|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 16, 2009 12:30:33 GMT -5
English, while it DOES make sense, also does violate many rules in itself, since it gathers from so many other languages.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skeletore has a boner on Mar 16, 2009 14:10:53 GMT -5
Well first let me say that language is not structured logically at all, if it was we wouldn't use metaphors several times per sentence like we do, metaphors in-fact are us attempting to make rationality out of the world well attempting to preserve economy of sound,the notion I mentioned earlier that, generally, we try to convey the most amount of thought with the least amount of words. This is why we say "bought" instead of "buyed"...buyed does not violate any morphological rules for English, and the reason we use it is simple economy(bought is 1 syllable and buyed is 2) , you see that of the 1000ish concepts to be expressed by humans, those with the highest frequency inevitably morph to lower syllable versions("irregulars").
I understand what you're getting at, but i think that's far less likely. The reason being His and Her are already highly irregular forms used for an extended period of time, where both its and it's are fairly new. As I've said before, it's only in very recent times where we've started encouraging amongst ourselves personification of objects.
English until recently had no gender neutral terms, this is where sterotypes of cars being women and such occured, because we would use his or her well referring to objects. That has become increasingly less common as it, their, etc have gained prominence in common usage.
Hearing "yeah, she's my car" or "I'm washing her later" is very archaic speech at this point, even though it was very common when cars were new. Not only that, but we have begun doing that with people.
Who's purse is that? That's their purse.
My point being, that even though his's and her's seems like it would be logical(and in-fact we actually do that well speaking, that's his book and those are his things, have different phonetic transcriptions and are different senses) it's far more likely those terms will eventually stop having common usage.
As I said, going by trends over the history of English, we're slowly transitioning to gender neutrality in our language, this is already in-grained in our minds and only getting more pronounced with each generation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skeletore has a boner on Mar 16, 2009 14:21:22 GMT -5
Actually upon studying the etymology of his and her(s)...they already went through that phase in development and it was phased out around the 16th century.
her's and hisis were already used in English in the past and simply contracted into even more irregularity.
Today we use her(and well we do still use hers , it's on it's way out going by the british national corpus), hisis is simply his now. Hisis,which as a note isn't his's because that's phonetically impossible to pronounce , just like in french where if have le envoyer you contract to l'envoyer, but if you have "as elle" you contract to a-t-elle instead of a'elle.Anyways... Hisis is what is called "double possessive", which we still use in the example I noted in the previous post, even if we don't spell it out. Her(s) is still in transition to dropping that s.
If it follows that same trend, in 500 years we'll simply use "it" as singular, plural, and possessive. Of course, in 500 years it's likely Modern English won't even exist, much to the chagrin of extremist prescriptionists I'm sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Mar 16, 2009 15:42:27 GMT -5
Hm. I see. That was long, but interesting to read.
I didn't know gender neutral terms were that recent in english, I thought they were always there.
Well, "latin-oriented" languages don't have gender neutral terms afterall, so I see it's not impossible. Well, in those, when there is, it's hidden. There's no word for "it".
Like, in portuguese, italian and spanish we say "Is raining" instead of "It is raining".
"Buyed" and "bought"... that caught (look... not "catched" xD 2 syllables) my attention in particular... somewhat explains the existence of many irregular verbs in all these languages out there. And other things. Neat.
Thanks for these explanations. Though I still currently maintain my position that prescriptive grammar is really important (not that you're saying it otherwise) and that it is important to follow its "rules" (whether they can be ruled or not) due to many social (and even cultural) matters.
That's my final word on the matter, I think, as of today.
|
|
|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 16, 2009 17:57:17 GMT -5
Random lyrics for a black metal song I'm writing with my band! Its not formed yet, just random lines mind you... Its more of a parody than anything.
AND HERE IS THE DAY TO DAY DEATH IN US ALL
LETS KILL EACHOTHER, HAVE A FUCKING BALL
I'LL TEAR OUT YOUR HEART RIP OUT YOUR EYES
LISTEN TO THE BEAUTIFUL PAIN IN YOUR CRIES
Let out all of your regrets
Let out all of your fears
Let me lick off all the blood
Let me fuck away your tears
Happiness is not aloud
You must accept your fate
Then you can stand up proud
And express your sickening hate
QUALIFY ME
FOR THE FILTH
QUALIFY ME
FOR THE MURDER
QUALIFY ME
FOR THE FILTH
QUALIFY ME
FOR THE MURDER
VERIFY ME
FOR THE GRIEF
VERIFY ME
FOR THE SLAUGHTER
VERIFY ME
FOR THE GRIEF
VERIFY ME
FOR THE SLAUGHTER
Let me show you
How I love you
Let me show you
How I want you
Let me show you
How I'll rape you
Let me show you
How I'll haunt you
Let me show you
The guilt that taunts you
PERPETUA
ETERNAL FEAR
PERPETUA
NEVER ENDING
PERPETUA
DIVINE ASSAULT
PERPETUA
ICICLE DISASTER
PERPETUA
SORROWFUL EVER AFTER
PERPETUA
HAPPILY NEVER AFTER
|
|
|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 16, 2009 18:01:25 GMT -5
Haha, well as for Black Metal isn't that the point?
Haha, I love and hate this stuff. I got like 4 hours worth of it in a .rar from a friend and its both awesome and horrible.
|
|
|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 16, 2009 18:04:12 GMT -5
The chorus:
PERPETUA
ETERNAL FEAR
PERPETUA
NEVER ENDING
PERPETUA
DIVINE ASSAULT
PERPETUA
ICICLE DISASTER
PERPETUA
SORROWFUL EVER AFTER
PERPETUA
HAPPILY NEVER AFTER
|
|
|
|
Post by Skeletore has a boner on Mar 16, 2009 18:45:57 GMT -5
Esperanto is. And Esperanto is an ideal language. All language SHOULD be striving toward a perfect set of rules with no exceptions. Instead, it heads in the opposite direction, and chaos ensues. This is why language sucks, and needs to be reinvented.  -Tom Esperanto is hardly a perfect language...I'd even say it's a horrible language. It ignores one of the primal tenets of human communication, economy. It is not efficient, therefore it is not perfect. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Mar 16, 2009 18:53:32 GMT -5
I want to taste Esperanto myself someday to see how it's like.
But one language at a time. xD
Too many things to study and analyze.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skeletore has a boner on Mar 16, 2009 19:57:23 GMT -5
*insert appropriate snide remark to patronizing comment here*
Are you gonna come beat me up if I tell you I teach people in a way you don't deem fit? Gonna tell on me?
Where do you work? I think I'll drop by, and if you're not doing it in a way I like, I'll let everyone know.
Seriously...
|
|
|
|
Post by Skeletore has a boner on Mar 16, 2009 20:14:25 GMT -5
Wow.
|
|
|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 16, 2009 21:05:39 GMT -5
O:
C'mon guys, this is getting immature. Well it already HAS gotten immature and one of the participants is a moderator. Cool it off, and if this continues can we lock this thread, please?
|
|
|
|
Post by Skeletore has a boner on Mar 17, 2009 0:28:31 GMT -5
I like how you turned that around on me. If you don't want to be insulted, don't insult others first.
|
|
|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 17, 2009 10:43:38 GMT -5
Sorry for playing Modman earlier, I just thought it was going outta control! Its done, good!
Now I'm going to my friends house, so I'll post some other lyrics I wrote and see the FLOOD of replies afterwords!
Three kingdoms
Standing Tall
So aloft, anytime they could fall
Above all the others,
their earthdwelling brothers
But would it be worth it?
To live so grand?
High in the sky?
Looking down at the land?
And we look above
At you, pirched in your gold
Gilded and royal
Our homes looking old
But we are happy
You are not
You have what we want
We got what we got
But we live with purpose
Although always in pain
Your life is worthless
Your death is in vain
We carry on
Never complain
We're working for you
We're over-working for you
We're slaving for you
We're behaving for you
We both breath the same air
We both see the same seas
You can have your sorrow
forget the dead tomorrow
Yet we can have happiness
And bring it with us to the grave
Never intermingle
Always alone
Even with your loved ones
Even at your home
Hearts cold as steel
Forgetting to feel
We can't have a full meal
But our feelings are real
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Mar 17, 2009 11:09:43 GMT -5
Rhymes and sounds good. xD I didn't understand much what these 3 Kingdoms would be, though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Incog Neato on Mar 17, 2009 11:59:30 GMT -5
I like how you turned that around on me. If you don't want to be insulted, don't insult others first. How about you two boys get a room and continue this off this forum? >:E |
|
|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 19, 2009 14:03:55 GMT -5
The title of the thread prompted me to write this, although it doesn't follow standard format, because I didn't bother to pay attention to it.
A Fond Farewell
Auf weidersehen
My friends
A Fond Farewell
My Family
I'd like to say
Goodbye
I love you much
Don't cry
I'm off to fight
A war
I'm off to play
To score
For my country
At the goal
I'm off to save
Your loving soul
Some say
Men are bad
But most see it
Like it's sad
But look at the
Happy, and maybe
You'll see
What we
Have brought
To us
Our life
Our love
Or loss
Has brought
Enough
Pain
But inbetween
There is still hope
To stay afloat
On our rocky
Boat, on our
little moat
For man
To land
Into heaven
And see
What we
May be
Would be
Too much
For me
But I can see
That we
Are more
Than we
Explore
We take
For granted
What we
Are granted
Our lives
Our souls
Our silly
Life goals
And some
May say
That on
A cosmic scale
We fail
That we're
Not much
But look
At this
We're not
On a
Cosmic scale
We're just
Small men
In our
Simple den
Called earth
Lets make it
Worth living
And dying
Laughing
And crying
Fighting
Protecting
Mirrors
Reflecting
We must
Stand strong
And get
Along
Because
I am gone
Its all too soon
I never got room
To grow
To show
Who I
Really am
But maybe
With this
You'll see
The bliss
That we
All have
That we
All must accept
And love
And show our love
We know
We love
A fond farewell
I must tell
That I must go
Away
Today
And maybe tomorrow
I'll come back home
But for now
War is what I know
A young man died
His family cried
But somehow
This one
Young man gave all
The knowledge
To live
To share
To give
To love
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Mar 19, 2009 14:24:30 GMT -5
Liked that one the best so far.  Nice job. Hmmm... but damn, I forgot how "auf weidersehen" is written.  My German is so rusted. I think it was "Aufwiedersehen". I wonder if there's any German member here to give me a hand. |
|
|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 19, 2009 14:31:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I always spell it wrong...
Also, the three kingdoms refer to NOTHING. At all. I dunno, it just worked.
|
|
|
|
Post by AllenSmithee on Mar 19, 2009 18:37:10 GMT -5
I PORSTED NEW RYLICS
ENGRISH ARE MY FIRST RANGURAGE
|
|
Nice job.
My German is so rusted.
