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Post by HJ on Dec 14, 2009 15:49:01 GMT -5
I think it's cool you're so committed to this, and I do respect that, but to be honest I just have zero interest in speedruns. They just take out the enjoyment of games for me. So, now you know why I haven't responded to this topic. I don't really think there's any reason to get your panties in a bunch, though, I personally think Valkyria Chronicles is an amazing game, but the topic I made about it got like... 5 replies. Sometimes one's interests just doesn't coincide with everyone else's.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 14, 2009 16:18:25 GMT -5
Like I said earlier, if people just aren't interested in this, that's fine by me. But if most people truly aren't interested in this, then why has this topic gotten the amount of views it has (supposed to be 12/1300-ish, but someone apparently got bored), yet few responses beyond my exchanges with Red Hairdo? Why bother viewing the topic at all?
In any case, thank you to those of you that have said something. It really is appreciated.
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Post by HJ on Dec 14, 2009 16:24:05 GMT -5
I'm not the one who viewed it (until now, since I'm having a conversation in here now), so I can't answer that. I think sometimes people just glance over ANY topic with a new reply if they're cruising the net while bored, though, but eh, I won't speak for anyone else.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 14, 2009 17:47:51 GMT -5
Actually, the "view" value can be changed by moderators or admins. xDDD I dunno why any moderator or admin here would do that, though. Actually, I really doubt any of them did. xDD It also could have been some sort of ProBoards bug. xD Which wouldn't be too surprising to me. In other words: don't trust all values out there. xD Also: CRIMINAL INFIDEL!!! BUUURN xD Honestly, because of that, you kinda miss 90% of ALoY. XD It's The Placeā¢. Also, to everyone else that didn't yet, do peek those speedrun videos. It's all very keen and pretty much perfect. Some movements are so keen you don't even REALIZE there was something keen going on. Plus, you get to hear, say, all of Ys I COMPLETE's tracks and to experience the whole game's awesomeness in the shortest time possible. It's quite the show! By the way, I always try to look for things that could help improve the speedrun, but I, myself, can't really help at most times since korzic figures everything out beforehand. xD
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 14, 2009 18:30:49 GMT -5
I'm not the one who viewed it (until now, since I'm having a conversation in here now), so I can't answer that. I think sometimes people just glance over ANY topic with a new reply if they're cruising the net while bored, though, but eh, I won't speak for anyone else. I guess, but it would seem to make more sense just to avoid something you have zero interest in. That's what I do. I also don't have much interest in speedruns, but I DO have an interest in Ys I & II, so I'm always curious to read about what new techniques you're using - and if they sound interesting, I'll check out the video to see them. I don't comment, because I don't have much to say... but whenever there's a new reply in this topic, I always at least read it. I do that for every board on ALoY except The Marketplace and Forum Games. This, on the other hand, makes a bit more sense since you're at least interested in certain technical aspects. There's actually quite a lot of minor glitches I've come across in these two games, but I haven't publically mentioned a lot of them because they're not really relevant to the topic at hand. But if you or anyone else is interested, my Filefront page has a couple videos of some bizarre glitches which won't be shown in the run (even one that makes the game unwinnable, to the best of my knowledge ). By the way, I always try to look for things that could help improve the speedrun, but I, myself, can't really help at most times since korzic figures everything out beforehand. xD Yeah, that's true. XD But it doesn't hurt to ask for other opinions, as there's always the possibility I'm overlooking something.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 14, 2009 20:05:43 GMT -5
This one (video removed by Filefront, may upload to Youtube later). It's actually a variation of the item/warp glitch. I was trying to use it to activate various events without sitting through all the dialogue, but nothing useful came of it, as it seems you need to reach a "trigger point" within a scene before the game considers it "complete". In almost all cases, that point apparently comes too late to be of any use, and the scene needs to be re-activated normally. This one is a special case, though. Anyway, when escorting Tarf back to the Lava Village, using a Warp right when entering the village will seemingly cause Tarf to disappear. I've searched everywhere I could in the game up until that point, and he's nowhere to be found. Normally, he'll be right where you left him, but not in this case. I'm guessing the game considers him to have technically been escorted to the village, but due to the warp, the game also doesn't have time to fully activate the cutscene (it barely starts at all =p). The escort mission is probably deemed as "complete" the moment you re-enter the village with Tarf on-screen, so the game doesn't think you have a need to escort Tarf anymore. But, since the cutscene doesn't get to the point where Tarf and Ruba are reunited, Ruba apparently thinks he's still missing, and so there's no way to re-trigger the cutscene (I'm assuming), making the game unwinnable.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 14, 2009 23:17:01 GMT -5
Oh, definitely, but then again, I'd imagine most people wouldn't even think to try such a thing. Especially not when you're so close to completing the mission.
Still, it's amazing that's the only game-breaking thing I've found so far. Falcom seems to have done a pretty admirable job in regards to not allowing sequence breaks and the like. If it were me designing the game, I probably wouldn't have thought to put triggers within cutscenes (at least, I think that's what they did...), just to have it check whether or not one was activated, and if so, consider it "complete".
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 15, 2009 20:30:41 GMT -5
Regarding the run, I think I'll just keep that latest first segment attempt and move on. This next segment I'm probably going to end before the leveling in Jira's Basement. Even though it's a bit shorter than the first one, it will also probably take a while to complete satisfactorily, as the item/warp glitch is a bit of a pain to pull off (let alone getting everything else right).
Speaking of Jira's Basement, I found another glitch (vidoe removed by Filefront, may upload to Youtube later) that seems to make the game unwinnable. After ringing the Evil Bell to summon the monsters, the game probably doesn't expect you to walk back upstairs (there's a small delay where you can move around), despite the fact that the event can be triggered anywhere on the lower half of the screen. So, if you go upstairs right as the text box is appearing on-screen (the event's "trigger point", apparently), the game probably thinks the event was already activated - despite not getting to the point where the wall is destroyed - as the Evil Bell will no longer re-activate the scene. Incidentally, a similar thing can happen for the text boxes that appear when clearing the two basement screens, but there are no negative effects in that case (yes, I'll be abusing that).
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 15, 2009 21:00:21 GMT -5
Wow, neat find there. XD
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Feb 5, 2010 19:53:03 GMT -5
Just a little update regarding the status of the Ys II run. I've barely even attempted the second segment since finishing the first one. Quite honestly, I don't know that I'll want to finish this, given the "luck" involved with pulling off some of the glitches and such. Right now, I'm looking into some very bizarre glitches, and then I'll get back to recording the actual run. Whether or not I'll see this through to the end, I don't know, but if I do end up cancelling this, I'll try and make a post to explain some things. Regarding the video, what's happening there is that activating a warp during a screen transition will cause it to fail, and the game screen will turn all white. Aside from the failed warp, that by itself doesn't appear to mean much, as everything seems to function normally (except that you can't see, unless you save and load). However, one very peculiar side effect is that if the screen before the Ice Ridge of Noltia is in the "all white" state, then the Dalles/Darm scene at the end of the corridor is a bit unusual (actually, I've once managed this without the white screen effect, but am unsure how). In fact, given Dalles' positioning, it doesn't seem to be that scene at all, but rather a glitched form of the Dalles boss fight. Unfortunately, the scene causes the game to lock up, unless you can manage to get the warp menu to stay active the same time the scene is activated, in which case you'll need to warp and re-activate the scene normally. Activating the warp in the "normal" scene will simply cause the game to crash (which is what's happening at the end of that video).
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Feb 11, 2010 0:06:55 GMT -5
Alright, it looks as though nothing else is majorly affected with the failed warp bug. For some reason, it appears that using it when entering the Zava and Dalles battles will cause Zava, her minions, and Dalles to be facing right instead of down. Even more unusual is that Zava's "human" form is never shown to be facing that way normally. Nothing else appears to be out of the ordinary, except for this. It's a way to skip the final screen before Darm, in a similar manner to the previously mentioned glitched Dalles scene. In this case, you simply have to let the warp menu stay active until the screen changes; canceling too soon will just load the normal final screen before Darm. Anyway, I wanted to ask for someone to check if this is possible on a 2nd+ playthrough. The reason being, is that later playthroughs will contain some additional scenes, and one such scene occurs right after entering the final "boss door". I'm curious to know whether or not that scene will interfere with this glitch. I'd check myself, but I don't want to do another playthrough just for that, and besides, I'm looking to keep the game unfinished until the speedrun is complete (to avoid seeing those extra scenes). EDIT: Never mind, I went ahead and tested it myself... It appears that the glitch is still possible, and that extra scene can be skipped.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Feb 20, 2010 0:58:54 GMT -5
Segment 2 is up. With some slightly better enemy placement, it can be improved by a second or two, but this is very likely what I'll stick with. Unfortunately, the mistake of still having the Mattock equipped instead of the Evil Bell may make segment 3 (will go up to the Stone Shoes chest, probably) a bit difficult to get started. Still, that should only amount to a very small time loss, if any at all.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Mar 14, 2010 14:31:56 GMT -5
Here's how segment 3 is coming along (new link below, as well as first post). Were it not for a couple of delayed enemy kills in the Ice Ridge, I'd probably stick with this attempt. As it is, clearing Jira's Basement is proving tricky to consistently clear fast, so this may take some time yet. In other news, I finally came across an "out of bounds" glitch but I don't think it will be of any use. What seems to be going on is Adol is being forced downwards in a (presumably) "non-moving" state, due to trying to run up those slopes without equipping the Stone Shoes. In Roo form, the game treats monsters as a "wall", and Adol needs to stop sliding eventually, but since they're blocking the spot where Adol's supposed to normally stop, he will eventually wind up in the nearest downward "free" space - in this case, the "out of bounds" area. If only this would allow you to get near enough to chests near edges (perhaps with the Stone Shoes chest, but that would likely be more trouble than it's worth)... If that were possible, then the Illusion Mirror could theoretically be obtained without the Stone Shoes (although the Shoes would still be needed to reach Tyalmath's lair). Then again, that would still require warping, as that is the only way I know of to exit the "out of bounds" area once you're completely in it. Unfortunately, this glitch currently seems to be possible only in the Ice Ridge of Noltia, although I've yet to test it anywhere else, as I don't know how to go about it.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Apr 26, 2010 20:44:11 GMT -5
Well, I've noticed that some of the Filefront videos have been deleted (without notifying me beforehand, again ), among them my previous segment 3 attempt. Since it will still likely be a while before this segment is done satisfactorily, I went ahead and loaded my latest attempt to YouTube, which is where I'll upload all my stuff from now on (may upload the glitch videos there, not sure). Regarding the video, it's still not quite what I want, but it's still a very good run nonetheless. Still, I'd appreciate feedback, especially if you think my basic methods are flawed. In any case, I'll probably remove this video once a satisfactory attempt is recorded. However, if the lack of feedback here keeps up as it has been lately, I'm just going to modify the first post of this topic when something new comes along.
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undamned
Lyus
Hyper Solid Shooting!
Posts: 120
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Post by undamned on Apr 27, 2010 11:20:55 GMT -5
korzic! I haven't been around for a while, but I'll have to check out your latest vids and let you know what I think -ud
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Apr 27, 2010 13:51:39 GMT -5
Looking forward to it. It's so quiet in here lately, and while that may be a sign that nothing's wrong with my progress, it's still a bit disheartening.
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Post by nayrex on May 2, 2010 18:07:29 GMT -5
How do you get yours to record i cant seem to get my recording program to recod it
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on May 2, 2010 19:04:23 GMT -5
I use a recording program called Fraps, and then use a program called VirtualDub to get the files to a reasonable size to upload. For the most part, Fraps runs pretty good, although occasionally I find that some recordings come out choppy.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on May 5, 2010 20:54:47 GMT -5
So, thanks to Gillian Seed, I've been messing around with the Eternal versions of these games. Not much to say about Ys I in regards to speedrunning it (as opposed to Complete). For Ys II, however, there are a couple of bugs that may actually make the Eternal version a better choice for speedrunning (credit goes to this site, not me). First is the bug to skip Druegar. At first, I didn't think that would mean much, as I'd probably still need to kill him to help level up for Zava. That is, until I learned of a glitch to get extra EXP from Zava. So, that leaves me with the question of whether to continue running the Complete version, or should I go ahead and switch to the Eternal version? Seeing as how I've already recorded the first two segments of the Ys II run, I'm leaning towards continuing with the Complete version, although I'd like to hear other opinions.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on May 6, 2010 14:29:37 GMT -5
Hmm, you guys are right. I'll stick with the Complete version, if for no better reason than to maintain some degree of consistency between these two runs. That, and running the Eternal version may make it harder for people at SDA to verify the run.
As far as running the Eternal version later, I think the only way I'd do that is if PC TASing (tool-assisted speedrunning) becomes a possibility in the future (already possible to a certain extent with some DOS games, but it still needs further development). Even then, there's no guarantee that I'd do such a run. One run is hard enough dealing with all the "randomness" and such, especially during a normal speedrun.
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