jtb
Rheboll
Posts: 14
|
Post by jtb on Aug 8, 2009 20:18:02 GMT -5
I've played both Mask and Dawn.
Mask has that Ys charm but is burdened by mechanical issues. Most notably, the hit detection on bosses is screwy, comparable to SFC/SNES YsIII (also Tonkinhouse); magic can only be used while stationary, effectively taking offensive magic out of the equation; and found equipment is literally thrown at the player in great quantities while bought equipment remains out of reach until it is obsolete. I'm also not too happy with the direction of the story, particularly with regard to the depiction of the ancient winged people (didn't the game mention they enslaved and ate humans?). This characterization clashes a bit with I and II. I suppose Feena and Reah didn't get the memo. Mask is a great game, but it feels sloppy at times.
Dawn is brilliant. The game has it all: a huge world (by Ys standards) with lots to do, complicated shmup style bosses, and maze-like dungeons filled with goodies in the style of Ys I and II. Incorporating an earlier dungeon into the final area was genius. There is also a lot of optional stuff to do like alchemy and the Leo equipment. Pacing is slower than Mask (Adol isn't at his usual full sprint here) but the bump system keeps the player constantly moving. I also find the story to be much more satisfying. Sure, there are some discrepancies--Sara is alive--but to be fair, Hudson never killed her off.
Considering how important YsIV is in defining the winged folk, and as a consequence the world of the Ys games generally, let's hope Falcom tackles this entry in the future.
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Aug 8, 2009 22:18:22 GMT -5
Hmm, actually, I don't think the hit detection on bosses is screwy, to me it felt OK. About purchasing weapons and armor, well, I only had that issue with the last set of purchasable equipment, but it sure is present. As for the magic, you are right. I tested it just a second ago to reconfirm and that's the case. Also, if I might add, magic in this game wasn't useful at all: consumes too much MP, delivers unsatisfactory damage, isn't as sophisticated and they all are essentially the same (shooting stuff). You also don't have anything like DoY's "Idol" item. The only exception is Hero Sword's Heal Magic, which is extremely useful if you are in a pinch.
As for that part of the Winged Ones eating people (xD), I was about to create a topic for discussion regarding DoY's and MotS's plot, story etc., including that. But since you already brought it up... (so if you didn't play both and don't want to be spoiled, STOP READING. xD) Yes, the Celceta sage in MotS says that the Winged Ones and the humans were living in harmony and peacefully in Celceta, but when the word spread about the Winged Ones' true intentions with the humans, war between both factions broke out: the Winged Ones wanted to eventually just enjoy the humans as mere food. Adol talks in MotS, and what he exactly says about that is "...". xD lol Yeah, that bit didn't make any sense AT ALL: it contradicts the whole of Ys I and Ys II, and even Ys VI later on. And probably Ys ORIGIN as well. And maybe even YsOiF. When I played DoY, I wanted to know what happened to ancient Celceta, and if there was any mention to such a thing: there wasn't, and DoY's story on that regard, including Celceta's past, made a lot of sense, which is the very opposite of MotS's case. But I must say that, aside that (which is putting A LOT aside xD since it's the pretext for many things such as Lefance, the war, Winged Ones' extinction etc.), MotS's plot was just fine.
Though I also have another critique about DoY, which is its very screen: it looks like it got waaay too widened, and you can't see things above and below you as well as from the sides, and Adol's and anything else's sprites were quite big. MotS's case is the very opposite, as the sprites aren't as big and still look nice (especially Adol, I think), and the screen is a nearly perfect square, and you can see a lot ahead of you from all directions.
I also would really, really like to see Falcom actually making Ys IV for themselves eventually, and when/if they do, it would be best if they didn't follow any of the previous versions absolutely: they should find a way to get the best out of both versions (and who knows if the PS2 versions didn't throw in any nice idea as well). I think all Ys fans would love an Ys IV ETERNAL.
|
|
Sardien
Othclos
Everybody explore until our completion percentages reach the sequel!
Posts: 153
|
Post by Sardien on Aug 9, 2009 7:47:06 GMT -5
The hit detection for MotS is definitely kind of screwy, very noticeable on the first boss. The thing I dislike most is how damage just drills into enemies/Adol, there's no knockback at all. I've always hated that in games.
I think DoY was made a bit slower than I and II to reduce the 'bumping through enemies' glitch. It has without a doubt the smoothest bump system on PCE.
As for the screen size, I actually disliked how much you could see in MotS. You could see dead ends and chests miles away, which didn't help the somewhat lazy dungeon designs.
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Aug 9, 2009 12:02:20 GMT -5
About the screen size and visibility, it wasn't like that in the Ys Book I & II predecessor as well, which is also why it felt a bit odd to me and I didn't quite understand the change. Though all that are just nitpicks.
|
|
korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
|
Post by korzic on Aug 20, 2009 18:34:10 GMT -5
Played Mask of the Sun a few times in the past. And thanks to Red Hairdo, I was able to give The Dawn of Ys a try this past week. It's a pretty fun game, but Mask of the Sun is more enjoyable to me.
DoY's story I found to be the more interesting of the two (mostly because it feels like an extension of MotS, for the most part), but it felt unnecessarily drawn out at times. Also, there were quite a few times where it felt like Adol could/should have been killed on the spot, but wasn't. I understand that's a common story element, but it seemed over-used in DoY. On the plus side, the voiced dialogues were a nice addition to the game, but due to them being in Japanese, I'd frequently need to pause to read Deuce's translation of what was being said.
Gameplay-wise, I have to say I enjoyed MotS better. The thing that bugged me about DoY was that even if I gained a few levels in new areas, I still didn't feel overpowered (not until the very end of the game, anyway). That's why I gained those extra levels in the first place, to make the coming areas/bosses a little less stressful. For that reason, as well as the low EXP that enemies often gave (I usually got no more than 16 EXP, up until the final areas), I often had to play DoY in small doses; not so for MotS.
Still, it was a pretty enjoyable experience, but given the choice, I think I'd sooner play MotS again than DoY. DoY simply feels too long (feels weird to say that about a Ys game XD).
|
|
korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
|
Post by korzic on Aug 20, 2009 20:44:40 GMT -5
I hate grinding as well, but in Ys games, I usually make an effort to do a bit of grinding because it tends to pay off without wasting too much time. It's not that I necessarily mind doing "average" damage to enemies, it's just that if I take some extra time to level, it should feel a little more rewarding. In The Dawn of Ys, it was like "Why did I bother gaining those levels?"
Anyway, while I say I'd rather play MotS than DoY at this point, it remains to be seen whether or not that statement will actually hold up the next time I play MotS.
|
|
|
Post by Red Hairdo on Aug 20, 2009 21:25:03 GMT -5
I personally didn't really grind in any Ys IV. XD Sometimes it was kind of needed in MotS, but it didn't take more than a minute or two, as the game plays super-fast and leveling up also is quick (not too much EXP required). Anyway, both games are awesome, but as I said, I favor MotS's more fast-paced gameplay as well. But I also thought Ys IV DoY had a more interesting story. I want Ys IV ETERNAL so badly. I wonder if people already suggested that to Falcom...
|
|
|
Post by serguma on Aug 24, 2009 7:23:25 GMT -5
Finished Ys IV DoY, really cool, I love every piece of it .
|
|
|
Post by lailmith on Sept 14, 2009 11:19:34 GMT -5
I have been playing MotS on sness but havent finished it yet ._. Im stuck on the last bosses >> but I hope I ll someday finish it I have also tried DoY but from the little I tried it MotS felt better so I didnt touch it much after it, probably one reason is that I cant understand what people say there very well.
|
|
|
Post by Ranzor on Sept 14, 2009 13:38:29 GMT -5
Have you patched it? Only the voices remain in Japanese after that, and there's a script for that. Really, you should give that game a chance.
|
|
|
Post by bishopcruz on Aug 27, 2010 18:25:09 GMT -5
Well, I'm doing my second playthrough of DoY right now on my PSP, been on a hella Ys kick after Ys Seven. Still like the game but I know this might be heresy, but it might just be my LEAST favorite Ys game. I mean it is a better game than MotS or Wanderers on paper, but it doesn't quite feel like an actual Falcom game, it's a little hard to put into words but I'll try:
The game feels a bit like fanfiction to me. Sarah being alive I can kinda understand (though why Hudson kept her alive in 1 and 2 in the first place is something I still wonder about to this day) but past that it just seems that the entire game is a poorer paced rehash of Ys 2. MotS' magic was crap, true enough, but at least it was a new original system. Every Ys game has had its own way of doing magic, but this one literally takes the Ys 2 magic system and copies 2/3s of it wholesale, and slightly changes two others. (Light magic becomes seeker, and we get Freeze, which is a mix of time and fire)
On this playthrough I just got back to Minea and this part seems kinda tacked on. There are some fun little bits added on though:
-Rosetti and Dio are bastards, they are actually selling Adol's equipment BACK to him. OUCH! Rosetti even tells him as much!
-How is Pim still in business. He has no merchandise except for the Ruby and Neclace Adol sold him 2 years ago. And even though those haven't ever sold he'll still buy more from the dude. OUCH!
-Lilia is a crazy stalker. I really like her a lot, but in this game especially she is kinda crazy. Ever wonder if the reason Adol never tells her he is leaving is because he's scared of what she will do? I mean look at this line: "I hoped that if I waited under this tree, you'd come to see me.... I came here every day, believing it would happen."
Just saying that's a little psycho.
Anyhow I gotta go so I'll post more later.
|
|
RyuKisargi
Chryolos
Beating a Dead Horse
Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap.
Posts: 554
|
Post by RyuKisargi on Aug 27, 2010 18:40:40 GMT -5
How are you playing it on the PSP?
I played through the SNES version years ago. I'm doing it again.
I'm back at Polmarock with the invasion-thing.
|
|
|
Post by bishopcruz on Aug 27, 2010 20:06:39 GMT -5
PCEP emulator with custom firmware, I used TurboRIP to rip to that format and it works great, pretty close to perfect, not too much slowdown, its no Magic Engine, but it gets the job done.
Got a little further, and man everything in this game does too much damage, and it really doesn't curve up with levels/armor. Way too much time is spent standing around waiting for HP to regen. Older game I know, but I didn't remember Books 1 and 2 being this bad.
The other issue I have with this one is it really makes the world feel tiny. Adol warps from Minea to the water village, delivers a cure. Moments later Adol has fallen down a hole and miraculously Dogi is there (in one of his greatest scenes ever!) to save the day! How in the name of God did he get there so fast? Was an entire area cut or something? Because BOY that was fast.
|
|
RyuKisargi
Chryolos
Beating a Dead Horse
Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap.
Posts: 554
|
Post by RyuKisargi on Aug 27, 2010 20:09:10 GMT -5
My PSP is running CFW. I'll have to look all that up, only emulator I have on my PSP is for gameboy games, nothing else seemed to run OK.
|
|
|
Post by Rebel40000 on Aug 27, 2010 20:21:22 GMT -5
I haven't played Ys IV... yet. I'll get around to it eventually, though!
|
|
|
Post by yotaka on Aug 27, 2010 22:50:24 GMT -5
PCEP emulator with custom firmware, I used TurboRIP to rip to that format and it works great, pretty close to perfect, not too much slowdown, its no Magic Engine, but it gets the job done. Does that handle the two data tracks the game has? Because I've tried getting it to run on a PSP and every time it's just frozen up when I try to start it (yet I-III work beautifully, though I had to re-encode the music so it wasn't all distorted). When the object of his bromance is in danger, Dogi can break the laws of physics. It is known.
|
|
|
Post by Peytral on Aug 28, 2010 2:17:46 GMT -5
Dawn of Ys is an amazing game. It was my favorite until I played Seven. :U
|
|
RyuKisargi
Chryolos
Beating a Dead Horse
Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap. Bap.
Posts: 554
|
Post by RyuKisargi on Aug 28, 2010 4:11:02 GMT -5
The only thing that puts me off about Dawn is the fact there's no subtitles.
Japanese > Me.
|
|
|
Post by Peytral on Aug 28, 2010 4:15:21 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bishopcruz on Aug 28, 2010 15:16:31 GMT -5
My PSP is running CFW. I'll have to look all that up, only emulator I have on my PSP is for gameboy games, nothing else seemed to run OK. Game runs fine, I use PCEP 0.83 me, ripped as I said using TurboRIP. At the end of the game right now, it does have some amazing boss battles and a friggen awesome dungeon (Escherspace) I have to say the end boss is one of the worst, most boring boss fights in Ys history. Especially his last form, it is soooo long and sooo, boring and what makes it worse is the fact that getting his is so punishing one misstep can make you have to replay the entire fight. Annoying.
|
|