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Post by hedron on Nov 1, 2010 23:36:11 GMT -5
I have Ys Complete I with nightwolve patch 127.
OK, Is there a way to cheat your way past the Silver Mine boss? I get the idea run around for two hours dodging the bats then cut him with your sword for 2 points of damage out of 5 million, then run around for another two hours dodging bats, wash, rinse, repeat... Now, I don't like cheating this way, but I can no longer move my thumb...
I'm leveled max and have the best sword/shield/armor you can get outside of the tower and the power, timer and healing ring.
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Post by hedron on Nov 1, 2010 23:57:45 GMT -5
I do have the silver sword... Unless there's some item I'm missing. But I do know that you can enter Darm Tower without any silver equipment. I did that once in the TurboCD version, and got my you-know-what handed to me by Dark Fact. Well, I'll try again tomorrow...
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Nov 2, 2010 4:25:27 GMT -5
It helps to stop moving though; if you're constantly running, you'll constantly be chased. I kinda move in a squared pattern if I can help it, before stopping. They scatter faster when you stop, and will begin to re-form; wait just a little while as it's doing this, find the right timing, and then go in for a strike! You CAN get more than one hit on it, but it's a little too challenging to hit it more than once, and NOT get hit in return! I hope this helps!
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Post by yotaka on Nov 2, 2010 13:22:22 GMT -5
I do have the silver sword... Unless there's some item I'm missing. But I do know that you can enter Darm Tower without any silver equipment. Not sure there's any way to do that from Eternal onwards (and since you can't win without the full set...) but getting all three of the Silver items is pretty much essential to fight Vagullion. Other than that, it's basically a patience fight. Play defensively, only strike when you know you can get away without getting caught by the bats and eventually you'll get him. He's pretty much the hardest boss in the game other than Dark Fact so don't feel bad that you've having trouble with him.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Nov 2, 2010 14:14:51 GMT -5
Hedron, apart from what else has been said, the only other tip I can offer you is that Vagullion will not "fake appear" three times in a row. So, if he's done that twice consecutively, you can be sure that the next time he really will appear. You CAN get more than one hit on it, but it's a little too challenging to hit it more than once, and NOT get hit in return! Oh, you can? I've tried that, but I recall hitting him once, and then a null damage "ding" for the second time. Mind explaining how that works? That could be an immense help to my speedrun, if it can be done somewhat reliably (here, and possibly Jenocres, as well). I do have the silver sword... Unless there's some item I'm missing. But I do know that you can enter Darm Tower without any silver equipment. Not sure there's any way to do that from Eternal onwards To the best of my knowledge, no, there isn't a way to enter Darm Tower without them. Eternal on upwards makes it so that you need all of the Silver equipment, though technically, you only ever need the sword (if you're skilled/lucky enough).
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Nov 2, 2010 17:47:11 GMT -5
Maybe it's just in the earlier games that you can hit him more than once before he forms again, I can't recall. He seems to be harder in the newer ones, than in the older ones. I just remember how haphazard it was, to attempt; it often resulted in my death.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Nov 2, 2010 17:55:15 GMT -5
Yeah, probably just the earlier versions. I re-tested it myself, and it doesn't seem possible to hit him twice in a row, null damage or not.
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Post by hedron on Nov 2, 2010 20:16:37 GMT -5
no, there isn't a way to enter Darm Tower without them I was under the impression that the game was supposed to allow for that, because that's why Dact Fact stole all the silver equipment. You weren't really meant to know you needed those items to beat him. So, then you'd play the entire game in ignorance of the fact you needed them, until Dark Fact owns you. I've played through the TGCD and Master System versions without the silver equipment, so it's possible with those. Unless, they made the door to Darm Tower impossible to open if you do not have those items?
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Nov 2, 2010 20:55:00 GMT -5
If they allowed that, it would be a stupid design choice on the part of Falcom. Hmm, I wonder if somehow you could enter Darm Tower without them, would the equipment be in the chests you're supposed to re-obtain them from...? Regardless, in Eternal upwards, Goban won't let you into Darm Tower if you don't have the complete set. I don't know how it is for other versions, but in Eternal upwards, the Darm Key is not actually for entry into Darm Tower, but entry into Vagullion's room.
Besides, most players should eventually figure out that something's missing if they don't have the Silver Sword for Vagullion.
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Post by hedron on Nov 2, 2010 22:56:28 GMT -5
Well, It's not the silver equipment that gets you access or I'd be in Darm Tower by now...
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Post by hedron on Nov 2, 2010 23:09:41 GMT -5
If they allowed that, it would be a stupid design choice on the part of Falcom. I don't see how a plot device would be a poor design choice?
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Nov 2, 2010 23:13:29 GMT -5
That's the last step. Here's what needs to be done. If you're doing this all at once, note that you need to exit and re-enter town between steps 1-3: 1. Return Feena to Zeptic. After she wakes up (exit and re-enter town), talk to her, after the initial scene with her and Jevah. 2. Talk to Jevah after learning of Sarah's death (after killing Nygtilger), as well as Feena out on the pier. 3. Get the first 3 Books of Ys, and have Jevah read all of them. After that's taken care of, talk to Feena, and again to Jevah, who should send you off to Goban. 4. Talk to Goban after obtaining all of the Silver equipment, and then again in the passage to Darm Tower. If they allowed that, it would be a stupid design choice on the part of Falcom. I don't see how a plot device would be a poor design choice? It'd be stupid because it'd make the game unwinnable (or needlessly hard). It may've been somewhat standard practice back in the day, but in RPG's, you should always give players a chance to actually win. That kind of thing should be reserved more for puzzle type games, and even then, I'd say that's stretching it.
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Post by hedron on Nov 3, 2010 1:58:08 GMT -5
I've beaten Dark Fact without the Silver equipment in both the SMS and TGCD version. It makes no sense they wouldn't allow you to go into Darm Tower without the silver. It's part of the plot. It's why Dark Fact steals the silver and gets the mine shut down by attacking it and cutting off trade from Esteria. Without this plot device it would be just a boring "go to the dungeon and kill stuff" game. It gives the game its "geek cred" by nerfing your ability to beat the last boss.
Anyway, we're getting off topic. The point of this post was asking if there was a temporary way to cheat? Like a command console or something? I'm an old man and no longer possess the ability to beat these twitch games like I could when I was a kid.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Nov 3, 2010 14:44:10 GMT -5
Yeah, there's no known way to "cheat" during the Vagullion battle. The various rings actually don't work during boss battles in these versions, so they're no help here. Still, it's really not that bad (unless you're playing on the Hard or Nightmare difficulties). Properly equipped, he takes 8 hits on "Easy", "Normal" is 13, not sure about "Hard", and "Nightmare" is 16 hits. Just be sure to enter the fight with max level (level 10 - 51,200 EXP), full HP, and wearing all the Silver equipment, and you should get him eventually.
Also, sorry for side-tracking the topic somewhat. It's just that there's a fair deal of misconception about what all needs to be done to enter Darm Tower in these versions, and a lot of players seem to get stuck there.
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Post by hedron on Nov 4, 2010 0:02:26 GMT -5
Well, thanks for all your help. I finally defeated him. Though, it does appear in this version that you need the silver equipment to get into the tower, as Goban specifically mentions them. It's no problem, I just don't like arguing about silly stuff. I argue enough on political forums.
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Post by binarynova on Jun 20, 2012 10:03:19 GMT -5
Actually, I'll bet you DON'T have the best sword you can get. You need the Silver Sword to beat that boss. To get the Silver Sword, return the Silver Harmonica to Reah/Lair, eat the Road Tree Seed, then speak with the Roda Trees. -Tom Just wanted to respond to this. I was having trouble with this boss yesterday. Tried again today with no luck. I didn't even know I had access to the next sword until reading your post. After I got it, he was no problem! Thank you!
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