Why can't I be a fan of OiF?

[mezule]

Hi, everyone. I'm a long time lurker, and I'm truly not trying to flame.

At the beginning of last year I heard about Ys for the first time, sounded neat so I bought Ys 6. LOVED it, felt like playing from the start was in order, so I bought Ys I&II Complete. Loved that even more.
I began slavering at anything Ys related and sought out Hardcore gaming 101 for a decent Ys III version. I decided on the genesis version, after comparing the music between that one and the snes. It was awesome and my Ys love was higher than any mountain.

Then I bought Ys OiF after hearing about a translation, and...what the hell? I thought Ys 6 engine was great...but I really dislike this game.
I'm not really sure why I feel this way. It just doesn't feel like Ys to me.
It's hard to explain. I love story, and I love action. But OiF just feels overly wordy. I had thought Chester was a pretty cool character before. A hardass, yes, but he still had honor, and was trying to do what he felt was right.
In OiF, I just plain hate him.
I dislike the extended sword combos, the stat bonuses from enemies and how easy everything is.
I don't think I've just hit my peak of Ys, because I tracked down Ys IV for my PCE and I'm currently right back to being in love. (Mask of the Sun was also really good.)

I'm really sorry for the extended backstory, I just thought that it needed to be known that I'm very much a fan of this series and I hate not being able to complete one of them.

Also, totally unrelated, but about Dogi, I have this overwhelming desire to hug him.

[CrazyJo82]

personally, i hated Ys III because the layout of the game was so far away from what Ys I & II established... and yes, I do consider Ys III a black sheep (stupid side scroll)! OiF on the other hand is pretty awesome. It goes back to what made me like Ys. At the same time, while OiF is a remake or reimage of Ys III, it really isn't Ys III.

BTW, I disliked Ys III so much that I never got past the ruins... lol

[Raison D'etritus]

I'm truly not trying to flame

Welcome back RegaLink101!
--Joking, of course.

It's a bit surprising you hated it inspite of loving Napishtim, as they play so similarly. My guess is that its because you loved the original 3 first. Kind of like how if somebody sees a movie based off a book they'll like it, but if they read the book first the movie seems like total garbage.

That said, I'm one of the rare people who agrees that Napishtim was superior. Sure the end boss wasn't as epic (or any shade of frustrating even), but Felghana was basically a three screen central hub with juxtaposed dungeons and a single little town. The tiny island in VI felt like a bustling metropolis when compared to an entire province.
And while I loved the bosses in OiF, the inability to use items really ruined things for me (and ensured that the nominal difficulty settings were inconsistent with other games--anathema to those who crave consistency).

I still LOVE OiF, just not as much as Nappy. (so you're not completely alone)

[Este]

That's a good point. Ys VI is a much bigger (and IMO better designed) world, but YsF really shines when it comes to the elaborate dungeons. Actually, when I think about it, the 2 things that really bug me in Ys VI are the lack of dash and the lack of teleportation. The world is big and there's no quick way to traverse it.

[TDOMMX]

Ys III -Wanderers From Ys- for the Super Nintendo was the first video game I ever owned back in the early 90's, and I absolutely loved it. For the longest time, I didn't bother touching the other Ys games for no real reason (I guess hearing that the gameplay was different was a subconscious deterrent - I never actually thought "I'm never going to play these"...). When I finally checked out Ys I and II (playing the Ys I-II Complete fan-translation and Ys Books I & II for TurboDuo in tandem), I was pleasantly surprised. I went on to check out Mask of the Sun, which I enjoyed but wasn't all that impressed by, and I picked up both the demo and retail PS2 versions of The Ark of Napishtim on day one (I enjoyed the demo, but the liberties Konami took prompted me to put the game on the back-burner until very recently).

When I first saw the Japanese trailers for The Oath in Felghana, I was completely blown away. The second trailer with the colossal pack-in bonus at the end prompted me to make my very first import preorder, and when the game finally arrived, it somehow surpassed my ludicrously-high expectations. Strangely, when XSEED released the PSP version of Felghana, the game somehow felt like it had only improved from the first few times I'd played through it (despite the hit-or-miss dubbing and a couple of bugs and ignoring the newbie-friendly additions). Is there such a thing as "reverse nostalgia"? That probably sums up my reaction to what I regard as the best remake I'd ever played.

I immediately followed up Felghana with Napishtim, and for the most part, everything felt like a step back. I expected the game to feel less refined given the original order of release, but I was seriously disappointed by the game and I can't quite pin down why. The characters didn't feel as real to me (Ernst and Geis especially), many of the bosses felt like gimmicks, and I actively hated the Plains of Canaan. I enjoyed the city of Kishgal, but the stage felt much shorter than the others for some reason. I have to give props to final Napishtim battle BGM; I don't think I've ever heard such a final battle theme that was this gorgeous. Epic, yes (see Ocarina of Time, Felghana, and countless other titles), but not gorgeous. The game was fun, but for the moment, it's tied as my least-favorite Ys game with Mask (note that I'll be replaying Mask after Chronicles is released to refresh my memory and have yet to play Seven, Origins, Dawn, and the many spinoff titles).

I can't really explain why you're not able to enjoy Felghana to the same degree as the rest of us. I'd be tempted to say "nostalgia", but, as I've just explained, it was the exact opposite case for me.

[mezule]

Wow, I didn't expect so many replies.

I suppose I hadn't really thought about it that way. I guess I was so enamored with the original Ys III that I never really gave OiF a proper chance. Too many comparisons.

I also agree that while Mask of the Sun was definitely a lot of fun, Dawn is precisely what I want in an Ys game. I never died in Mask, but I did several times in Dawn, which makes me happy.
Also, Karna is great.

Since it's been several months since my initial play of OiF, I think I'll try it again. Probably tonight.
Thank you to everyone, I think this is a much better perspective to use this time through.

Btw, who or what is RegaLink101?

[Raison D'etritus]

Yeah, portmanteau of Regalsin and Megalink101.
The first is benign troll who is actually kind of missed, the second was a malignant troll who was sent into exile.
I made the joke simply because you insinuated that your first post could be construed as a flame (which it clearly wasn't).

that was just a joke on Raison's part

Please heed the weird wad! He's one of the four people who realizes that most of my posts are entirely facetious. I'm a good natured lunatic, and I intend no offense.
Enjoy your stay at ALoY!

[Rebel40000]

Jan 2, 2011 2:51:06 GMT -5 Raison D'etritus said:

The first is benign troll who is actually kind of missed,

Ahh, regalsin. How I miss thee. Although he got under my skin initially he really ended up being quite amusing.

[mezule]

Okay, phew, it's over.

I just finished it about ten minutes ago.
I still have a lot of mixed feelings about it, but I think I succeeded in letting go of my preconceptions and taking the game at face value.

I learned to really like the faster combat and the pacing of the dungeons. The magic system was great, and the bonuses, especially for the xp rate, was a lot of fun.
While the dungeons themselves were easy, I loved the difficulty of the bosses. To me, nothing says accomplishment and victory like having finally killed a boss after the third, fourth, or fifth attempt. I think my favorite bosses were Istersiva in the abandoned mine, and the final two bosses, Garland and Galvaran. Very, very well done.

Now, on to the story.
The supporting characters really turned it around for me. Elena was great, I thought everyone in town was very likeable and well thought out. I especially liked Margo, Adonis, and Cynthia.
The sidequests were very strange occurrences, I felt. I don't really know why Falcom made them so missable. I'm very lucky I like to explore and see if characters have any new information. I would've hated to have missed the castle scene when you bring back Christof. I might have written off Elizabeth as being as bad as McGuire had it not been for that.
Which brings me to what I disliked.

*Spoilers*


Chester.
From the moment he appeared to the moment he died, I loathed him completely. Not only for being a dick to Elena, or for having...stabbed Dogi , but for having been written a very emotional 'I know I did bad things, so I'll sacrifice myself. Too bad Elena, but always remember, I'm a fucking anime anti-hero.'
Sheesh, I'm bitter.

Alright, I think I should end on a positive note.
I absolutely adore Falcom's art team. Every area was extremely well created. Every pre-render (character and enemy) was executed to perfection. Their use of 3D renders on 2D backdrops, evidenced in their cutscenes, are possibly the best I've seen of their kind. I really wish there would have been more, like in Ys 6.

Well, I'm glad this part of Ys has come to an end for me. I'm sorry for being so long winded here or coming off as whiny in my first post. But since I have never met anyone who has played, or even heard of Ys, I had to get this off my chest to someone.
I probably never would have come back to this game had it not been for a strange whim to post my frustrations here and, subsequently, read your advice and stories.

Thanks guys!

[Raison D'etritus]

Glad you enjoyed it! Figured you would if you gave it the chance.

nothing says accomplishment and victory like having finally killed a boss after the third, fourth, or fifth attempt.

Nothings says vicotry like 1 out of 5! Actually, most people here seem to share that line of thought. Personally, I wouldn't recommend betting on a sports team with those kinds of odds though.

Spoilers involving "X verb Dogi"

I'm actually surprised by that scene EVERy time I play the game. I don't know why, or how, but it ALWAYS shocks me.
And yeah, Chester's a douche, but I like Adol's stoic lack of compassion in the end.
"Sure, go for it. Nice knowin' ya. . . dick."

[Incog Neato]

Aw man, why did you have to go and like Felghana? The game needs more fans that feel INDIFFERENT about it. :3

[Rhyanna]

Jan 20, 2011 17:54:44 GMT -5 Incog Neato said:

Aw man, why did you have to go and like Felghana? The game needs more fans that feel INDIFFERENT about it. :3

Well like... I kiiiiinda... like Maybe? think its absolutely awesome. But like, only maybe. Only kinda sorta.

...I tried.

[rochmustang]

Just finished on Nightmare mode (kind of upset that there is an Inferno Mode....sigh) but I have to say this is one of the best Ys games I have ever played!! I am missing an item though and I HATE missing items!! The item that is missing is on the bottom row third one over from the left,...... does anyone know what it is and where I can find it? Thanks

[mezule]

I am missing an item though and I HATE missing items!! The item that is missing is on the bottom row third one over from the left

If you're talking about items, that would be the Augite Brooch. Sadly, the only way to get it is being in the right place (Castle Valestein) at the right time (right after you return from the Lava zone, and before you finish the abandoned mine). If you didn't grab it at that point it's gone for good.

If you're talking about accessories, that would be the Stone Shoes, though I'm not sure how someone could miss those. But just in case, those are in the lower caves of the Elderm Mountains, after Berhards hut.

Aw man, why did you have to go and like Felghana? The game needs more fans that feel INDIFFERENT about it.

Yeah, I don't know what came over me.

[CrazyJo82]

Jan 20, 2011 18:34:12 GMT -5 rochmustang said:

Just finished on Nightmare mode (kind of upset that there is an Inferno Mode....sigh) but I have to say this is one of the best Ys games I have ever played!! I am missing an item though and I HATE missing items!! The item that is missing is on the bottom row third one over from the left,...... does anyone know what it is and where I can find it? Thanks

no, kidding... my game crashed after i finished so, i had to beat galbalan again... lol

i dont know if it'll go back to nightmare mode. lol insane amount of leveling up...

[Rhyanna]

Jan 21, 2011 10:55:44 GMT -5 CrazyJo82 said:

Jan 20, 2011 18:34:12 GMT -5 rochmustang said:

Just finished on Nightmare mode (kind of upset that there is an Inferno Mode....sigh) but I have to say this is one of the best Ys games I have ever played!! I am missing an item though and I HATE missing items!! The item that is missing is on the bottom row third one over from the left,...... does anyone know what it is and where I can find it? Thanks

no, kidding... my game crashed after I finished so, I had to beat galbalan again... LOL

I don't know if it'll go back to nightmare mode. LOL insane amount of leveling up...

Reminds me of playing through Ys Origin on my crappy old gen Acer netbook using Clawy.

I got to the very end, beat the boss before last and . . . the game blue screens. I do so again. bluescreens. The final boss was too graphically intensive - the thing would crash if I did ANYTHING besides rush to the end of the game from the final savepoint.

[CrazyJo82]

haven't played origin yet... but then this was the first time i played it on anything but normal... a few bosses were a pain...

[TDOMMX]

Personally, I liked Chester's character throughout the game. I could tell right off the bat that he was pulling a "Magnificent Bastard" act for most of the game (major props to his voice actor for conveying this subtlety). Once he drops the act at the Elderm Mountains and he realizes that he's essentially "Become The Mask", his actions become increasingly more desperate and his reactions much more candid (starting with the sucker-punch "I CAN'T GO BACK ANYMORE!!", which I'm sure some people took as hokey melodrama). Sure, he continues being a dick until his failed assassination attempt, but I wouldn't say he's stays a dick to the end since, given the circumstances, he does what he can to protect what's left of his friends and family. He's completely sincere when he apologizes for lashing out after backing himself into a corner (ie: stabbing Dogi), and he does what he can to protect the people that matter most to him when it counts after Elena is captured (if he were a complete dick, he wouldn't have gone after her). I'll admit, punching his sister in the gut was NOT cool, but given the urgency of the moment, it's excusable).

Also, notice that the voice acting for Chester is subtly but noticeably different after he's dropped the faithful knight facade. Too bad the the lackluster performance for Elena after the final battle kinda killed the scene.

Wyrd, don't get me wrong. I don't hate Mask of the Sun by any stretch of the imagination. I just think it's one of the weakest links in the series. The weakest link in a really strong chain can still be pretty damned powerful.

Unfortunately, I've been forced to postpone playing through Ys Seven since my brother temporarily repoed his PSP (I don't have one of my own, and he lives in Ontario). I'll be getting it back in a month's time (just in time for Chronicles - yay!). I considered picking up a PSP of my own, but he said to save my money since he wouldn't be hanging onto it for more than a month. He just really wanted to check out Crisis Core and a few other titles.

Well, that gives me plenty of time to go through the other stuff in my backlog. Remember 11, Quartett, and Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors are all looking really good.