallout, scrolling lasers, flamethrower, and energy orbs simultaneously) is basically undodgeable. If you have to get hit by something, it should be the scrolling lasers as those knock Adol down, keeping him temporarily invincible.
(8) Without the extra damage usually landed during the MP drain, it's very difficult to counter the 3x hand stamp for enough to force him into using the ice spikes before another cycle of near-unavoidable attacks begins.
(9) You can't jump/hover over the ice spikes. (They do 250+ damage, by the way.) Using the Earth Arts to guard, your MP will fully depleted, resulting in being "grazed" for 60-70 damage per hit. Charged Earth Arts followed by boost activation invincibility is just enough to escape alive, though.
The good news...is...um..., well, if you survive Galvaran, you finally get your double jump! Put it to good use against that black Pikkard!
---
So, in conclusion:
-Overpowered equipment is overpowered.
-Lack of double jump is surprisingly a non-factor against bosses not named Death Faleon (due to the projectile punch + flame scatter) or Galvaran (due to, well, everything.)
-Regular enemies hit twice as hard as bosses not named Ellefale, Gyalva, Gildias, or Galvaran.
-Things you shouldn't fall into: the pit near the end of the Abandoned Mines save point, the spikes right before the Icebound Cave save point, and the spears right before the Death Faleon save point. A pattern begins to emerge...
-Just how did Elena manage to scale the Clock Tower by herself, anyway!?!
(If this is all old news, feel free to disregard the 2000+ words below.)
Here's the best proof I could pull from just a screenshot -- my inventory screen with the Lotus Hammer from Genos Island, but without the stone tablet:
(Inferno difficulty, no less!)
Thanks to this thread -> seldane.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ysf&action=display&thread=3814 for the inspiration (and more importantly the techniques used.)
Playthrough notes:
-Killing the enemies in Elderm at the start of the game doesn't net nearly as much experience as you'd think. Even at level 4 each kill gives just a fraction of a level, and any damage taken will kill Adol several times over. To keep enemies from counterattacking, I use the time-honored beat-em-up strategy of landing the first two hits of the basic ground combo, pausing, then repeating the first two hits ad nauseum.
-I swiped the pot-o'-gold at the top of the vertical stairshaft near the Tigray Quarry entrance, then proceeded to buy new equipment right away. Dularn struggled to hit for over 4 damage, though Ellefale's attacks still hurt pretty bad. Also snagged Bob's pendant, but Aida won't acknowledge that you're carrying it if you talk to her.
-In the Illburns Ruins, the room that locks you in with a half-dozen Barls (the small red lizards) is a great spot to amass experience and gold. A bit riskier is the mixed room of Barls and Seeans (teleporting mages) later on.
-There's a spot in the Ruins where you normally light a torch, then make an extended jump with the Wind Arts to reach a door. This...doesn't seem to be reachable with jump-slash tricks, even with boost. I tried for 10 minutes or so before giving up. The enemies in the room beyond are too strong to deal with at the time being anyway, though.
-Once I had 3300 gold and 60 Raval (to trade with Antonio) stocked, I bought new equipment again. Chester and Guilen both struggled to do over 8 damage per hit, so I was able to attack recklessly and get a big EXP multiplier against both of them.
-Gyalva, on the other hand, will still dish out 70-110 damage per hit. The main challenge is dodging its flame breath when cornered (all the tiles facing spikes-up).
-After the Zone of Lava, Adol's finally strong to hit the enemies in Elderm for more than 1 damage point! I cleared out the enemies near the entrance a few times and jumped from level 19 to 23 in minutes, then 26 by the next save point. Continuing on, Dularn was a no-show (no Ligaty fight...yet), and talking to Berhard, he mentions that Dogi's gone off somewhere but should back soon. I reached the point where'd you'd normally meet up with Dogi, but he wasn't there either.
(Since it's possible to acquire the double jump, then backtrack to Elderm out-of-sequence while still playing "normally" it's understandable why Berhard would have dialog specifically for the situation.)
-I proceeded to slaughter some Mon-Jigels (big flying purple insects) for excessive amounts of EXP/gold/Raval, then warped back to Redmont for some new equipment (partially paid for by trading 200 more Raval) to Antonio. Off to the Abandoned Mines*...12 levels above where I left the Zone of Lava!
*after a brief escort mission.
-Adol "accidentally" forgets to inspect that giant mural and proceeds onward, reaching the room just before the final save point and boss...but misses one of the final jumps and lands in an enemy mob. Using boost, the enemies get wiped out in seconds with Adol 100% unscathed -- but the real problem is that this pit requires either the double jump or boost to escape!
...oops. Back to the last save point we go!
(The pit in question: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCwTsvD8qM#t=5m50s -- not my video. The jump I was originally trying to make is from the lower of the two same-width platforms to the one directly overhead, by jumping out diagonally against the wall while boost-slash-climbing, then using the Wind Arts to steer Adol back around to the upper platform. Probably the toughest jump required in a no-double-jump game.)
-Returning to the same room, I botch the same jump and fall down again, but this time I let the enemies smack Adol around a bit to get the boost gauge rising, then kill them off (carefully avoiding any healing item drops) and boost-slash-climb the wall up, then boost-slash-climb-spin up to the top platform...
...after 20 straight minutes of missing the jump, waiting for the boost gauge to refill, climbing out of the pit, then waiting for the gauge to refill AGAIN before attempting (and missing) the same jump.
In the end, I edged to the extreme right side of the lower platform (so Adol can jump straight up and get "pushed" around the edge of the upper platform rather than jump diagonally out and around), then did a boosted jumping forward-slash, forward-slash, neutral slash, forward-slash, charged Wind Arts spin to reach the upper platform.
By the way, there's still the jump from the upper platform to the ledge with the staircase, which dumps you right back into the same pit if you mess up.
-Istersiva is a pushover with the fourth-tier weapons and armor equipped. Even the "glow green and ram Adol" attack that does 100+ damage in Nightmare Boss Rush hits for less than 30 here in Inferno. Plus, Adol can actually inflict heavy damage even when its weak point isn't exposed.
-Back in town, Adol somehow convinces Edgar that he actually followed instructions and checked out that mural...
(What happens if you actually inspect the mural, then head back and talk to Edgar before finishing the dungeon, anyway?)
-Anyway, I took care of the Elena escort mission and warped back to Elderm. The Ligaty battle is practically over before it begins as Adol hits for 100+ damage. Picked up the Earth Ring, then carefully made it across the icy catwalks without falling (no stone shoes required!) and proceeded to slip, slide, and spin to the Icebound Cave.
Oh, and I fell into that one spike pit near the end like I always do. It does something like 170 damage on Inferno.
-Gildias is the toughest boss yet by far. You can't overpower Adol with expensive equipment you shouldn't have access to yet, or find stronger enemies to grind for experience. Even slightly overleveled, I was taking 130-140 damage per hit, which meant death in two hits.
A side note: when you guard an attack with the Earth Arts, it depletes even more MP and delays the recharge (you see the consumed part of the MP bar "drain", then refill). If you guard with the last of your MP, damage is reduced to 25% instead of fully negated. In this fight, just being "grazed" repeatedly can kill!
-On to Valestine. At this point any level advantage I had from heading to Elderm early was negated (I was at 31 before starting the Abandoned Mines, yet only 33 upon entering the castle). The spear-spikes in the room before the first indoor save point (before Death Faleon) kill instantly, and the enemies do 60 to 110 damage per hit. Death Faleon himself struggles to hit for more than 30 damage, though. Go figure.
(I did level up twice and snag the Battle Armor before taking him on, though.)
Z.Z. Schutilger was a bit tougher, although once again, the regular enemies in the area hit twice as hard.
Zirduros was actually extremely easy, as I amassed a couple extra levels from the slime enemies in the next room over, making Adol borderline invincible once again...
...until those armored knights in the Clock Tower started smacking him for 150+ damage. Jumping downthurst makes short work of them, though.
The Clock Tower is extremely tough without the double jump for a number of reasons:
(1) Lots of jumps on and off of platforms that cycle up and down. You don't need more height than a "normal" extended jump+wind slash, but the peak has to coincide perfectly with the platform in question being at its lowest (or highest) point. Starting a charged wind slash on the ground and then jumping works sometimes when jumping onto a platform.
(2) Delay when landing from a wind slash. Specifically when you land on a rotating gear and get skewered on some spears.
(3) The set of four "pulley blocks" you need to cross to reach the first statue. My solution was to align the four blocks with the leftmost slightly above the ledge with the exit door (making the second-from-left slightly below), third further below (fourth furthest above). Then jump from third->second->exit ledge->first->fourth->statue ledge.
(4) The second or third room requires a boost-slash-wallclimb from the final lift block to the exit door.
(5) Rhymes with "Pester". First half of the fight is easy, if a bit tedious (a dozen loops of dodging 4 shots, then a 360-degree attack, then the big stab). The stab attack can be evaded with a single jump but guarding against it with the Earth Arts (or activating boost and passing straight through it) is far safer. Once he hits 2625 HP it's a free-for-all.
-Aaaaand finally on to Genos Island. Dularn was fairly easy to deal with at level 45 (the swords do around 35 damage each).
Since the tougher enemies were dealing 100-200 damage per hit even with the Raval equipment, I just went straight for Garland, using mirrors and amulets to stay alive.
Random energy orbs spawning on top of Adol for 130 damage = bad. That said I still managed to take out Garland, gaining multiple levels in the process. To Galvaran!
Now for the bad news:
(0) Leveling up enough to stand a chance (I'd say 51 with the revival necklace, 52 or 53 without) requires fighting enemies that are stronger than most bosses. The longer you can hold a 99-hit chain without needing to stop and heal or warp, the better.
(Plan on stopping to heal and warping back to the save point a lot.)
(1) Adol can't double-jump fireball Galvaran at the start of the fight to expose his eye like normal.
(2) Adol's normal jump doesn't clear Galvaran's flamethrower. You've got to either run between the gaps in the flames (but sometimes there are no gaps) or do an extended jump-slash over it every time.
(3) Adol's normal jump doesn't clear the scatter from Galvaran's ice blast, even if he lands on the ice platform. Have to do an extended jump-slash and land on the platform.
(4) If Galvaran follows the ice attack with the energy orbs, Adol has to back off and dodge.
(5) Galvaran's sword stamp is considerably tougher to dodge without a double jump.
(6) When (if?) the second phase of the fight starts, Adol can barely graze Galvaran's hands during his MP drain.
(7) Galvaran's full assault (spherical explosion + fallout, scrolling lasers, flamethrower, and energy orbs simultaneously) is basically undodgeable. If you have to get hit by something, it should be the scrolling lasers as those knock Adol down, keeping him temporarily invincible.
(8) Without the extra damage usually landed during the MP drain, it's very difficult to counter the 3x hand stamp for enough to force him into using the ice spikes before another cycle of near-unavoidable attacks begins.
(9) You can't jump/hover over the ice spikes. (They do 250+ damage, by the way.) Using the Earth Arts to guard, your MP will fully depleted, resulting in being "grazed" for 60-70 damage per hit. Charged Earth Arts followed by boost activation invincibility is just enough to escape alive, though.
The good news...is...um..., well, if you survive Galvaran, you finally get your double jump! Put it to good use against that black Pikkard!
---
So, in conclusion:
-Overpowered equipment is overpowered.
-Lack of double jump is surprisingly a non-factor against bosses not named Death Faleon (due to the projectile punch + flame scatter) or Galvaran (due to, well, everything.)
-Regular enemies hit twice as hard as bosses not named Ellefale, Gyalva, Gildias, or Galvaran.
-Things you shouldn't fall into: the pit near the end of the Abandoned Mines save point, the spikes right before the Icebound Cave save point, and the spears right before the Death Faleon save point. A pattern begins to emerge...
-Just how did Elena manage to scale the Clock Tower by herself, anyway!?!