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Post by Wyrdwad on Jul 21, 2014 12:49:24 GMT -5
Now that's just some grade A BS right there. No insult intended but that is just really poorly worded. "Rose-colored glasses" only apply to people who reminisce about nostalgic days - They do not apply to us who still play those games every years and possibly several during a year as well. I still replay Megaman, Metroid, Shadowrun every year, not to mention all the other games I do play or even games I haven't played that I discover later. In this case, it's not at all rose-colored glasses. That is by far, one of the worst excuses ever. Is it simply just not so that YOU are the one who isn't playing those old games anymore if you are willing to throw out a term like that? No, in this case, I'm using the term quite aptly, as it's the developers' stated intent. Their goal was to capture the feeling of sitting down to play an NES game in the late '80s and early '90s. Basically, even if you play classic games each and every day of your life, you don't get the same thrill from it that you did when you first started playing games way back when, right? I know I don't. I'm older now. I've played more games and experienced more things, and have a different perspective on life. That thrill I got as a kid from opening a new game and popping it into my NES for the first time is something I legitimately haven't experienced in a long time, classic gaming or no. But Shovel Knight was designed to be a "new old game." To have all the things you remember loving about playing classic NES games for the very first time way back when, when life was simpler, but to trim all the negative aspects -- basically, it's designed to be the perfect new NES game experience. It's designed to be nostalgic, and to be the best kind of nostalgic. Maybe that wouldn't work on you. But that doesn't make the approach itself BS in any way. Not every approach can work for every person. -Tom
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Post by Zeithri on Jul 21, 2014 19:11:41 GMT -5
No, in this case, I'm using the term quite aptly, as it's the developers' stated intent. Their goal was to capture the feeling of sitting down to play an NES game in the late '80s and early '90s. Basically, even if you play classic games each and every day of your life, you don't get the same thrill from it that you did when you first started playing games way back when, right? I know I don't. I'm older now. I've played more games and experienced more things, and have a different perspective on life. That thrill I got as a kid from opening a new game and popping it into my NES for the first time is something I legitimately haven't experienced in a long time, classic gaming or no. But Shovel Knight was designed to be a "new old game." To have all the things you remember loving about playing classic NES games for the very first time way back when, when life was simpler, but to trim all the negative aspects -- basically, it's designed to be the perfect new NES game experience. It's designed to be nostalgic, and to be the best kind of nostalgic. Maybe that wouldn't work on you. But that doesn't make the approach itself BS in any way. Not every approach can work for every person. -Tom That isn't even correct. What you're stating is just the excitement of whenever you pop in a new game. Not the old school NES or SEGA games themselves. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the general game.
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Post by Wyrdwad on Jul 21, 2014 19:36:39 GMT -5
That isn't even correct. What you're stating is just the excitement of whenever you pop in a new game. Not the old school NES or SEGA games themselves. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the general game. I'm describing a feeling. There is no correct or incorrect when describing a feeling. And the reason this feeling is relevant is because it was the developer's stated goal to elicit that very feeling from people. It's what they had in mind when they created the game. And in my opinion, they succeeded completely. You don't have to believe that, nor do you have to agree with it if you've played the game and didn't feel it yourself. But it's not wrong to state that nostalgia can contribute a LOT to a person's emotional reactions, and in this case, Shovel Knight evoked a feeling of nostalgia in me that literally no other "retro revival" game has ever managed to achieve. And for that, I feel it deserves to be played by others, as it's clear from every moment of gameplay (in my opinion) that a lot of love went into its production. -Tom
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Post by Zeithri on Jul 22, 2014 6:42:56 GMT -5
That isn't even correct. What you're stating is just the excitement of whenever you pop in a new game. Not the old school NES or SEGA games themselves. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the general game. I'm describing a feeling. There is no correct or incorrect when describing a feeling. And the reason this feeling is relevant is because it was the developer's stated goal to elicit that very feeling from people. It's what they had in mind when they created the game. And in my opinion, they succeeded completely. You don't have to believe that, nor do you have to agree with it if you've played the game and didn't feel it yourself. But it's not wrong to state that nostalgia can contribute a LOT to a person's emotional reactions, and in this case, Shovel Knight evoked a feeling of nostalgia in me that literally no other "retro revival" game has ever managed to achieve. And for that, I feel it deserves to be played by others, as it's clear from every moment of gameplay (in my opinion) that a lot of love went into its production. -Tom I can describe a feeling too but that doesn't make it an argument point. You could argue that Phil Phish is sane and not at all pretentious at that case - it's just gamers who is out after him. I could say that my feeling is that this is an overhyped game that will be forgotten within a year. At most it'll be forgotten within five and after that, it won't be played anymore. Know what still will be played? Doom. See, I mixed in my feeling and added a bit of truth to it. Will Shovel Knight be played in 5 years? I personally doubt it. Indie games like this tend to have a moment of shine and then their spark fades away.
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Post by Wyrdwad on Jul 22, 2014 11:23:37 GMT -5
There haven't been any other indie games quite like this one, though. That's the point I'm trying to make. This game shines as bright as La-Mulana, and brighter than Cave Story. And La-Mulana has been relevant since 2005, so I'm pretty sure Shovel Knight will be as well.
But either way, I think I'm done with your random negativity. I'm not sure why you're so upset that other people are enjoying this game, but I see no point in trying to convince you it's worth your time as well, because it seems like you've already made up your mind about it and dismissed it outright without even giving it a chance.
And as far as I'm concerned, that's your loss.
-Tom
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Post by Zeithri on Jul 22, 2014 15:26:44 GMT -5
You stated your opinion. I stated my opinion.
I think that was a pretty good conversation instead of "random negativity".
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Post by Wyrdwad on Jul 22, 2014 18:59:03 GMT -5
You stated your opinion. I stated my opinion. I think that was a pretty good conversation instead of " random negativity". On three subsequent responses, you called my arguments "grade A BS," "incorrect," and "not even an argument point." If you want to talk about this, then please try to respect my opinions rather than insulting and outright dismissing them. That does not make for good debate. -Tom
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Post by Zeithri on Jul 23, 2014 11:05:02 GMT -5
You stated your opinion. I stated my opinion. I think that was a pretty good conversation instead of " random negativity". On three subsequent responses, you called my arguments "grade A BS," "incorrect," and "not even an argument point." If you want to talk about this, then please try to respect my opinions rather than insulting and outright dismissing them. That does not make for good debate. -Tom 1. Grade A BS - When saying that people only remember the old games with rose tinted glasses. This is usually said by people who either don't play the old games, or they're throwing it out because it'll spark a reaction. In other cases, it can also be that people just throw it out because others do. 2. Incorrect - You weren't describing the game at all nor the old games. What you were describing were simply the excitement of opening a new game and playing it or really anything. What would you say if I described listening to some is the equivalent of eating ice cream? It says nothing about it. 3. Not even an argumentation point - "This is how I feel about this game." There's nothing I can say about that, but you're using it as "This is how the developer felt, so this is how I feel because they succeeded". Okay, that is all I can say to that. I respect that you like the game and enjoy it and that is great. Personally, I think it looks uninteresting, dull, and just adopts a silly standpoint to stand out. If I played it, I'd perhaps enjoy it but I don't think it'd break any waves in my brain and in the end, I won't be playing it again in 20 years. Will you play it in 20 years? If No. Then don't ever use rose-tinted glasses in a discussion. If Yes, still don't use it. ADD: Agree to disagree?
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Post by Wyrdwad on Jul 23, 2014 11:42:27 GMT -5
I've never heard of someone being against the usage of a perfectly valid emotional response in an argument before. Evoking the feeling of rose-tinted glasses is the best way to describe Shovel Knight. If you believe the mere concept of such a thing is ludicrous, then clearly we CANNOT have a proper discussion on this matter, since that is the lynchpin of my argument and the main draw of the game for me -- the way the game makes me feel differs from any other game I've played since I was a little kid, including legitimately retro titles. I'm not going to ignore that simply because you feel it's an invalid point, and if you're not willing to accept that it IS a valid point, then why are you even bothering to post here? Can you just... not stand to see people enjoying themselves, or something? And yes, there is no doubt in my mind that I will absolutely be playing this game in 20 years, provided I'm not dead from malnutrition by then. -Tom
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Post by SkyeWelse on Jul 23, 2014 14:10:11 GMT -5
Wow... this got out of hand pretty fast. So much for a happy discussion about the "Blue Burrower".
*Attempts to Break Up Argument with a Shovel + 4*
In any case, I just want to say that the concept of Shovel Knight is no more ridiculous than Dr.Wily's creation of Wood Man in a world where metal collides. It's just meant to be a humorous take on a Hero being armed with a shovel, instead of a sword and featuring other "Knights" in the way of Robot Masters that each have their own type of weapon or skill that is a part of their character or stage. Not only is having a Shovel ridiculous, but the game points out this fact in so many places stating how weird it is that he's a knight with a shovel.
Point is, it's a fun game, a funny concept, offers fun gameplay in the look and style of many NES classics we've grown up with and genuinely feels like you've popped this as a cartridge into your NES taking you back to what it was like playing a legendary NES game. It's not "trying to be retro" or anything, it honestly feels like a highly polished NES game that you might expect from Capcom when they used to be cool. As a gamer who appreciates and still plays classics more than modern games, I have a lot of respect for what the Shovel Knight team did. They nailed it.
I think all that Wyrd was trying to get at was that he was trying to persuade you to try out the game and give it a chance based on the genres and games you mentioned you enjoy, not wax intellectually with you in a heated battle of definitions and meanings and he feels that he wasted his time trying to do that because of your reaction.
I'll just say that I hope you try it someday and I hope you enjoy it. If not, well, everyone's different. One of my best friends didn't like Frozen either... and I loved it. We're not all built the same and it would be boring if we were.
-Thomas
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Post by schlagwerk on Jul 23, 2014 16:34:54 GMT -5
I'm enjoying the game. Being a huge fan of classic boss fights, this game has some pretty complex ones. A shame the final boss is a cool setup, but weak in execution.
Also something tells me I shouldn't be attempting the 1.5 hour run, destroy all checkpoints, don't fall down a pit, don't buy any upgrades, and don't get any relics achievements all in the same run.
Also props to a game that constantly tempts me to destroy checkpoints and to me who fall for it way too often on my first playthrough
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Pal
Dinvel
Posts: 92
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Post by Pal on Jul 25, 2014 21:00:17 GMT -5
I finally set some time aside to try this game out, I've been hearing good thing about it since the Kickstarter.
Some quick thoughts about the game: +Gameplay is great. Really fun, good platforming and a good array of moves on Shovel himself. +8-bit feel done right. Nothing felt out of place unlike some other games. Except maybe the engine felt too fluid and at times there were things where I said "this can't be done on an NES" but that's just me nitpicking (La-Mulana's almost perfect emulation of old MSX games has spoiled me) +The music's pretty great. +The retro feel is a bonus, not a selling point. Not a single moment of the game I was like "hey this enemy's from Mega Man" or "Hey, this stage is just like that Castlevania stage", most of the game is original. +Some of the gimmicks were hella creative. Like the books in... King Knight's stage? (can't remember) Or the rainbow fountain statues in Frost Knight stage. -The bosses were pretty easy, or hell the entire game can be thanks to the Phase Locket. That thing's broken, consumes a hefty amount of MP but you can replenish it quickly and you can instantly use it again while the effect's wearing off. Not to mention it resets your momentum so you can use it to cancel any jump or attack. -The game has a habit of mixing tight platforming sections with combat against annoying enemies. Plague Knight's stage being pretty guilty of this. Why must I fight an enemy that moves super fast or blocks my attacks while knocking me back on a tiny platform with a bottomless pit below while some bird drops flasks from above? Although these aren't particularly hard, they were annoying as hell. -Some pixel art looks out of style sometimes. Villagers are pretty guilty of this, looking completely different from Shovel or the other knights. Mostly a nitpick.
All in all, I'm pretty satisfied. It's a great game that takes notes from NES games but doesn't attach itself too much to them but rather offers an experience similar to nostalgic games while staying completely new.
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