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Post by hellsassassin on Jan 12, 2007 23:37:10 GMT -5
I just saw the ending for Toal Fact. I was puzzled by few things though. Can anyone clarify these? Anyway, here they are:
1. His sword is what Adol uses in Ys I, right? Then, where does the sword that Adol uses in Ys II come from? I am sure that Adol uses different cleria swords in Ys I and II... I just thought it would be more significant if Adol uses Toal's sword in Ys II to destroy Darm instead of Ys I. Correct me if I'm wrong.
2. Why does Feena have no memory when Adol rescues her? It is just strange...
3. The black pearl as the source of magic. If the black pearl provides magic, then why does blood matter? Syon explains (and Ys II supports this claim) that without black pearl, there would be no magic. Yet, Yunica can't use the magic for some reason.
Also, even after the black pearl was sealed, the search party could use magic and Ys still floated. At the end of Ys II, when the black pearl was sealed again with goddesses, the magic was gone completely. Isn't that a bit awkward?
4. The ending of this game kind of toned down the ending of Ys II a bit. After the ending credits of Ys II, we see two goddesses holding what looks like the black pearl. If that is indeed the black pearl, I just can't see any difference between the outcome of Ys Origin and that of Ys II. Sure, the floating island went back to its place and all, but if the black pearl wasn't destroyed and the goddesses had to seal themselves again, isn't that just going around in circles (I always assumed that the goddesses had to seal themselves to stop the black pearl in Ys II)? Anyway, correct me if I am wrong.
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Post by soulmancer on Jan 13, 2007 1:39:08 GMT -5
The Black Pearl is not sealed is Ys 2... Its destroyed, the Black Pearl is shattered when Darm is defeated by Adol... This occured in all versions of Ys 2, and again in the opening sequence to Dawn of Ys you see the Black Pearl crack and shatter when Adol kills Darm.
In Ys Origins the Pearl is sealed along with all the evil, hence we Dalles, Zava and Darm returned.
But with the Black Pearl destroyed at the end of Ys 2, they're most likely fully dead.
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Post by hellsassassin on Jan 13, 2007 1:49:06 GMT -5
O.k., then why did the goddesses go back to sleep?
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Post by hellsassassin on Jan 13, 2007 2:01:50 GMT -5
The Black Pearl is not sealed is Ys 2... Its destroyed, the Black Pearl is shattered when Darm is defeated by Adol... This occured in all versions of Ys 2, and again in the opening sequence to Dawn of Ys you see the Black Pearl crack and shatter when Adol kills Darm. In Ys Origins the Pearl is sealed along with all the evil, hence we Dalles, Zava and Darm returned. But with the Black Pearl destroyed at the end of Ys 2, they're most likely fully dead. Oh well, I guess that means Adol is a lot tougher than the Claw. |
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Post by soulmancer on Jan 13, 2007 2:47:19 GMT -5
Adol wouldn't have stood a chance without the imbued equipment of Cleria and the power of the goddess' during the fight... Try fighting Darm without the Goddess Ring and see what happens...
Adol always needs some kind of uber equipment or item to stand a chance against the final bosses.
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Post by hellsassassin on Jan 13, 2007 12:15:47 GMT -5
Yes I know that, but the Claw had the same advantages (the goddess ring and cleria sword). Yet, the Claw could only seal Dahm while Adol permanently destroyed him.
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Post by soulmancer on Jan 14, 2007 3:07:05 GMT -5
Hmm, well lets speculate then... Looking at Darm's appearance "and Dalles" between Ys 1&2, they don't look quite as attractive as they once did... They both clearly look like they've seen better days and are pretty much undead in appearance, especially Darm, who is also missing the entire lower half of his body in Ys 2... As opposed to a much more complete body in Ys Origin's...
My guess is this battle took quite a lot out of them and the Black Pearl... Its likely the Black Pearl couldn't suffer another crippling defeat when its clearly exhumed so much power already... By Adol's time period perhaps the Black Pearl and Darm were in more fragile shape then they were in Ys Origin. The Black Peal was used to create Darm and empower its followers... He was sealed the the Pearl sealed for 700 years again... He returns and the black pearl ressurects and unleashes countless monsters, including Dalles, Zava and most of the bosses...
This was likely his last ditch effort at conquering Ys, and he failed.
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seki
Rheboll
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Post by seki on Jan 14, 2007 5:43:15 GMT -5
Thor actually had very little to do with the action of sealing Darm.
Feena/Reah explain that the Black Pearl is "indestructible" by humans and is difficult even for those with god-like abilities (ie. the two goddesses) because it's a "treasure of the gods" (presumably it was created by gods). Thus, even six months ago (not coincidentally when Saul died and Thor was wrecked) when they and others of Ys went down to the surface, they could only perform a ritual to, in a sense, ward off the beasts.
My knowledge of the Ys story is a bit haphazard at best right now, but to try to piece things together (and if anyone wants to step in and correct me, shoot away)...
Kain Fukt originally masterminded a scheme to combine the "essence of magic" (dunno how it's commonly translated) and the Black Pearl (which supposedly grants the inhabitants of Ys magic... Yunica is the sole exception, and no one understands why- I don't believe this question was ever answered, and I don't think there is actually an answer anyways, it just happened), which would then result in an immense amount of power. See Darm. The "Outsiders" (Duless and co.) are after this same thing, but you find out in Thor route that they were merely used as pawns to serve this purpose by Kain. When you talk to Feena in the tower of Rado, she explains her logic-
The Essence encompasses the earth, and due to that breeds Beasts. Veins of Cleria (due to its properties) strengthen the effects of the Essence, so you can presume that the combination of Cleria and the Essence in the earth resulted in said beasts. Duless told Thor that they (the Outsiders) had nothing to do with the spawn of Beasts, and this line of logic would support that. Feena points out that they likely came after the spawning, and, having placed their hands on the Essence (mayhaps from opening the Ark, as when Feena and Duless were talking earlier she mentioned in horror that they had opened the "Ark"), came to Ys and erected a giant tower (Darm's Tower... the one you're in). Now, why did they erect the giant tower? And you could further ask, why did they know about the connection between the Pearl and the Essence?
Kain Fukt.
The two goddesses, thus, fearing the spread of the Essence, descend to the surface, Pearl in hand, in order to seal the Essence within the Pearl. They did not tell anyone because they fear (and rightly so) of a traitor in their midst. Incidentally, Reah, when you get the Silver Bell, remarks how Thor's ulterior motive, at the onset, may have been to destroy the Essence, but in a futile manner- by infusing himself with the Essence so many times that he becomes powerful enough to destroy the Pearl, thus annihilating both. Reah calls this "mere suicide," but I don't think it's ever really clear if it'd have worked. The infusing of the Essence is what makes Thor, Kishgal, Zava, Hugo and later Duless turn half-human half-beast. Duless infuses himself with the Essence itself, which is why he's so much more "powerful."
Before Kain appears, Duless tries to... infuse himself with the Black Pearl also, I think, an action that would merely destroy the Black Pearl and the Essence (I think this is what Thor was intending to do, actually), which angers Kain and leads to the raining lance. Kain then fuses Duless into the Essence (pretty much depriving Duless of death and his consciousness, which can explain his later appearance in Ys), then infuses himself with the Essence, then furthermore infuses himself into the Black Pearl, resulting in super-powerful Darm. This gives him an "immortal" body.
In comes Thor, then, who, using his newly-repaired Silver Sword, infused with Feena and everyone else's magic, defeats Darm, sealing him back into the Essence. Perhaps because he is now weakened, Feena and Reah step up to accomplish the task they had stepped out to do (and that Thor, also being thoroughly weakened, cannot stop at this juncture)- they seal the Essence within the Black Pearl at the cost of their wings, falling into sleep until the day the Pearl/Essence awakens again.
Thus, in YsO nothing actually happens to the Pearl itself, but to the Essence instead. In Ys II, Adol steps in and destroys the Pearl (previously thought impossible, certainly impossible for the two goddesses), supposedly ending that threat. Bear in mind that the inhabitants of Ys still have magic at this point (see Ending where Thor sends down the Books of Ys he wrote to the surface) and that it's still floating, two clear indications that the Pearl is in fact quite active yet.
Of course, later on you run into the Ark (Ys 6) which was briefly mentioned in YsO, so obviously things are still in motion ^^
EDIT:
My bad, I think my memory just sucks.
I think they were saying the *Essence* is indestructible. I don't think there was any mention in YsO about the Black Pearl itself being any sort of evil, on its own. I reiterate that the Black Pearl was never sealed in YsO, it was used TO seal.
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Post by sezen0atacan on Jan 14, 2007 12:42:53 GMT -5
Kain Fact is Darm? Or is it Darm that possesed Kain Fact? Or perhaps Kain Fact is the original Dark Fact? I can't read Japanese so the final scenes where kinda confusing since from a graphic point of view it looks like Kain Fact is being devoured by Darm instead of being/turning into Darm.
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Dark Fact
PERMA-BANNED
Lurking Evildoer
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Post by Dark Fact on Jan 14, 2007 22:13:22 GMT -5
3. The black pearl as the source of magic. If the black pearl provides magic, then why does blood matter? Syon explains (and Ys II supports this claim) that without black pearl, there would be no magic. Yet, Yunica can't use the magic for some reason. Well, even though the Black Pearl is considered the SOURCE of magic for the Esterians, you can say that Yunika can't use magic very well, based on a simple principle, by making a small comparison... In our world, not everyone can draw pretty well. All of us can use a pencil and draw something... but some can actually become artists. And MOST of us, at best, might draw some"stick" people ^^. (Despite my lack of english skills, I'm trying to say that, in Esteria, everyone can use magic... but to make use of it, on the maximum extent of that, requires a certain deal of talent. ) |
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Stan
Limendy
Previously Owned Vessel Salesman
Posts: 240
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Post by Stan on Jan 15, 2007 0:06:43 GMT -5
... the Black Pearl (which supposedly grants the inhabitants of Ys magic... Yunica is the sole exception, and no one understands why- I don't believe this question was ever answered, and I don't think there is actually an answer anyways, it just happened) ... Maybe it's because I can't read any Japanese, but I totally missed this plot point. Can someone explain this to me (what little we know)? I mean, everyone else is using magic. Why is it unusual for Yunica to use magic too? Is there some conversation in the game that mentions that she doesn't need the pearl/black emelas for magic? |
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Stan
Limendy
Previously Owned Vessel Salesman
Posts: 240
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Post by Stan on Jan 15, 2007 1:25:01 GMT -5
Ooookay. I'm retarded. I guess I just figured that her skills were magic, so I didn't know how to read that "exception" part.
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Post by devilchen on Jan 15, 2007 4:55:36 GMT -5
Kain Fact is Darm? Or is it Darm that possesed Kain Fact? Or perhaps Kain Fact is the original Dark Fact? I can't read Japanese so the final scenes where kinda confusing since from a graphic point of view it looks like Kain Fact is being devoured by Darm instead of being/turning into Darm. Judging from the final words of Darm/Kain, he's actually still quite Kain. He talked with Thor about his idea of Power and Thor said that it doesnt matter whether men are weak or not, as long as they have strong will to make their choice for what is good and bad. Kain retorted that he is not defeted but would just wait to see who is right(so he waited for 700 years but to be defeated totally by Adol XD.) |
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