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Post by gnosis301 on Oct 1, 2010 10:53:48 GMT -5
As for the reason for her not to go on adventures: Noblesse Oblige. But nobles temporarily abandoning their obligations to go out for adventures has a big part in literature. Characters like Harun al-Rashid (1,001 Nights), Gilgamesh, Edward VI (The Prince and the Pauper), Zeus (and other gods), and my favorite: Akeem Joffer (Coming to America [DON'T GIVE ME THAT LOOK!]) . Heck, even video game nobility like Graham's entire family (King's Quest) and Mikhail (Romancing Saga 3) do it!
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Oct 1, 2010 12:11:54 GMT -5
I actually like Terra more than Aisha. Granted Terra's voice acting wasn't ALWAYS up to par (that "You idiot, you moron, you sickeningly sweet bastard" line was TOO put-on, like she acted every sentence as completely separate scripts!) she did have a bratty hopelessly Adol-crazy personality to excuse her of that and I was just fine with it.
Aisha has her own brand of brattiness, she's extremely judgmental and while she did want to get out for the good of her kingdom, that voice of hers is such an atrocity that I could only have wished for her to have stayed IN the palace. Afterall, her father is dying while all of this is going on, you'd think she'd have stayed behind to make sure he was alright -- and though he wouldn't be, just to spend more time with him as his time was short regardless.
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Post by Raison D'etritus on Oct 1, 2010 13:28:26 GMT -5
MORE LONG POST FROM ME!: You make a good point Mags, she wasn't just a poor princess, she was a shitty daughter! Gnosis, I concur, of course. But good characters {not equal sign} good rulers. Granted, my own book features a mercenary captain who sets himself up as a king and continues to lead his armies into battle against his advisors' council. But that's more for martial and civic morale than for a sense of adventure or thrill of battle. And wyrd, if she'd joined Adol for the sole reason of wanting to make a difference it would be a different story. She was running around doing her own thing even before that. Granted she did have some redeeming development later, but maybe if she'd have shown more interest in her role she'd have learned a thing or two from the old man and better handled things post-coronation. Though the king obviously wasn't very good at his job either, considering how much power he allowed to his chancellor. Also, contrary to you, I quite despise the converse of Noblesse Oblige. If you think that people who put personal whims before responsibility are trailblazers then I'm afraid you may be a bit oblivious to human nature ( ). I have more respect for the self-sacrificing who put obligation first. . . mostly because such people seldom actually exist. AND, if you think that the purpose of royalty is to sit around looking pretty, you're politics needs polish, and I REALLY hope you never find yourself in a managerial position. . . and not because you aren't pretty enough! (Not that princesses shouldn't look pretty, stereotypes exist for a reason!) EDIT: why the hell is the forum eating my not equal signs?! AAAHH! Now it has my hand!!!!! NO! Not my 'postrophe!!!!
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Post by Este on Oct 1, 2010 15:36:07 GMT -5
...and my favorite: Akeem Joffer (Coming to America [DON'T GIVE ME THAT LOOK!])... Too bad, I'm giving you that look. That movie was terrible. The whole point of it was for him to learn that there's more to life than "Sowing your royal seed". The only movie I like with Eddie Murphy in it is Beverly Hills Cop, and that's because it's so bad it's good.
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Post by schlagwerk on Oct 1, 2010 16:02:29 GMT -5
The only movie I like with Eddie Murphy in it is Beverly Hills Cop, and that's because the song Axel F is so bad it's good.
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Post by Mutagene on Oct 1, 2010 17:44:16 GMT -5
Hey, Axel F is an absolute classic in my book. I used to listen to it religiously growing up.
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Post by Raison D'etritus on Oct 2, 2010 0:04:27 GMT -5
Pleas excuse much verboseness. Many words in head, fighting for escape.
It seems evident that we're going to disagree on this no matter what, so I'm going to attempt one more foray into the subject matter, and hopefully not offend while still getting my point across more effectively than I obviously have. Wyrd, you are notorious for your potential for bullheadedness, and likewise, I confess to arrogant insistance in the subjects which have received a great deal of my time. Your standpoint seems influenced by personal affinity, and mine by educational bias. Hopefully I will be forgiven any unintentional hubris in this, as statesmanship/political history/theory are subjects I have studied for some time, heaped atop the natural disposition of an ENTJ/fieldmarshal type (though I espouse that environment affects behavioral development, so the studies likely shaped the mind, not vice versa) To clear up any misunderstandings I'm going to be VERY THOROUGH --but I'm trying not to come across as too turgid and pedantic, just as I know you would be patient if I tried to correct your Japanese.
Part of our disagreement seems to stem from misaligned "language games," which means we might very well agree, but have different understandings,and thus misunderstandings. You will NEVER hear me advocate tradition. Anyone who notices my tendency to quote Nietzsche, Kierkegaard, and Napoleon will note this. Tradition and obligation are by NO MEANS in my thinking synonymous. Do you go to work every day simply because it's habit (tradition)? If so, my condolences. I hold DUTY, RESPONSIBILITY, OBLIGATION, to be of utmost importance (and things that few people actually grasp, or care to grasp), I hold tradition to largely be a collar which fetters power and thus limits potentiality.
On that note, I will never speak of what society "expects from somebody." What they NEED is a completely different story. If the masses had the right to set expectations, they would be self-governing, and the upper crust would be superfluous. Even in democracies, an official does the thinking for the masses.
As for Aisha's abandoning her post to be a better princess: abandoning a job does not make one better at it. Yes it made her a more constructive citizen, but that's because, as you said, she was unconstructive as a princess. Which had no small part to do with her shirking her duties to run around and do what she "felt was right." Your own point of her being a "figurehead" would have had more weight if you hadn't added "training." She was skimping out on her education, which was necessary toward her effectiveness as a ruler. Did you learn Japanese from diligent study? Or from going around adventuring, doing what felt right? Her resultant lack was made quite clear when she succeeded her pops, and was quite unequal to the task. Perhaps if she'd cared to learn some statesmanship from him rather than galavanting about, she could have better handled her usurping chancellor. Granted even the king seemed ill equipped on that front, as he seemed to struggle pretty futilely against his councel's push for increased strenght to the merchant caste (an unhappy inevitability in any capitalist society. . . but Ayn Rand has no place here, and don't even get me started on the Tokugawa Shogunate). The princess wasn't ready to take his place upon his passing, thus the thin veil protecting the people from the sharks was replaced by. . . Aisha.
Of coure her actions were noble in their own right, but they were contradictory to the better judgement of noble duty. Case in point: Sigroon seemed capable of doing Aisha's part in battle just fine; Siggy could NOT have done her part on the throne. It is the duty of the expendable, those like Siggy, to obey the monarch and risk life and limb for the betterment of their nation. It is the duty of the monarch to deem and ordain what and where the duty of such people lies; not to risk their own lives and jeapordize the entire nation in the process, leaving it with no head, no morale, and no power. That leads to my conclusion by means of metaphor:
If a big scary hulking end boss monsterbeast attacks you, your brain fights it. It does not, for the love of all things furry, get out of your skull and engage scary monsterbeast personally! It sends the command, which travels through the nerves, to the messengers, over the hills, and through the woods, to grandmother's house, where Adol and Siggy and everybody else are. Even if the brain is big,sharp, mean and scary itself, it cannot be risked--it dies, the entity dies. It makes the decision, the hand obeys, and the weapon (Adol) cuts. Cerebrum Oblige. Just as the king did his responsibility by setting Adol on his quest in the first place, without himself ever going out to fight. He died, hell broke loose. Imagine if he'd been the last in the line (Aisha). It is a monarch's DUTY to consider these things, and sacrifice what 'feels right' for what IS right. And at the risk of being too controversial, I actually feel that is an obligation limited not strictly to 'nobility.'
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Post by Este on Oct 2, 2010 0:36:53 GMT -5
I wonder what percent of posts on this board go above 1 paragraph in length. Sorry, Raison, but after reading 4 scientific papers, I don't have the ability to focus my eyes on that many words.
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Post by HJ on Oct 2, 2010 5:33:39 GMT -5
Good grief... if we're having discussions like this about Ys characters, just imagine what it'll be like when Sora no Kiseki comes out!
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Post by Varion on Oct 2, 2010 11:07:16 GMT -5
Good grief... if we're having discussions like this about Ys characters, just imagine what it'll be like when Sora no Kiseki comes out! I look forward to it!
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Post by Rebel40000 on Oct 2, 2010 11:07:51 GMT -5
This is entirely true. But Aisha left the palace at first because she was, well, bored and wanted an adventure not to discover anything, but to have a change in pace. Which isn't as flattering, and her first impressions kinda reflected that. To be fair, if I was in her situation I'd probably wanna get away from that dick of a prime minister, too. That said, I don't think she left simply because she was bored. It seemed more like an accumulation of 1.) Not wanting to be treated differently simply because she was a princess, 2.) Rumors of Altago experiencing "abnormalities", and 3.) Her father being slowly becoming bed-ridden.
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