Possible to enter Kishgal early?

[korzic]

UPDATE 5/9/2015 - Seems this is possible after all! At least for the PC version, no clue about the PS2 or PSP versions. Here's a video of the successful clip (check the description for more in-depth details):



First things first, this post only relates to the PS2 version of the game, as that is the only one I'm currently able to play. Perhaps it applies to the PC and PSP versions, perhaps not.

Anyway, I'm sure someone's probably looked into this before, but I'm curious to know if it's possible to gain entry to the Ruined City of Kishgal before you're meant to. Seeing as how a lot of newer generation games seem to have small bugs in their respective graphics engines, I tried to clip into Kishgal's entry point early.

While I haven't gotten inside, I did discover that Adol will clip through the ground in certain spots (need to be positioned very precisely), and will hover in his jumping animation (when a sword is used in that state, Adol does the downward thrust animation).



The black circle is where the Kishgal entry point is, and the red dots are where I've clipped through the ground (though there's more, I'm sure). Pretty much any forward/backward movement in those spots will get him unstuck. I was hoping to use the Blirante/Erricil charged magics to force "stationary" backwards momentum while hovering towards the Kishgal entry point, but it didn't work.

So perhaps there's another place to clip into the ground, one that's more solidly inside the entry point (I can't say for certain, but it kind of looks like the other spots are on the very edge of the ledge above the entry point). I've tried messing around the edge of the light blue circle, and in certain spots, it seems Adol goes down briefly, but is pushed right back up (could be his feet touching a higher/lower point). Of course, it could simply be that there's a barrier around the entry point until the Wyvern Medallion or whatever is inserted like normal. Yet another thought would be to clip out of bounds, kind of like in this video, though I don't know how that works, or if it's even possible in the PS2 version. However, if Ys I & II Complete are any indication, clipping out of bounds means you can't normally get back in, nor can you no longer use the various entry points.

Well, does anyone know anything more about this? Any suggestions as to how to make it work? Since this place can't normally be accessed until very late in the game and thus has only one state we ever see it in, I'm hoping that if we can enter early, the scenes at the end will function like normal, hopefully skipping a large chunk of the game (of course, it'll need to be done on Hard/Nightmare to have a shot at killing the late game enemies).

[Raison D'etritus]

I think Korzic should be titled "The Bug Lord"

[korzic]

Hmm, any chance you remember how to do that, MP83 (and just in case it matters, what system you were playing on)? I messed around with trying to do that a while back, but wasn't able to come up with anything (granted, I didn't spend a lot of time with it). Perhaps if I can replicate it, I might be able to learn something useful to help with entering Kishgal early, or maybe some other useful bug.

EDIT: Never mind, think I figured out what you were referring to. I still need to check this in the western tower, but it seems that at the bottom of the eastern tower, there's a certain spot you can barely wedge yourself between the stairs and the wall. If you jump into that space correctly, you'll clip out of bounds slightly (have yet to get fully outside). Additionally, you can jump a certain way so that Adol's stuck bouncing around mid-air between the stairs and wall (temporarily - if nothing else, using the Wing of Alma seems to get him free); hopefully I can get propelled out of bounds this way.

[korzic]

Hmm, no luck (as I said earlier, I only currently have access to the PS2 version). Are there any specific spots I should try in (like maybe further up the towers, or something like that)?

Anyway, no luck with getting out of bounds via the other clip. Perhaps if I could use the Blirante/Erricil charged magics inside town, I might be able to get fully out of bounds... but is it possible to activate genocide mode in this version?

[korzic]

Still nothing. I guess it's possible that it was a known issue, and was fixed when the game was ported to the PS2. That, or it might still be possible to clip through, but as with the ground by the Kishgal entry point, it'd require very precise positioning to do.

I'm not sure if any of this stuff is useful yet, but thanks for pointing it out nonetheless. I guess I should also mention something else I was experimenting with on the Kishgal entry point. At the base of the stairs, there's a signpost of some sort, and jumping behind it a certain way causes Adol to get stuck in midair temporarily, though I think he eventually falls by himself (I think I had Adol facing away from the signpost when he was "stuck"). I was hoping to get propelled out of bounds that way, but no luck. There's actually many places like this where Adol hovers briefly in mid-air, but I can't seem to cause any clips or other unusual behavior with them (except that if you do a jumping slash into the spots, you can do ground-based attacks in mid-air); perhaps someone else may be able to find something.

Well, I still need to explore the dungeons more carefully for possible clipping spots, but that's about all I can come up with for now. Too bad none of it seems useful.

[korzic]

Hmm, does anyone happen to remember a post or a video explaining that they managed to clip into the water during the Orjugan boss fight (Limewater Cave boss)? I know I saw something about that somewhere, but I don't remember if it was here, Youtube, or somewhere else.

I'm asking because, given my understanding of the clip in the Rimorge eastern tower, I can kind of see how clipping out of bounds might work in that battle, but I've yet to come up with anything. It seems as though jumping between his arms and the edge of the ground pushes Adol away in much the same manner as the stairs/wall do in Port Rimorge, but no clipping yet. Also, when you destroy his hands, the rubble it forms drops randomly (depending on the position you kill it, I guess), which may also be significant (getting stuck behind it, or something).

I'm hoping that video or post might shed some light on things. While I do have my doubts, I'm hopeful that perhaps Orjugan may be skipped if we can get out of bounds and to the entry point leading to Dogi and the pirates.

[korzic]

Can't believe I didn't think to look there before, but I finally came across what seems to be the method to get out of bounds in the Orjugan fight. I don't understand Japanese, but what I'm getting out of the mangled webpage translation is to diagonally dash jump down-left at the beginning of the battle. Also, it only mentions the PC version, so I'm assuming it can't be done in the PS2 version (though I'll give it a try later, just in case). If someone who understands Japanese could clarify what the page is saying, it'd be much appreciated.

EDIT: Tried this in the PS2 version, didn't work. Still curious to know if dash jumping in a certain spot right away is really all there is to it, or if there's a very specific spot/time. Like maybe when he uses a certain attack or something...?

[korzic]

Something interesting I overlooked earlier on that Japanese website (that, or I just forgot to post about it). It seems that if you warp to Alma's Trials on the bee miniboss screen (Rimorge Plains minibosses), once you come back, you'll eventually become stuck out of bounds. For some reason, when you come back, the warp animation is actually delayed until the next screen transition, which then ends up warping you out of bounds. I've tried this for other miniboss rooms (the non-optional bosses don't have this behavior, with the exception of Kishgal's and Majunun (not sure on Majunun, as you need to actually be able to go to Alma's Trials, and my file that beat him already completed them all, cutting off access), and while similar behavior occurs (actually, the Limewater Cave miniboss room seems normal), the bee boss seems to be the only one where you can get stuck afterwards.

I don't know why this occurs, but it probably has something to do with warping on a miniboss screen. While you can warp on a normal boss screen, the game seems to already have certain precautions in place (at least, before the battle) to prevent potential sequence breaks (for example, trying to activate a warp as you jump into the Mirror of Zeme pieces doesn't work for potential boss skips). As for why it warps you where it does, I can't tell for sure, but for the bee screen at least, it seems to be close to the center. Actually, depending where on-screen you initiate the Alma's Trials warp, it'll attempt to warp you in a slightly different location, but you'll end up in more or less the same space (some instances, even if it initially tries to put you out of bounds, it won't let you stay there).

Anyway, I'm bringing this all up because it seems like even if we could get out of bounds for an early Kishgal/Orjugan skip, it may be useless. In the bee example, I wasn't able to change my position at all (but I was still able to jump and attack and everything). However, it seems that in this instance, the player managed to get out of bounds in the Zonplas battle (PC version, I can't seem to replicate it on the PS2, though I should try some more) but was still able to move around afterwards, so maybe it's a moot point for Orjugan. Of course, that still leaves the question of whether or not the entry points can be accessed from out of bounds (not to mention, in the middle of a boss battle, which is normally inescapable). As far as entering Kishgal early is concerned, it's unlikely to be possible to enter through any out of bounds movement, although if we can clip far enough into the ground, it still may be possible. We'd probably have to somehow touch the area for the screen transition, though it seems to be a ways down, and my testing can't seem to get that far (I can't tell for sure, but there seems to be multiple stone pieces blocking the way, so it'd essentially mean clipping through multiple objects in a single movement column, which is rather unlikely).

EDIT: The glitched warp works in Majunun's room, but it doesn't place you out of bounds.

[korzic]

Why? ;_;

EDIT: Video removed in favor of one showing a successful clip. See first post for details.

There are a couple other such spots in the bottom area where it seems like Adol could also clip out of bounds, but this is the only one that let me stay so far (needed to use Hourglass to help, though). The other locations I think this might be possible are shown here (there's probably more), if anyone cares to help test this (only one I know for sure right now is the one above the top signpost on the right-hand side, but it didn't want to let me stay out of bounds there - just ended up "teleporting" me back in-bounds):



Well, I know there are some cases of being able to wander around more freely in the out of bounds area (for example, it's possible to grab the Capla Water from the beach without the Gratios Talisman via such a clip), so hopefully there's a place like that on this screen as well.

EDIT: Hmm, I'm thinking the game just plain doesn't like you to be out of bounds on this screen (another example of what I mean by this is if you activate the weird Wing glitch in one of the Kishgal miniboss rooms - when the warp actually activates (on the next screen), you'll briefly be placed out of bounds before being "teleported" right back to where you were last in bounds). Using the same area as in the video, I've tried using Ericcil's extension, and then doing a failed Wing use immediately as the animation starts (the Blirante and Ericcil magics have similar effects, just far more limited movement-wise). If timed right, the animation plays out with the text box in place, and it momentarily carries me further out of bounds (or wherever it's aimed); the catch is, if the movement leaves you further out of bounds, you're just teleported right back to where you were as soon as the text box is clear. The good news is that your height is sort of maintained during this movement, so long as you're in the out of bounds area (if you make it back in bounds this way, it'll change to whatever the terrain is). So, if there's an out of bounds location on par with the height of the Kishgal entry point, zipping there via the Ericcil extension could still be possible. I'm just concerned there's not such a location close enough, though.

[korzic]

Well, getting closer, but still no luck.

EDIT: Video removed in favor of one showing a successful clip. See first post for details.

Basically, I found a spot that lets me get "underground" on this screen. Which is significant, because that's likely where the Kishgal transition point is, if it even exists before inserting the Wyvern Medallion. Still, seems the spot is too far away, and while I can inch closer, it's not enough to stay underground while doing the Ericcil extension while dash jumping. Which is probably the only shot of reaching the Kishgal transition point from out of bounds, at least with the known clipping spots being where they are.

I should note, the behavior with the failed Wing use probably won't work in the Steam version, since that version has warping added to it. My guess is that any momentum you'd have would still carry, but then you'd warp right after that.

[korzic]

Well... seems like it might be impossible after all. I can't be 100% certain, but it looks to me like the Kishgal transition point doesn't even exist early on.

EDIT: Video removed in favor of one showing a successful clip. See first post for details.

A couple notes about this. First, since I didn't show it this time, I clipped into the left-hand side of the staircase by doing something similar as my previous two videos, only I did it at the top this time (right as the camera starts to change the focus of the background view of the mountain, sanctum, etc). Only difference is that while the right side required killing my momentum mid-air to safely land out of bounds, the top pillars (on either side) also requires tapping down as soon as you hover over them. Needless to say, it's a bit tricky, but it was the only clip I could find to get into the left-hand side (I don't know if that side is necessary or not, though).

As for equipping the Heavy Belt, it seemed to be the only way I could get forced underground where I did, although I'll bet it isn't strictly required (kills my momentum just enough, I guess, even when dash jumping). Sure makes it easier, though. After that, it appears to just be a matter of finding the right angle to clip back in-bounds, as I otherwise appear to be bouncing off the walls surrounding the Kishgal transition point. I've only been able to get into the transition area (at least, it should be the transition area) 3 other times so far, so this is not at all easy to pull off at present.

I guess it could still be possible to enter early, but if so, it'd probably be when the background scenery on that screen changes for the final time... which is right when you need to see Ord about getting inside properly, so it'd be virtually useless if it does work then. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the thing doesn't exist until you insert the Wyvern Medaille, but I'll try to look into that later.

[korzic]

Good news! I tried this right after the Romuns showed up, and the transition point is actually functional then! So that means the whole thing with infiltrating the fleet is probably unnecessary. I was going to dismiss the possibility of it working then, since the ark doesn't show up in the background yet (it's a clear sky, instead of cloudy like it first is), but really glad I tried. As to why it works then? I'm guessing that the three background sets on Windseeker Heights all take place on separate screens, just that the first one doesn't contain a functional transition point. Anyway, here's a video of the successful clip:



And in case anyone's wondering, I did play ahead up to getting inside the Ark, and events are indeed functioning as normal. So it's just a matter of being a little under-leveled, but that's nothing some leveling can't fix (bombs, at least, are good EXP, and also easy to kill - just need enough STR to deal with the miniboss first, which shouldn't be an issue).