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Post by Varion on Sept 21, 2009 18:57:14 GMT -5
One of these is bound to be needed eventually, so here we go. Basically this is the thread to ask those of us who can read Japanese questions about the plot and whatnot, and uh... we'll try to remember the answers, I guess. Try and mark spoilers though. There's no dedicated spoiler tag here, so just use this: [.color=2F3238]TEXT GOES HERE[/color] with the dot removed, and put something as spoiler-free as possible at the start so people don't accidentally read it, if you can. Like 'scene before the third boss' or something. To start with, here's two in progress plot summaries. Floofy is working on one here - omgfloofy.livejournal.com/While I'm doing one here - www.soranokiseki.com/files/ys7summary.htm
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 21, 2009 20:05:38 GMT -5
And this is why Ys VII won't be another Ys V. xD Thanks.
I'm not checking those for a while, though. I. Can't. xD
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Post by Incog Neato on Sept 21, 2009 20:31:41 GMT -5
And this is why Ys VII won't be another Ys V. xD Thanks. SEVEN.XD!!!!
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 21, 2009 20:49:17 GMT -5
Somehow I was expecting such a post. xD Ideally I should have written "7" instead, but it wouldn't match with Ys V's roman numbering.
[/offtopic]
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Post by Varion on Sept 21, 2009 20:57:05 GMT -5
Considering the box has both Ys Seven and Ys 7 on it, I don't think Falcom care all that much ;p
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koa
Limendy
Gettin' in touch with my feminine side
Posts: 248
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Post by koa on Sept 21, 2009 22:33:38 GMT -5
So seeing how one of the boss themes has traces of "The Strongest Foe" in it, are there Galbalans in this game or is that track merely for cameo purposes?
To be honest, I know absolutely nothing about this game storywise or anything else. ._.
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 22, 2009 8:47:33 GMT -5
Did you already finish it as well, floofy? Wow, I thought I was the only one so far. Anyway, about the plot, who could have guessed Tia was the one behind it all (forgive me if I am wrong about it since I am no good at Japanese but that's the impression I got; I did expect Scias to be an antagonist but not Tia)? That whole cycle thing reminded me of FF X with all that last hope getting risen and destroyed and destruction and rejuvenation gimmick. The last boss was fun; I had most trouble with the lower part since I kinda sucked at Elk, Mishera, and Dogi. I do wish there's an alternate ending where Tia doesn't disappear, though. I mean Aisha went through the trouble of convincing her to live but she disappears anyway since there is no need for the maiden anymore now that the cycle is broken? Jeez. BTW, is there any mention of the Eldeen civilization or the Emelas in this one? Again, the above was all I managed to catch; way too many things went over my head so the complete story summary would be most welcome
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 22, 2009 14:47:13 GMT -5
Regarding the final battle, the very last one is going to be Adol on his own so better prepare for that, too.
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Post by Varion on Sept 25, 2009 20:29:39 GMT -5
Wheee, finally up to the final dungeon, and summary updated to reflect as much. It's getting quite long >.>
Incidentally, anyone able to think up a good translation for 狭間 as it's used here? I know what it means, I can get a mental picture of how the word... feels, but I can't think up a good English translation that carries all of that in it.
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 25, 2009 21:23:51 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for making the summary, Varion. Some twists start making sense now although the plot still leaves a lot to be desired. The story feels rushed up towards the middle and the end and the whole "Altago heading towards its destruction without any cleansing" motive for villains is really sketchy; I mean the prime minister and others were pain in the neck but at least they weren't doing something catastrophically stupid like calling up some ancient evil (I am looking at you Count McGaia) and I definitely didn't get the impression that Altago's (completely) corrupted and is beyond saving without drastic measures. I hope Falcom gives more polish to the plot when Ys VII gets released in other platforms.
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 26, 2009 0:17:54 GMT -5
Well, I did finish through the game so I have seen all the scenes and have some grasp on the story; the story summary mostly filled me in on things that I did not know about at all. Plus, I had more problem with the pacing. As soon as the villains show themselves, the plot suddenly rushes towards the end (Ys VI had the same problem). Compare Ys: OiF and Zwei 2 where villains show up from the beginning and actively try to thwart heroes (or manipulate them in secret), manage to become threatening, and most importantly keep the flow of the story in steady fashion. Zwei 2's plot worked well because it had some good build-ups and character interactions. Even though I couldn't understand most of them at the time, I could still see them and became interested in knowing what characters are doing. Sadlly, Ys Seven really lacked those aspects. That's why I hope Falcom would add more polish to the plot if Ys Seven gets released in other platforms.
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 26, 2009 0:58:43 GMT -5
Yes, I am aware that there are some parts of the plot that I don't fully comprehend yet. Still, I will definitely disagree that "sudden villain" thing is done well for Ys Seven. IMO, it's good if and only if one could connect everything that happened up to that point with that villain and realize how dangerous he or she truly is. This allows that villain to make an impact on his or her actual appearance (as a villain) and provide the good tension to the story as he or she takes more active part in antagonzing the protagonists. Ys Seven's villains just don't fit the bill for me. I'd like to outline my reasons for not liking Ys Seven's villains but I don't think I can do it without spoiling anything about them.
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 26, 2009 3:09:27 GMT -5
My dislike of Ys Seven's villains mainly comes from their lack of actions in the game. As a result, even if their identities got revealed and their ultimate goal is revealed, I find it hard to trace events that happened earlier to those villains and the impact such revelation is supposed to bring is diminished. For a good example, in Ys OiF, for most part, Chester and Lord McGaia are the main antagonists. Then, it turns out that the Bishop Garland is the true puppet master, manipulating Chester's desire for vengeance and McGaia's ambition for his goal of Galvaran's resurrection. The Bishop Garland appeared since the early segment, seemingly being a good priest and helping Adol in his quest. Then, with the revelation, the player goes back and sees that Garland's interaction with/help to Adol was an act to use Adol for his scheme to ressurect Galvaran. This realization of the Bishop's frightening control of people magnifies his impact in the reveal, making him a formidable villain. And since you brought out villains from other games, let's go slightly off topic for a sec; it seems we disagree on what we see as a good villain. I will give you my opinon on those games' villains and state what I want in a villain. In Okage, it was actually easy to spot that Belioune is not what he seems to be for the exact reasons you gave from the beginning of the game. That actually took out the surprise factor when the reveal came in. He was still a great villain but not what I would call one of the best video game villains. I will definitely disagree with you on FF VIII. Ultimecia had the potential to be the best villain in the FF series (Edea's time as villain definitely shows what Ultimecia is like and makes her interesting) but poor pacing and writing screwed up her chance to develop into an actual character with understandable motive (please tell me what the hell is time compression supposed to do, damn it). Legend of Heroes: Prophecy of Moonlight Witch is an interesting case. It's only after I finished all three games in the Garghav trilogy and then went back and played it again that I could fully understand the motive of the main villains. The game by itself didn't do them justice. You need to play all three games (or at least 3 and 5); otherwise, you can't claim you truly understand the plot. It probably helps that I am not very fond of hidden villains in general. In fact, I love it when we know who the villain is from the beginning and let us observe his or her development throughout the game. It brings another perspective to the game. Plus, one major problem that I find with hidden villain is that such villain is almost always in the position of power until the end and can easily snuff out heroes at any moment in the early or the middle yet do not do so for whatever reason. I'd like to have heroes and villains on the equal standing, so their interactions do not entirely consist of protagonists getting manipulated into doing what villains want (I am looking at you Chrono Cross); it makes the conflict between them that much interesting. Lastly, I will maintain that for Ys Seven's villains, the possibility that their identities are implied or subtly hinted since the beginning is very unlikely. I am not claming that it's impossible but knowing their identities, I would say it's very slim. Plus, the Bishop Nicholas didn't have any implication of being evil or even indecent until his reveal but still managed to be an intimidating villain by his actions throughout the game.
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Post by Incog Neato on Sept 26, 2009 4:41:16 GMT -5
Was anyone else here annoyed with Mustafa's insta-rage against Adol and party when he saw them with his sister? >_>
He's the village chief or something, right?
To me, it was kind of silly to see someone of that status to immediately flip-out without listening to reason. 9__9
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 26, 2009 12:08:07 GMT -5
Oh well, we can't go on with the argument until you finish the game so let's leave it at that. I am looking for more plot details in blogs and forums as well. I have this general rule of thumb that whenever a butler/chamberlain shows up, he is going to be either a badass ally or treacherous advisor. To be fair, Beiloune was neither (kind of...) but that still didn't stop me from raising suscipicion and looking for details once he appeared, which led to those hints and (correct) assumption that he is a villain. My three favorite villains in video games are Ghaleon, Luca Blight, and The Transcendant One. I gotta admit that as much I like "the villains-heroes on the equal standing from beginning to end" idea, I have yet to see an example of that done well in video games.
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 26, 2009 12:19:08 GMT -5
Nah, Sephi could have easily achieved his goal by just killing Cloud as soon as he got what he wanted from Cloud (coughBlackMateriacough) but didn't. Plus, Cloud had issues of his own to work with before he could match Sepihroth evenly so I would hardly call it a fair match.
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Post by Ranzor on Sept 26, 2009 12:19:15 GMT -5
How about Naked Snake and Big Boss?
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Sept 26, 2009 15:01:49 GMT -5
If the final boss of Gurumin had actually pulled a Wind Waker and gobbled up some of our heroes, I would have been more excited about the battle.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Sept 26, 2009 15:19:41 GMT -5
It was obvious, because they showed him "before" (in his "normal" form), and during his villainy. I'd never have missed it! The resemblance of the characters is just too uncanny to pass up. He was a neat villain though. // He even had a decent-enough motive to do what he did. The "villain" of Eternal Sonata was just AWESOME. Seriously, I wouldn't have seen that one coming, in spite of all the foreshadowing!
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 26, 2009 15:21:13 GMT -5
I don't know if sudden villain was sudden. Varion and I were talking about all the foreshadowing towards the reveal last night, and we were kicking ourselves for not seeing it. Mind you, this isn't the first time that Falcom's done this in a game. To such a degree, as well. And in that other game, looking back on it- you can see things leading up to it via foreshadowing and stuff as well. Oh really? Do you mind telling me what were the foreshadowing that Tia is the main villain before the reveal? Scias, I was able to tell, just with cutscenes and impression, but I didn't realize that Tia is the main villain until the reveal. Given her interactions with Raud (as seen in the story summary), one could guess Tia was getting mad at Altago in general (and may have taken part in winds of destruction) but to realize that she herself is the main villain was surprising. It was obvious, because they showed him "before" (in his "normal" form), and during his villainy. I'd never have missed it! The resemblance of the characters is just too uncanny to pass up. He was a neat villain though. Not to mention what happened at the end of the very first stage. I became suspicious right after that.
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