I see. Well, for all of that effort to go about translating and hacking the Ys V PC version, it doesn't seem worth it. I guess we'll just have to wait to see if Ghideon is able to do it for the original rom.
I thought there already was a Tales of Phantasia PS translation by AbsoluteZero... Seriously, Cless should just cooperate so multiple resources aren't spent on the same thing over and over. It's quite inefficient really...
Well after I posted that comment, I went to check on Cless' Phantasia Production site just to be amazed by the fact that He and AbsoluteZero are teaming up to translate Tales of Destiny PS2 Director's Cut!!! That's good and all but there already was people that's translating it at the side. Hopefully he'll wrap up Tales of Phantasia soon so he can focus on the two Tales of Destiny games.... because he did hint of attempting Tales of Rebirth even.... =_=
Anyway, who is the 2nd YsO team anyway? It wouldn't be Deuce would it? I seriously doubt Nightwolve will make anymore games. At least not at the price that he's demanding....
See, originally I thought the donation I gave went toward the whole team or something but it turns out that Nightwolve gobbled the whole thing up. Next thing you know, it wasn't so much a donation as it was a price for the patch.
See, originally I thought the donation I gave went toward the whole team or something but it turns out that Nightwolve gobbled the whole thing up.
Just to clarify there seen as the wording is a little misleading, it's not like Nightwolve deliberately hoarded it all and wouldn't share or anything, Deuce didn't want to charge money for the patch in the first place (he accepted donations, but wanted the patch itself to be free), so all the money earned that way did go to Nightwolve. Imagine he would've shared it if Deuce wanted him to though.
Nothing. Its blatantly obvious that its a "donation", and the end user is voluntarily sending the money on their own accord. NW doesn't even need to send the patch after they pay (Which would make him a total ass), but out of "honor and generosity", the patch is sent to you via email <----- which means its not even plopped on a server for public download.
Ah, yes, the technicalities! ;D I see now that I'm mistaken; it's possible, and even perfectly acceptable, to con international law. That actually makes everything right! ^_^; Whew! *goes back to ass-kissery and translator worship*
See? By stating the above, without mentioning any names, and stated in a perfectly positive light (which is blatantly obvious), I'm not slandering or offending anyone! That makes everything I have said here in these last two posts quite justified! ;D All because there isn't a law against not saying exactly how I feel, or even that it's a negative feeling at all, so I'm off the hook! ^_^ Yay, me!!
Last Edit: Jan 16, 2009 11:41:34 GMT -5 by Unsavory
Aw, lighten up! You only get one life in this world (unlike gaming), you may as well enjoy your time here! Happiness is living -- so live a little! ^_^
// ...besides, how often do you see me, of all the people who post here, actually look, act, and feel happy? Can't I be manic for once in my joy-deprived life? ;D
// Did laser suddenly become difficult? ;D Why'd you change your avatar?
// All this NightWolve talk brings me back to this thread. Specifically because I'm reminded of how he thinks everyone is so ungrateful. I think he should take another look at that thread, just to see how ungrateful we all were back then. *sighs*
Last Edit: Jan 16, 2009 15:39:59 GMT -5 by Unsavory
I just finished explaining my thoughts about the Nightwolve situation to another member, so I thought this would be as good a place as any to share it.
I feel it is best to keep an open mind about Nighwolve, that is, if you want to. In the end, if NW is just someone who bugs the hell out of you, that's completely your choice to not get along with him. : )
I'm sure many of his outbursts about the leak situation were perhaps a bit uncalled for and I do realize that there are a few people that poke fun at him about it here at the Ancient Land of Ys forum, but what he was asking for wasn't really all that bad from my perspective.
The way I tend to think about it is that he spent forever learning how to hack PC games and PC-Engine games, developed a nice patch and several updates for Ys I & II Complete, a Xak III translation patch, an Ys IV Dawn of the Ys translation patch, a rip and translation patch for the Ys Typing Tutor game that came with Zweii 2, Turbo-Rip, a really cool program that rips actual PC-Engine games perfectly so that translation patches are guaranteed to work, and he did all of that for free, for the benefit of the Ys community.
Then he started on the Felghana patch, realized just how nice it was turning out, but also how difficult it was and he decided to do something a little differently this time around in that he would make the first releases of the patch be donation only, whereas anyone could donate whatever they thought was reasonable, and then a month or two later, release the patch to the public free of charge. But what happened was that someone dropped about a dollar or two to grab the patch from NW and then proceeded to leak it to the rest of the Internet. I'd be pretty upset too, if someone had come along and was that inconsiderate of the work I had done, and I'd be less likely to work on any kind of translation patch ever again at that point.
That's pretty much how it went down, but then a few people started telling NW that he was wrong to be getting that angry over a leaked patch and that he shouldn't have been charging money for in the first place. That hit NW pretty hard since he's someone who believes strongly in the capitalist free market policies and that something that bears quality should not be subject to question regarding whether or not the author wants to charge for it. It's a sticky subject for sure. But Nightwolve's approach was still an objectivist approach.
Ironically, the same thing happened to a programmer who developed the first and only working Phillips CD-i emulator. He spent forever working on it and then when he decided to release it, since it was the only one of its kind out there, he decided to charge for it. That gave rise to an entire internet drama for people in emulation circles, because most emu users are complete freeloaders that are not accustomed to buying games at all, and they didn't see why they should pay for something that is going to allow them to play games for free anyway.
Perhaps the only thing that I really can criticize Nightwolve of is that he should have known beforehand that someone would have leaked the patch. It was bound to happen, especially with how everything gets leaked on the internet these days. I think he was honestly hurt by the fact that such a trust had been completely broken by an Ys fan, no less.
And what Varion said was true. The original plan was to have Deuce share the donation for their time spent, but Deuce didn't want to do that.
I see nothing wrong with donating to help someone's cause or reward time and effort spent. When I get Ys VI and run that translation patch for the first time, I'd be more than happy to donate to the group responsible for the patch. It's a no brainer for me, because that is the type of person that I am. Same goes with Wyrdwad and his translations. If he'll accept a donation for his time spent, I don't mind buying him lunch on me. I feel like that is the least I could do for something I really want to have.
I know that not everybody shares in that same kind of mindset, or principle, but I think Nightwolve was trying to change that and failed.
Last Edit: Jan 16, 2009 19:41:27 GMT -5 by SkyeWelse
It was the execution that threw me for a loop. I'd have been perfectly happy making donations (hell, I even tipped Deuce if that's saying anything) when they're not being begged/asked/pleaded/pan-handled for, not unless extenuating circumstances call for it.
By my definition, "the internets is an asshole" doesn't fit the bill -- the internet was an asshole to me all my life, I don't believe that anyone should receive special recognition for being victimized by the hatred which spans the world wide web. I know that sounds cold, but I've learned just as well as NightWolve has, that the world is a cold place, and it's only going to get colder as we grow older. We don't have "mommy" to hold our hands anymore -- it's just us, and the big bad world!
I've objected to the actions of a publically humiliated, condemned, melancholy fan-translator -- but I can still say that he should take pride in his work, and all of his accomplishments. NightWolve isn't a bad person -- he just makes alot of judgement calls which are unpopular and easily objected to.
We both follow an entirely separate set of laws, rules, regulations, and morality altogether, so it's not hard to be so objectionable. The hard part, is being big men, (or being a big man and a big woman, depending on what gender is speaking with NightWolve) setting aside our differences and treating people as human beings -- not the person that disagrees with your/my/our politics, your/my/our ethic, your/my/our morality. In the back room at work, there's a sign that states something to the effect of "Being open-minded means setting aside your differences and coming to the realisation that the other person can have an opinion which is just as valid as your own and everyone else's." -- if I could recall the exact wording, I'd quote it in its entirety for this topic.
// I realise that this is a complete 360 from my previous posts and I'm sorry. I'm kindof the human rollercoaster if you couldn't tell. ^_^;
Last Edit: Jan 16, 2009 18:41:17 GMT -5 by Unsavory