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Post by Justin on Jan 16, 2009 18:40:05 GMT -5
Long sob story about the plight of a translator... Sorry but I don't agree with you one bit. The whole point of doing any of that is because its a hobby. If you want money for your work, apply at Atlus or something. If you can't deal with having to do something you love and sharing it with others, then don't do it. This is not directed at any said translators, or members, but as a very general comment, seeing how this is always a very sensitive issue here, which I think is lame. Last time I checked, its illegal to alter or change another companies copyrighted software. Its also illegal to make a profit from it. The reason is simple. The work should be paid for, and the work should be done by an in house employee. Its the same thing as burning a dvd, and making a custom cover. "Zorg, you should pay me for my awesome custom cover, because the official company wont provide one". Doesn't make much sense, and I have no sympathy for that ideology.
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Post by SkyeWelse on Jan 16, 2009 20:16:00 GMT -5
@ Unsavory Fieg and Justinzero: You both make excellent points here in that we each have different views about illegal translation work being done as a hobby and then being sold for money. Like I said, it's a sticky subject. On one hand you do have the "dark fact" that it can be considered illegal to profit from altering someone else's code. But it is that modification that has been in debate since the days when arcade cabinets and boards from Atari were first being sold, and then modified and re-sold again by a separate company. These guys were doing it as a hobby, but then decided to sell their efforts. Of course, it was kind of a different situation since in that respect, the original code was not changed, only amended with new code. But the main idea behind what they did is still under debate as far as what is considered right and wrong.
I think that in some ways, I agree with you in that someone else's code and therefore their copyrighted material should not be redistributed for the profit of a set price, but I believe that the original plan that Nightwolve had in mind was not to keep it that way forever. I don't think it was his intention that everyone HAD to pay for it in order to get it, but rather individuals who cared enough to donate money for his time spent on it were able to get the patch early. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think if he had stepped it up further to make a set price for the patch, I don't think I'd agree with that completely. Of course, now it seems that it has turned into that type of situation since he didn't release the patch officially to the public since the leak happened, but who knows. Given time, maybe that will change.
And you're right, Unsavory Fieg, in that the internet, or "interwebs" as I usually call it can be a pretty cruel place and shit does indeed happen. I know I've had my fair share of headaches and internet drama participation, politics over the years and we each need to eventually take things for what they are online and deal with it so that we make our online experience better. We can ultimately choose what kind of experience we wish to have for ourselves based on how we can go about attacking it or shaping it so that it makes the situation better for us. I really hope Nightwolve will eventually drop that anger he has for what happened, because in some ways it isn't really worth holding onto all that anger if you want to get something good out of the internet, because people generally aren't going to care if you are having a bad day. And that's the harsh truth.
I posted what I said earlier because I do get along with Nightwolve and I wanted to explain at least how I saw the situation as a whole, which was a bit more in Nightwolve's favor. But I do see that some of the points that you all are making are indeed justified.
In the end, one can really only chalk it up to having two vastly different opinions on what happened and move on from there. I'm actually hoping that all of us, including Nightwolve, can move on from all of this and get along again in time.
-Thomas
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Post by Justin on Jan 16, 2009 20:32:24 GMT -5
I am not taking anyone's side, and I am not favoring anyone more than the other. I personally don't agree with charging for a product that isn't yours. I can steal cereal, stuff it in a new box, and sell it, but its illegal. If you can't publicly download the patch, and you have to ask for it, and you can't get it unless you "donate" then its called a "sale". The exchange for goods and services for currency.
Personally, I couldn't give a rats ass about who is mad at who, which person said what, who goes to church on Sundays, and who is working on what patch. Both "parties" love Ys and support the community the way they want, and I see nothing wrong with that. Its my issue to deal with when deciding if I support another persons ideals.
Ultimately, Id rather pay Falcom, or a licensed company for an official translation.
No one here hates Nightwolve, and I think there are maybe 2 or 3 people here that have met him personally. In all honesty, we all exchange contact with text, so if there was anything to dislike, it would be text on a website, which doesn't actually exist physically. How can you dislike a guy you haven't met. I hate that its come to this, but quite frankly I am sick of hearing about it. Deuce and Nightwolve used to be big members here, and I really miss Deuce being around. The guy totally helped me with Ys 4, and he was a great guy to chat with. The whole situation blows, but it needs to just be done. Its not an issue if the issue doesn't exist. Personally, I can reassure you, there is no reason to defend anyone.
Fug, my brain hurts now....
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jan 16, 2009 20:40:53 GMT -5
I'm actually hoping that all of us, including Nightwolve, can move on from all of this and get along again in time. I agree and couldn't have said it better myself! I have goodwill and I honestly do hope that NightWolve comes back to the community. I know we've had our share of differences, but he's not a bad guy. Again, it's just that he's made some choices that a few of us don't agree with, and are legally questionable choices at that, but that doesn't make him a bad person at all -- and I find that by all means, it's within his grasp to return and get along with perhaps one of the kindest fanbases on this side of the internet!
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Post by SkyeWelse on Jan 16, 2009 21:02:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I miss having Deuce around as well. He was a really cool guy and its a shame to see him leave. And yep, there is definitely something to be said about the Ys fanbase. I really enjoy the company of this community quite a bit, even more so than that my own gaming forums that I've been running since 2004. I'm trying to turn my forum around so that it can be a pretty cool place, but honestly, I come here for a breather and I'm definitely more at "Ys" here. Man, I'm on a roll with the puns today! : )
-Thomas
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Post by Justin on Jan 17, 2009 1:37:06 GMT -5
Which board do you hail from?? Perhaps Ill be an immigrant their for a while.
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Post by SkyeWelse on Jan 17, 2009 2:25:26 GMT -5
Which board do you hail from?? Perhaps Ill be an immigrant their for a while. Sure, you're more than welcome to join. Though it's not quite as as cool as this place. lol Basically, it's a forum for MiraiGamer.Net which is a domain I've been using for various video game related projects since 2002. I've pretty much opened the forums into various site related categories that are specific to each of the MG.Net affiliated sites. I guess it'd be kind of like a gaming project webring more or less. Some of the forum categories and sites are my own websties, while some belong to gaming projects that other people have been working on for awhile, but either needed forum or webspace to get things going. I pretty much open it up to anyone who needs a bit of help, just so long as their project shows signs of serious validity. Most of the fans there now are ones that are interested in discussing a freeware game and soon-to-be-released WiiWare title called Cave Story, which is a phenomenal indie game. A lot of the CS members work on their own mods of the game to share with others. We're about to make some pretty significant changes to the forum though. Redesign the forum template, add a forum arcade fuction with leaderboards, and a gaming holiday system as well as "hopefully" organize the forum more. lol -Thomas
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jan 17, 2009 12:40:01 GMT -5
That is exactly where I stand, but I'd welcome him back if he returned to ALoY.
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Post by Justin on Jan 17, 2009 13:42:55 GMT -5
SkyeWelse - Send me an invite through PM once you finish your redesign, I would love to check out your board.
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Post by SkyeWelse on Jan 18, 2009 18:30:05 GMT -5
SkyeWelse - Send me an invite through PM once you finish your redesign, I would love to check out your board. Sure thing. It might be awhile before it is ready though. This college semester has been something else and that forum is kind cooking in a slow-cooker next to the stuff that's on a back burner, next to the main meal. Wyrdwad - I didn't know that was his plan to set a set price for the Ys Orgin patch. I guess I don't really agree with his choice to do that, but I can see why he would definitely decide to do that now after everything that happened with the donation plan for Felghana. I kinda wish though that if he did want to earn money for his time spent on developing the patch, that he would at least keep it to a temporary period of time and just come up with a better way of distribution that would prevent a future leak situation, but I guess that would be his choice to make it permanent or not. Anyhow, I'm glad to hear that many of you do still get along with NW, even if you don't agree with his actions. -Thomas
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Post by Kimimi on Feb 3, 2009 10:34:44 GMT -5
I don't mean to drag up a well flogged horse, but the vitriol on display here after all this time doesn't help anyone at all - it doesn't stir any sympathy up in people who might have wanted to "donate" money for a legitimate patch and well... it just needlessly kicks up an incident that happened years ago. I'm sure someone with his skills and "...thousands of my programming hours across several years..." would want to be remembered for something more than this.
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Post by Justin on Feb 3, 2009 17:57:50 GMT -5
Oh Jesus, that was a nasty read for sure. He sure seems pissed off.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Feb 3, 2009 18:15:54 GMT -5
I don't mean to drag up a well flogged horse, but the vitriol on display here after all this time doesn't help anyone at all - it doesn't stir any sympathy up in people who might have wanted to "donate" money for a legitimate patch and well... it just needlessly kicks up an incident that happened years ago. I'm sure someone with his skills and "...thousands of my programming hours across several years..." would want to be remembered for something more than this. *sigh* =/ I feel so sorry for him. I never dreamed he would take it that seriously. I mean, 2 years long... Man, why live in such obscurity? I wish he could stay in peace with his own self..
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Feb 3, 2009 23:42:31 GMT -5
XD Pie hole... oh man, that's great! *impersonation* I shall now hold my breath for 365 days, or until I get laid. If I don't return, you'll know why. O . O " // Actually, all of this reminds me of 2008, where I hated everyone and swore off both friendships and relationships, swore in to a life of solitude, to be a recluse and all that jazz. Why can't everyone else be as easy to fix as I was? XD OMG, BOB IS BACK!!!
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Feb 4, 2009 0:07:17 GMT -5
I should've recognized it! :o That show was awesome! It sucks how it got canned though, I wanted to see more, but I only saw the last ep!
// Bob's even more obnoxious on his new YouTube vid, where he pretty much tags a store with all kinds of posters and junk related to "bob's game".
I have to wonder if this isn't all a part of some crazy random marketing technique.
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Post by Justin on Feb 4, 2009 1:00:46 GMT -5
I think Maggot is really bob, and he is pulling wool over our eyes. Im on to you Jackson!!!
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Feb 4, 2009 2:10:29 GMT -5
I don't really like "bob's game", and I kindof do like the idea of programming a game for the DS or the PSP, but nahhh. ;D There is a bit of a resemblance in our histories, except I'm not whining to Nintendo. I'm purchasing a dev kit upgrade and resuming my project.
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Post by Justin on Feb 4, 2009 15:42:05 GMT -5
Have you ever thought about XNA as a possibility?
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Post by SkyeWelse on Feb 5, 2009 23:44:27 GMT -5
I don't mean to drag up a well flogged horse, but the vitriol on display here after all this time doesn't help anyone at all - it doesn't stir any sympathy up in people who might have wanted to "donate" money for a legitimate patch and well... it just needlessly kicks up an incident that happened years ago. I'm sure someone with his skills and "...thousands of my programming hours across several years..." would want to be remembered for something more than this. Yeah... I know what you mean. I really wish he hadn't posted something so spiteful towards the Ys community in general because it does paint a very sour image of himself. I would think that he would want to be remembered for his contributions to the community, not the blog articles he has written about the leak. I don't know, to be honest, the whole thing kind of bums me out a bit because I've been in talks with him over possibly starting up another Ys community again. I was kind of hoping that it might be something of a fresh start for his site and community, but then he posted his most recent blog about the leak anniversary. I'd really like to talk to him about his aiming his anger at anyone who happens to read his blog, donators included. We are talking a bit more often now, but I've been very busy with my own schedule and problems as of late, and I'm not even sure I know a great way of how to go about discussing something like that with him. It's just such a personal subject to him that I'm not sure he would see it if from our points of view, meaning from that of those who have already donated or were considering donating. -Thomas
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Post by Copyrighted Name on Feb 5, 2009 23:52:39 GMT -5
It's just such a personal subject to him that I'm not sure he would see it if from our points of view. If what he's written on the left of his site is any indication, he wouldn't.
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