What will the next Ys game be about?

[daq]

Bear in mind, I have not ever had the chance to read some of the supplementary material (to my great sorrow), so correct me with great vigor if necessary. And I have absolutely no idea of what happens in Ys V.

There are also several series spoilers here: You have been warned!

Okay, for the longest of time, the series was about Adol vs evil. Dark Fact, Arem, the clan of Evil, Galbalan, etc. Their characterization was, and is pretty much misanthropy: Burn up the land, destroy everything in their path, have a plan to kill everyone in sight, or somewhere around those ideas.

After all of them get slaughtered, we got Ys VI. And of course, Ernst.

There we find out how things got screwed up so badly in the past, and part of an explanation why the Eldeen aren’t around anymore.

I don’t know if there were any third parties involved with the humans (who knows, maybe Arem did a 2nd age Sauron and manipulated the ancestors of Ernst/Geis to do something bad, and then some) but we know why they did it: They wanted the Power™.

Ernst is a bit more explicit about it: The power to rule with the Ark is enough motivation, even if it means getting his hands dirty. Everything else is just dressing.

Now admittedly, wanting to control all the weather in the world is, how to put this politely, not the mark of a paragon of morality. But if anything else, we can understand why: Human, simple, and very sinful temptation.

The Romun navy commander in VI was all about greed. Chester in the remake of Ys III had too much raaaage. Lord McGuire could not find a healthy way to work with his confidence issues. Many people in Altago are pretty callous to the point of being unreasonable jerks. Tia simply cannot accept in any single way what’s going on in Altago: Blowing up the joint is actually acceptable on a certain level for her.

As the games go through the chronology, the story keeps returning to how people can make the wrong decision, and it’s not all about their inherent nature, (not that it stops them from long sprees of bad decisions anyways that spiral out of control.).

So where will Falcom go from VII?

Plot hooks that I remember:
In VI, we had that bishie bard deeply interested in both the history of the Ark, and thought that having the tabulas could lead to his redemption (somehow). Truthfully, not much of an example.

In III, we’ve got the mercenary from Garman, who’s perfectly willing to greet Adol with hospitality if he ever shows up at his house. This sounds perfectly normal for Adol and the guy, except for two factors:

1) The guy came to Felghana looking for Mercenary work; apparently there wasn’t any at home. Yet.

2) The charm he has is for a God of Garman. That God is the God of War over there.

(And we know how much that Adol tends to go to the places that end up having misfortune hanging over them.)

War. To my knowledge, Falcom has never put a player in the midst of it. Many of the barriers to an all out conflict between Altago and the Romun Empire have been taken down, thanks to the removal of the Dragon Energy. There are now very very few artifacts left from the old Age, putting everyone in the world on a sorta even playing field.

And finally, it’s the scenario that allows for all the morally complex characters that you can shake a stick at if Falcom decides to keep with the theme they’ve got going on there.

(commence pointing out all the errors, missed information and problems in my ideas )

[Ascended Mermaid]

Loch Ness and wee people?

Actually, when you were talking about Romun going to war, etc., I was kinda thinking about the Nazis. Fullmetal Alchemist had a tie-in with Nazis, so... why not Ys? Romun would join forces with Garman, of course. Adol vs. Adolf... that would be in bad taste, wouldn't it? On second thought, I wouldn't want them to release a game that would have almost NO possibility of being released in America. (Though again, we have the FMA movie and American History X.)

[Mutagene]

The possibilities are almost endless, considering Falcom have barely scratched at Adol's legacy so far... personally I'd like to see the new world adventure, as I'm a sucker for mesoamerican architecture and culture. But this is Falcom's decision, and hoping won't sway it.

[schlagwerk]

May 11, 2010 22:57:06 GMT -5 Wyrdwad said:

Heh, what would they be called in the Ys world? The Nezi party?

-Tom

The BADDs. Oh wait, that was Bionic Commando...


Ys VIII will be about Adol coming to terms with his erectile dysfunction and we'll get an explanation on why he keeps running away from ze women. It'll be resolved by the end of the game and that'll pave the way for the Ys dating sim

[SkyeWelse]

Not that this is cannon, but I do believe Ys Tragedy takes place in Britai. Not that it was during Adol's time, but it didn't seem like there was a whole lot going on there that made the place that interesting.

What "Real-Life" land is Garman supposed to represent, btw? Germany?

-Thomas

[Este]

I thought Ys Online was supposed to be set in the Romun Empire. Never played it, so I can't really verify that.

I'd like to see these setting for future games:

-Romun Empire
-Tigres of Criella or whatever it is that's mention in the Ys Eternal loading screen
-Eldeen: I can't remember if it's the name of the island or the people or both, but I mean the island from which the ancient civilization came from
-Anywhere in the new world as previously brought up
-Anywhere out east since China was a bustling civilization at the time when Adol was supposed to have existed

That last one brings me to another point actually; if Ys is supposed to be set 1100 years ago, I don't think the Nazi party existed at that time. I'm not sure if an Ys game would work well in the midst of a war. I feel like if that were to play out, Adol would have to act as a 3rd party who ends up bringing an end to the conflict and peace to the land. That being said, I guess I should expand my list a little...

-A game set aroung any war involving the Romun Empire
-Crusades, anyone?

[Ascended Mermaid]

Seeing as Ys is a different, alternate world, it also has different rules. Having Nezis wouldn't be impossible. Not only are there different races and racism, (Rehda vs. Eresians vs. Eldeen) but there too could exist different religious factions and -- just as there exist people who believe they are superior in Ys, there could too be Nezis. There could be a Xanadu crossover too, though I'm pretty sure they're reserving the whole Genghis Khan story for Xanadu.

Come to think of it, the Eldeen are very similar to Nazis. They believe they're superior to human beings, typically have blonde hair and blue eyes (as well as their human descendants), and are known for genocide. They've already fallen, haven't they? Or so we think... an Eldeen story would certainly kick ass.

[Este]

I kind of feel like the whole 'Nazis are Evil' theme has been overly played out, especially due to Indiana Jones.

[Este]

I thought it said in Ys 4 that they were from an island in the middle of the Atlas Ocean. I got the impression it wasn't Canaan but rather Alma traveled to Canaan from wherever they were from. My memory's admittedly sort of hazy though.

[fireinthehole]

Hmm, nice interpretation there, daq.
Looking at the pattern they followed for the past few recent games, I get the feeling that the very next game will be a remake. We had Ys I&II Eternal/ Comlete (remake) -> Ys VI (new) -> Ys: OiF (remake) -> Ys Origins (a hybrid of remake and new) -> Ys Seven (new). Falcom loves remakes and we fans love remakes just as much as new games. And Ys Origins and Ys Seven were new games with new storylines, so why not go back and remake Ys IV/ V as a breather? The story and characters are already done for them.
For your last point, I actually don't want morally complex characters to appear Ys games because Ys is all about that idealistic hero saving the land from mysterious evil and giving hope to people around the world. Morally complex characters would feel little out of place. It's similar to Zelda in this regard. Also, morally complex characters do have their problems just as bonafide evil villains with a capital "E" have theirs. I had a long discussion with wyrdwad about why I didn't like villains in Ys Seven; I didn't find them sympathetic at all so the ending kinda threw me off. And even for recent Ys games, there were unambiguously evil villains who were pulled off very well. For instance, for Ys OiF, we had Garland, who used Chester's desire for revenge and McGaia's greed to resurrect Galbalan. And for Ys Origins, we had Kain Fact, who coldly plotted the destruction of the kingdom of Ys and treated his own sons as specimens for experiments. These were truly evil bastards who provided genuine sense of threat and it was satisfying to give them much deserved beating.
Also, looking at the mention of Ys VI, if I remember correctly, Ernst says that Adol's visited Esterior (Ys I&II), Felghana (Ys III/OiF), Celceta (Ys IV), and Xandria (Ys V) and goes on to say Adol is closer to the mystery of Eldeen than anyone else. So this means Xandria (and thus the kingdom of Kefin) is somehow related to Eldeen as well. Considering Ernst created three homunculus (the important concept in alchemy) and Kefin from Ys V SNES is heavily associated with alchemy, Jabir may be the member of the clan of darkness who, after the fall of Eldeen civilization, went to Kefin, ensnared Kefin's king with the powers of alchemy/emelas, and started experimenting madly to create the black emelas (similar to the philosopher's stone and the sacrificial ritual from the original Ys V), which was the clan's original goal.
As for the next new Ys game, I think many people said this before, but I want it to take place at the Romun empire. Adol indirectly went against the Romun empire several times, so it would be interesting to see the circumstances under which Adol will come to go to the Romun empire and Romun people's reactions to him will play out. Furthermore, I seriuosly doubt Ernst is the last of the clan of darkness that Adol will face; Romun seems to be the headquarter for these people. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the clan of darkness founded the Romun Empire. Also, the Eldeen civilization can get more clarification as well. While we know what caused the fall of the Eldeen civilization, the exact circumstances under which the clan of darkness tried to steal the ark of napishitim from the Eldeen race are unclear as of now. For instance, was there any other motivation than just power? How did the Eldeen race treat humans and Redha in general? I wonder if Falcom answers all these or they will be answered at all.

[fireinthehole]

They did remake the old bosses from Ys I & II. And there were some portion that come from old Ys I & II (like the evil ring, the cursed corridor, and that part that forcibly sends you to the lower level). I did think about writing it as new but changed it to a hybrid since there were considerable retooling of old stuff; it's just my own opinion about what remake is.

[daq]

Thanks everyone for your replies! Normally, my imagination is waaay too wild to allow for trying to accurately predict...well, anything, so I'm glad that my extensive fling with violent RTS and FPS games hasn't clouded my judgement here.

Yet.

(no, seriously, when I finished Sora no Kiseki SC, my first thought was "so what happens in the Third?!" and my second was "Liberl Kingdom vs Nod from Command and Conquer 3, who wins?!? )

Morally complex characters would feel little out of place.

That is a valid point.

But I also feel that there is room for both idealism and ambiguity in the world of Ys.

As Falcom updates or remakes the games in the series, what I see is that when moving past the...well, non-human evil entities or completely insane beings (hello there Garland!), is that we've got terrible excuses for sentient beings or just plain out jerks.

Which is actually a step up from what came before in terms of comprehension. I haven't had the chance to play Ys Seven (or understand most of it outside of a few quick plot summaries), so I can't really talk about Tia, but her reasons, if perhaps weak, are at least put into place by wanting to ease Maya out of her pain.

And it's not just her example. Chester loved his sister and his town even though he could sentence an entire castle to death. Ernst loved his brother and had the basic decency not to outright kill the Redha chief or the captives although he had no compunctions about killing off the entire Romun fleet. What is there to say about Sister Nell?

It's not about excuses for their behavior, but about how they take their time, weigh their choices, make a decision, and run with it. It's just behind the crazy person line, rational enough to make a sort of sense, if just.

And the series keeps going for antagonists who are progressively less and less disraught or deranged. Where else is there to go to if not morally complex?

Entirely granted, how well its done depends on the quality of the writing less than what the writing is centered on. Ganondorf from the Wind Waker wouldn't be nearly as awesome as he was without his motive talk.

No disagreements here about kicking Garland in the teeth, that was epic.

Considering Ernst created three homunculus (the important concept in alchemy) and Kefin from Ys V SNES is heavily associated with alchemy, Jabir may be the member of the clan of darkness who, after the fall of Eldeen civilization, went to Kefin, ensnared Kefin's king with the powers of alchemy/emelas, and started experimenting madly to create the black emelas (similar to the philosopher's stone and the sacrificial ritual from the original Ys V), which was the clan's original goal.

...I did not ever know about this.

Everything about Ernst's actions (especially compared to people like Guruda) kinda spoke out to me as a lone wolf guy, and I always wondered about where he learned how to create homuculi, but (probably) getting it from the Clan of Darkness puts a whole new spin on my perspective of him.

Yikes.

Considering Adol's track record with Romuns (decent and awful alike), getting an insight to the (probably loco) workings of the Empire should be pretty interesting.

[Este]

I still think the Tigres of Criella will be next, but I'd rather see Rome.