Trebia
Chryolos
In love with a certain Wall-Crusher
Posts: 578
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Post by Trebia on Apr 7, 2012 17:46:42 GMT -5
No, nobody tells us. We determine that ourselves based on all the information available to us. -Tom I don´t get it. The developers must be the ones who have the word, because they made the game. But if they aren´t interest in the format you publish it, they just looking for another company. Sorry, but that´s what I know about it...And thought. .-.
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Trebia
Chryolos
In love with a certain Wall-Crusher
Posts: 578
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Post by Trebia on Apr 7, 2012 18:23:32 GMT -5
I was thinking about manga publishers, and yes, you are right. For example, I want to publish a manga(what it´s true), and it doesn´t matter to me in wich format they publish it, if they publish my manga. So, I think tha´s what happens with the game developers, they just want to see their game publish, no matter if it´s in digital, or physical format. Anyway, I was thinking...And maybe this will better for Ys to have a better publicity(and for me to have it in Spanish XD). But I like the physical format. ^^u
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Trebia
Chryolos
In love with a certain Wall-Crusher
Posts: 578
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Post by Trebia on Apr 7, 2012 18:30:44 GMT -5
Well, just remember, we're not going EXCLUSIVELY digital. Just mostly. Whenever we're able to release a game physically, we will. And while I can't guarantee Ys is a big enough name to warrant a physical release... my guess is, it probably will be. -Tom Then I wish it could going to happen. XD The only Ys game released here in Spanish was Ark of Napishtim. So, I´m waiting for Ys IV.
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Post by ParanoiaDragon on Apr 7, 2012 18:54:03 GMT -5
Well, just remember, we're not going EXCLUSIVELY digital....ever!l. Infact, we're going almost exclusively physical, with digital as a back up, & in all countries, & even a few other planets that I can't disclose at this time! As for Ys, Ys is big, & I mean FLIPPIN' HUGE! There's no way in the universe anybody could stop us from releasing physical copies of each & every Ys game, Infact, just because of this thread, we're going to go ahead & release PS3 versions of every Ys made EVER...& while we're at it, every Falcom game, because we're that awesome! -Tom Fixed
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jdkluv
Limendy
<Brandish Man>
Posts: 223
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Post by jdkluv on Apr 7, 2012 21:04:21 GMT -5
I prefer physical copies so I think they could do a strict LE retail release for some games for those who don't like digital but otherwise if it gets me games I want to play in English I'm okay with it.
Yv IV Premium Edition with a Musical CD full of DAT JDK Goodness™ + Xanadu Next Steam and XSEED have my respects (heck, they already have it).
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Apr 7, 2012 21:16:41 GMT -5
That was the best false quote ever. Of all time.
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Segata
Limendy
Ryudo the wall crusher!
Posts: 221
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Post by Segata on Apr 7, 2012 23:25:00 GMT -5
Why Steam, though, if I may ask? Of all the download services, Steam seems like a really odd one to hate, as it pretty much does everything right. It's even the only download service out there that's basically guaranteed not to lock you out from your game even after its servers go down -- Gabe Newell has stated that there's essentially a "strip all Steam DRM" patch that'll be released for all Steam titles should anything ever happen to the service, immediately making all Steam games freely copyable and back-uppable. That's pretty freaking huge, and outright eliminates the biggest downside of DD content altogether. (Assuming you believe Gabe Newell, of course... but why wouldn't you? The man's proven plenty trustworthy in everything else he's said...) It's also sad to hear that you'd place format over content, missing out on good games solely because they're download-only (even though the game itself is just as fun)... but that's a whole other discussion. Either way, sorry if this decision disappoints you, but again... no choice in the matter! We do only what we have to do, and we can only hope people who would drop us for making a necessary business decision like this are in the minority... or else we're screwed. And if we're screwed, everyone who loves our games is kind of screwed too. -Tom Few years ago I bought 100$ worth of games on steam. Few months later that PC died. So I had to get a new HDD. When I tried to get my games back it was DRM locked. I tried logging into steam later only then a new problem. It logged me out every 30 seconds and after months of trying I gave up and said fuck those cunts at steam. Also Me personally the hunt is huge for me. It's a huge part of the experience. Also when hunting while 90% of the time not looking in game stores you strike out. You sometimes get something great,those are the times it feels great and worth it. If that is taken away from me then you take the soul away of the total experience. it's not just the game itself. Also sometimes the hunt is the thrill more so than the game. The care and detail put into the packaging. Manual & Cover. The art of great boxart and manuals is dissapearing. The game itself. Sure it's nice and all but one glitch and could be deleted and only getting a portion of the product. Also part of collecting is yes showing off. You put something up to proudly display it. If only DLC what are you going to do get a big poster nail it to the wall and write down everything to show off? Me personally I adore that new game smell. One of the nicest in this planet. To me and many collectors it's as if you got charged for the game but got handed the manual. Just a part of the package. So you feel empty. No satisfaction. No thrill. No soul. When soul is taken away from my experience. Then I can no longer enjoy it. I know it's not Xseeds fault. it's the assholes who support EA,Activision,Quantic Dreams,DLC and the big corps themselves. It hurts me and others like me. The ones that have been with gaming since the beginning. I'm not mad at Xseed but tha market. However no matter who it is. Not even my best friend who working at R* making his own game for PC DLC only. I can't support. It's something I firmly hold true on. I can't sell myself. The joy would be gone for me. When the joy is gone there is no point.
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Post by SkyeWelse on Apr 8, 2012 1:13:22 GMT -5
I also share the same "Thrill of the Hunt" and "Collector's Soul" that you do Ryudo. If you don't believe that, here's some proof. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10I collect probably 10-20 times more games and spend probably about 3 times the amount of time collecting games than I do actually sitting down and playing through a game. Owning an original version of a game and owning it complete is not only a hobby for me, it's a quest for trophies that I have either been seeking to once again own, own for the very first time or add in to make various series complete. To people like us, it's treasure, and sometimes while on the hunt, you come back empty handed or you feel that the trip to the retro store, goodwill, thrift store was wasted, while other times you find some really great deals and it is an exciting feeling to reclaim something that means more to people like us that perhaps most others don't care about. A decision of say a store like Gamestop to throw out all their old game cases and just keep the discs is absurd to us, and for people like us, it would make the item less attractive even possibly a "no buy" situation. I mean, how could anyone sit there and decide to buy a game, disc only in a generic case for only $5-10 less than buying it new! Absurd! But you know what, there are more of those types of people who don't care than there are of people like you and I. Kids who immediately get a new DS game, toss the case or "misplace it" and just keep the game in a album or something like that or metal tin with a Pokémon character on it. To them, and to stores like Gamestop, it's just a case with cover art and a manual that no one cares about and thus keeping things like this complete is not in the best interest of their company on the whole as it takes a lot more shelf-space in the store to display these complete items with cases that it would to throw them in paper sleeves and have it sitting in a box or a display case near the counter. In a sense, this is also the same type of thing that is happening to the industry overall in general. Print media is expensive, now more than ever. There is less competition because there is less need for it when there are digital alternatives and oftentimes businesses either have to charge a bit more to make their ends meet or downsize their company, or both. I think that for a publisher and a relatively small to middle-sized publisher like XSEED, unless you have found a huge audience to buy your game with printed packages, manuals, et cetera, it is just not a viable solution and it is becoming more profitable to sell it all in digital format, generally speaking. And why? Because people for the most part don't care about the packaging or thrill of having something they can hold in their hands or place on a shelf. But if we decide that we're not going to play a game simply because it is made to be download only, we really would be missing out on some great titles! Take for example the Game Boy Color game Shantae. It's a wonderful game and only a limited round of printed copies were ever made. It's become very rare with most copies complete ranging from $150-250 while cart-only auctions are set around $50-60. But when the creator said, you know what, we got pretty shafted by our publisher last time we tried to release Shantae, let's cut out the publisher and release a new sequel on DSiWare, they delivered this long awaited sequel (with the possibility of releasing more down the road) as Digital Distribution only. It was a fantastic game and I thoroughly enjoyed it and still crave more. If I had had your thought process that I would not purchase Digital Download-only games, I would have missed it completely. Same goes for Mega Man 9 and 10 which I loved! It's great to see new classics. Would I have preferred a nice box and cartridge to place next to the other games I own physical copies of in the series? Hell yes, I would!, But I can't. They didn't make it that way. I have to move past that, and I have. How about that kickass Bionic Commando ReArmed remake... How cool was that! Would have missed it. How about my favorite video game series of all time, Panzer Dragoon, with PD Saga being one of the most rare U.S. and European titles out there with only 3000 or so copies ever being made. Guess what, the newest incarnation of that series, Crimson Dragon, (which is being made by the original PD creator and Illustrator) is going to be released via XBLA only from what the articles on-line have said. A game like that (I've played it already and I can honestly say it was amazing, worthy of being sold on a shelf) as an Xbox Live.... Arcade... title? With no cool box, or LE set or anything that I can stick next to the other rare games in the series? That sucks! But I've accepted that fact. This is the future of videogaming, whether we like it or not. Sure it can't stop us from collecting the originals and hoping for publishers like XSEED to accomodate us fans with something they know we really want to see more of, but you shouldn't let it stop you from playing new DD only games, or you will miss out on some damn good games! This is from one hardcore collector to another. Trust me, if you can get past this, you'll be glad you did. : ) And I believe Tom is right in that if you followup with the right people at Steam, they can set the wrong things right again for you. And if you've been indexing your collection on places like Backloggery or RF-Generations, you'll have a much easier time of it sharing the games you need to be reimbursed for or have them research for you on your account. I had a similar story in that for awhile there was a Netherlands operation to release several great MSX titles officially in English with great translations. This service was called Woomb.net and it offered games like Aleste, Xak, Golvellius I & II. Great stuff! Only, you had to purchase and download these and play them whenever you were connected to the Woomb.net service only. I was really enjoying these games, but as I was in school at the time, my studies came first over game time and before I even graduated, the service ended in less than a year after I had purchased the products and I had no more English version of these games. Sure, I can download IPS patches of fan-translated versions, but they just weren't the same level of quality at all... Gone forever. Money wasted. Or so I thought until just recently. I had conversation with the original translator of this group who has started up a new project for a high quality English release of SD-Snatcher. He said that he plans to make several of the older Woomb.net titles available again as IPS patches, that can be used to patch either the digital copies of disk files of the games or ROMs. But since many of these can also be run quite easily on real MSX hardware, this is like a dream come true for me because not only will I have access to play these again, but they will also be made available outside of being only digital. I can write these to disk and play on my real MSX hardware to my heart's content, and if I'm concerned to own the original, I have the Japanese versions that I can seek out, many of which I have already. Another situation that I thought I would get burned on was with several WiiWare and Virtual Consoles games I had purchased on my original white Wii. I had purchases well over $150 in DD only games for it, but I came upon an opportunity to get one of the limited edition 25th Anniversary Red Wiis and although I had to explain my situation over the phone for quite awhile with Nintendo customer service, they accommodated me and helped me out with transferring my purchases to the new Red Wii. What may seem impossible, may not in fact be that way as long as you are asking right questions to the right people involved. What I'm saying is that there are always options and there are always new possibilities coming around the corner. You owe it to yourself to look past the flaws that you see in front of you with the current digital distribution models out there. Now, one final point that I'd kind of like to throw back at Tom. Given the success of the Kickstarter project with fans and backers contributing to the Double Fine Adventure game and making it possible where it would likely have been impossible in this day and age from a publisher's perspective... could something similar ever be done should XSEED ever find themselves in a crisis where you all have to make a choice to cut the packaging or LE set for a new Falcom title (or title in general) that has a cult following? I know that if you were to come to this community and say, guys, gals, got some bad news, even though we've been able to secure the rights to "Falcom Game" here, we just are not seeing enough budget to warrant an LE package for this. I'm sorry. If given the opportunity to do so, I believe that fans would donate their money as a tribute for seeing that part of the process through, if anything to secure their own copies for getting an LE version. I would even be willing to bet that if you offered a game as a digital copy only across the board for everyone, that if you asked fans if they would be interested in buying some LE packaging that could be made in limited quantities for donors or "backers", something cool to stick on a shelf or add to a collection, you'd probably find quite few people willing to do so as long as you got the message out there loud and clear. -Thomas
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Segata
Limendy
Ryudo the wall crusher!
Posts: 221
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Post by Segata on Apr 8, 2012 3:00:56 GMT -5
I didn't say the hunt was more fun but part of the overall experience for me. Flipping through web pages has no thrill. Being there in person does.
I tried getting ahold of steam but nothing I tried worked. Some error or problem kept coming up. After 8 months of trying to get anything. I gave up. 8 fucking months
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Segata
Limendy
Ryudo the wall crusher!
Posts: 221
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Post by Segata on Apr 8, 2012 3:56:05 GMT -5
Nah that was 2008. I don't even care anymore to bother with them.And I no longer have a bank account they could return the money to a now long gone card.
I'm sorry but I have to have something physical in my hand. Nothing digital in gaming will do. It feels empty and souless.
Another reason is having my physical copy I know I will have it in 20-30 years. Digital. I highly doubt it. I will never go DLC. Even if it means quitting modern gaming and staying retro. Still 10's of thousands games I have yet to play.
Nothing on this planet will get me to go digital.
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Post by gnosis301 on Apr 8, 2012 5:53:16 GMT -5
Regardless of the direction you guys take, I'll definitely keep buying if you keep selling.
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Post by SkyeWelse on Apr 8, 2012 10:40:56 GMT -5
That's been suggested many times at work already, and I've been told it just isn't feasible right now. The biggest concern with it is actually in regards to our business relationships with developers -- particularly Japanese developers (which make up the majority of companies we work with, as you might imagine). To be more specific, we're concerned that it would seem extremely unprofessional to tell a Japanese company that we plan to release their game digitally "but will be holding a fundraiser to support a physical release as well." Even from an American business standpoint, that's pretty iffy, but from a Japanese business standpoint in particular, that could be seen as extremely offensive and potentially hurt future relations with that company irreparably. Especially if the Kickstarter then fails to meet its goal, which seems like will probably be the case with Gaijinworks' and Monkey Paw's initiative. It may be hard to save face after something like that, and honestly, we're so small that we can't afford to (or aren't willing to risk, at any rate) offend(ing) ANY developer. If the Class of Heroes 2 initiative succeeds, however -- or if any other company takes a chance on something similar and succeeds -- this could become a more viable and acceptable business model in the future, and could really open a lot of doors for small publishers like us. And should we ever set about developing a game in-house or something (which I've actually been hoping to spearhead at some point in the future), Kickstarter would certainly be a perfectly viable option for us then. It's just really tough to justify holding a fundraiser to release someone else's game. I wish Gaijinworks and Monkey Paw much luck in their endeavor, and I really, REALLY hope they succeed, because I'd love to see us do something similar for some of our future titles... but for now, it's not something we're willing to do. -Tom I see... I hadn't really though of it that way before and the last thing that a publisher would want to do is insult or break a good relationship with a they are in business with. That would be a significant risk if there were no prior successful model to follow that you could point to as an example or option. I guess in this regard, if you state to the developer it will be a "digital release", it had better be a digital release. : 0 Thanks for explaining it from a publisher's point of view. Now for Ryudo's comment: Well, I tried. I think your rationale for keeping that decision the same is unhealthy as both a gamer and a collector. I'll say it once more, if I had kept your point of view, I would be missing out some great titles. Just doesn't seem worth it to have that pride only for the physical when you could have both. And Steam has come a LONG way since 2008. I'm sure they have other ways of looking up purchases by now. That's the last time I'll attempt to try and get you to see the light. : ) -Thomas
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Segata
Limendy
Ryudo the wall crusher!
Posts: 221
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Post by Segata on Apr 8, 2012 13:36:15 GMT -5
I have carts and discs over 20 years old and work fine.
Now at this point I'm rather pissed off that the person I gave money to when as a disabled person on a very fixed income has told me I'm a liar and keeps saying my belief is wrong and I feel ganged up on by other just because I have a different opinion. I feel heavily disrespected.
Now I don't know I want to give any money to XSEED period. Or visit these forums. Thanks for ganging up on me and telling me bullshit like "not healthy" "see the light" fuck off. Just as bad as forcing religion down ones throat.
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Post by Ranzor on Apr 8, 2012 17:38:18 GMT -5
If you didn't want people telling you they think you're wrong, then you shouldn't have started this thread. Forums are made for discussion, and people are bound to disagree with you, specially when you're defending such a radical position.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 17:43:40 GMT -5
Oh cool, one of these kinds of threads I guess I should start from the begininng to get up to speed on what's going down but first, microwave some popcorn kick back and relax. Before I read of what transpired here, I think Xseed is awesome because they brought over Shadow Hearts: From the New World, The PSP Ys games, and The Last Story is on its way.
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Trebia
Chryolos
In love with a certain Wall-Crusher
Posts: 578
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Post by Trebia on Apr 8, 2012 18:22:02 GMT -5
If you didn't want people telling you they think you're wrong, then you shouldn't have started this thread. Forums are made for discussion, and people are bound to disagree with you, specially when you're defending such a radical position. You reap what you sow. Especially with that negative attitude of his. I really don´t see why he is offended, really. I´ve got a lot of discs(Even VHS and Beta), but no matter how well you watch out for them, they´ll finally break with the time. That´s the sad true. And what he tries to tell you, is that when you buy them digital, if the console breaks, you continue having the game, you must not pay again for it.
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Post by Ranzor on Apr 8, 2012 18:51:28 GMT -5
You reap what you sow. Especially with that negative attitude of his. Being that negative about XSEED, the company responsible for making it possible for us to play Ys games in English, sure doesn't sound too good.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Apr 8, 2012 19:13:27 GMT -5
I really don´t see why he is offended, really. I´ve got a lot of discs(Even VHS and Beta), but no matter how well you watch out for them, they´ll finally break with the time. That´s the sad true. And what he tries to tell you, is that when you buy them digital, if the console breaks, you continue having the game, you must not pay again for it. Agreed, though am I weird for wondering why my copies of Game and Watch Gallery 2 and Megaman Xtreme failed to work after playing them for such a long time? It seems those black GBC cartridges fail easier than most other mediums I've had -- and my NES collection still works to this very day! Same with Super Mario RPG. I really don't understand why some games in my collection are more prone to hardware failure than others. I also had a copy of The Treehouse of Horror that I picked up on a dirt road in a dusty city -- it worked (so it must've been pretty durable for a GBC game), but it wasn't worth picking up. XD
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Apr 8, 2012 19:25:20 GMT -5
With Super Mario RPG, it was ironic; I chose to stay the night at the inn where they ask "Would you like to crash?" -- and sure enough, my game crashed right then and there. // There were a lot of issues with it right off, and eventually the cartridge just completely failed to do anything. My saves would get deleted. I'd get a black screen more and more frequently, until I could no longer start it up. \\ Luckily, it was within the week I bought it, so I was able to replace my cartridge. Since then, I've had a paranoia about that inn. // Megaman Xtreme did something weird before it died as well. I must've beaten it about 3 or 4 times. At one of the quick save points (at the 8 maverick transporters) the screen decided that it didn't need to scroll anymore. It would end up in some funky places when new areas would load. It crashed right then and there, and that was the last time that I could get the game itself to work. These anomalies remind me of the "tilted cartridge trick" that people seem to have started doing in the N64 days. I always kept good care of my stuff. They would have their protective sleeves, cases, or contact covers on at all times when not in use.
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Segata
Limendy
Ryudo the wall crusher!
Posts: 221
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Post by Segata on Apr 8, 2012 19:51:06 GMT -5
Now I am talked about in the 3rd person as if I can't read the topic? Classy. NO I am offended when something is shoved down my throat like "See the light" "not healthy" I get that kind of bullshit from religious nutjobs. It's passive aggressive bullshit. can fully understand if they're switching to DLC out of necessity. I hate it, but at least I get that part. The ridiculous part now is that, from the way it sounds, XSEED convinced themselves that digital is better. "You don't like it? Well it's too bad you can't see the light like we have!" That's just retarded. I also like how I told how I had problems with steam and won't go back. Then I get told oh not that didn't happen. So I revise what I said then get told that's not true. It sounds like they are refusing to accept the truth I told because they have a biased business deal. >_> and won't accept someone had real problems for Valve to do anything. Yet somehow it's my fault.
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