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Post by Kimimi on Aug 25, 2010 23:45:13 GMT -5
Inspired by the latest Penny Arcade strip - www.penny-arcade.com/It must be lovely to run your own internationally successful webcomic with its own range of clothing, merchandise and multiformat videogame to be able to fund a constant stream of minty-fresh purchases and get all holier-than-thou with us lesser beings.
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Post by Kimimi on Aug 26, 2010 0:03:39 GMT -5
How can you say that though when so many new games don't directly support the original staff? Does Hirokazu Yasuhara get a cheque every time someone buys Sonic 2 on XBLA? Does every purchase of Taito Legends get divided into 20-odd different pieces and then sent off to each development team? I don't think so.
If somebody buys a games used then someone got it wrong -
A) The product was not worth the asking price to that user B) There were not enough copies produced in the first place and people are forced to purchase used due to lack of supply.
Used has ia legitimate place in games retail - I'm sure many people have purchased a $10 used game and then eagerly awaited it's $50 sequel. Or how many people would be able to buy a brand new full price release in the first place if they couldn't offset the cost by trading in some old games?
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Post by Peytral on Aug 26, 2010 0:19:36 GMT -5
Well, Wyrd, some of us barely even have the money to buy games used, much less new. If I'm low on funds, and I find a game I want for significantly cheaper used, I'm not just going to pass it up and not play the game. >.>
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Post by AllenSmithee on Aug 26, 2010 0:46:56 GMT -5
I'm gonna buy Ys Seven used now, jajajajajajaja.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Aug 26, 2010 1:08:29 GMT -5
I ponder too, what about PSN sales? I mean, I know the developers get the money too, but distribution costs are figured into it as well, yes? If this is the case, which most benefits the company? Producing UMDs, manuals, cases, etc. all have their own costs I'm sure, as well as perhaps a hefty amount for premium edition content as well. PSN charges you for using their services, do they not? Some companies charge up to 50%, (That's highway robbery, IMO!) I've noticed. Granted none of that is nearly as heinous as the distribution of used and pirated goods, and all piracy in general.
You know what makes me sick? Those damn fake, pirated DS games that are being sold from HK, you see them all over eBay! I wonder how they pull that crap and get away with it... I've seen some of these in person, as well; but never owned them. (Obviously I'd never own such trash!) The official seals of quality don't have their shine, the print is low quality, blurry and/or smudged, even faded. It's always VERY obvious when they do it too. You'll see TONS (I mean hundreds of listings) of DS games starting at a penny, all by the same seller.
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Post by AllenSmithee on Aug 26, 2010 1:12:07 GMT -5
Haha, I know a guy with a pirated Nightmare in Dreamland cart and he cried when I told him it was pirated.
I bullied him though so I feel bad about that... Kept stealing his games and putting them back later.
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Post by AllenSmithee on Aug 26, 2010 1:20:33 GMT -5
Oh, btw, I'm buying it Friday! Standard edition, sorry~ I ain't cool ):
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Post by Kimimi on Aug 26, 2010 1:43:10 GMT -5
How about a different approach then? People like trading in old games and it's not something they want to give up, so why don't publishers start offering rebates/special promotions for customers who either return stock direct to them or are able to prove they purchased a previous release brand new?
People have wanted things for less for as long as there's been currency, so publishers really need to start waking up and adapting to this rather than taking the "You're as bad as pirates!" approach to potential customers.
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Post by Kimimi on Aug 26, 2010 1:57:06 GMT -5
I know there's always going to be competition, but if you can sell it as some sort of special insider deal for dedicated fans then people are more likely to plump for that rather than generic trade-in #1003358
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Zoelius
Wilewarer
IF you play Blazblue on PS3 add me.
Posts: 441
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Post by Zoelius on Aug 26, 2010 2:12:17 GMT -5
In my point of view, buying a used game is just switching ownership to me, so i never see myself as hurting the industry. Because I would have already lost the chance to buy it new, even if i did , that profit is already made. Because copy shipped could count as copy sold. However for Niche titles i usually buy new, they are usually dirt cheap for a retail copy. It really depends on the price of the game for, if its 30$ i'll buy it new but if you charge me 80$, I am going to pirate it or wait for it used.
Its all about prices to me.
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Post by Kimimi on Aug 26, 2010 2:13:05 GMT -5
It's a potential avenue if nothing else, and it's better than the "SCREW YOU!" attitude to potential consumers (of new games) that's in the link :/
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Aug 26, 2010 2:50:56 GMT -5
I'm glad to see Kimimi's on top of my forgotten thoughts. I was actually thinking of a similar question, (got distracted and had to abort my reply altogether) but I have my answer now. I hope that works out pretty well! Indeed I agree people wouldn't sell back premium editions or anything that could potentially benefit them more if they kept them. Special rebate programs, coupons, perhaps even an XSEED catalogue would be awesome! You could even look into more goods, like Nall dolls, pikkard dolls, Adol dolls, t-shirts, hats, etc.; the possibilities are endless! Plus I'm sure everyone at XSEED has heard about the Nall doll idea for quite a while now, it's been everywhere on their Lunar Facebook page!
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Zoelius
Wilewarer
IF you play Blazblue on PS3 add me.
Posts: 441
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Post by Zoelius on Aug 26, 2010 2:53:28 GMT -5
With the way I buy my games and that the fact that i rarely sell my games. The logic doesn't apply well to me.
Most of the game that i spark interest in are usually couple years after release. I am quite the late catcher so I doubt i could have been the 2nd guy the bought the game new.
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Post by winterfury on Aug 26, 2010 2:58:37 GMT -5
You know what makes me sick? Those damn fake, pirated DS games that are being sold from HK, you see them all over eBay! I wonder how they pull that crap and get away with it... I've seen some of these in person, as well; but never owned them. (Obviously I'd never own such trash!) The official seals of quality don't have their shine, the print is low quality, blurry and/or smudged, even faded. It's always VERY obvious when they do it too. You'll see TONS (I mean hundreds of listings) of DS games starting at a penny, all by the same seller. like this? s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd315/winterfuryita/FakeFFIVDS/I hate this crap, expecially when they sell it at 20+ euros.
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Zoelius
Wilewarer
IF you play Blazblue on PS3 add me.
Posts: 441
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Post by Zoelius on Aug 26, 2010 3:01:19 GMT -5
Yeah I hate buying a bootleg copy of a game especially a game you're trying to collect. I just happen to bought a bootleg from a trusted friend of mine, both of us didn't even knew it was bootleg until another person i know told me the features that made it a bootleg.
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Post by Nalacakes on Aug 26, 2010 3:11:36 GMT -5
Wow, this is actually quite interesting for me, as I've never seen second hand goods in that way before. Perhaps it's because we were very poor growing up and were taught to save every penny. Our parents had the three of us when they were very young, and for about the first seven years of my life my dad was still in education, while my mum was trying to juggle a minimum wage job with raising the three of us. So we really didn't have a lot growing up, and our parents always encouraged us to buy second-hand things wherever possible, and to be as frugal as we could be. I guess the fact that my parents were sort of borderline hippies probably helped, as they liked the idea of taking something that somebody else had sold and reusing it. To this day I still buy pretty much everything second hand, and even buy an embarrassing amount of second hand clothes, despite having the money not to. I've never stopped and thought 'I could have bought this from a high street store and supported the people who made it'. I'm just happy to be taking something that someone grew tired with and giving it a second lease on life, as those are basically the values I've held my whole life. I guess I never really thought about where my money was going. I feel a little bit bad now. I suppose at least I can take comfort in the fact that the chain ends with me, as I almost never sell anything. Still, while I definitely get the point that the developer doesn't profit from second hand sales, I could do without the self-righteous attitude. Comparing those who buy second hand to pirates is a little bit much. I understand that they're basically the same thing to a software developer, but morally there's a world of difference, and suggesting that those who buy things second hand are essentially the same as those who are breaking the law is frankly quite offensive. Also, I think by saying that used games are bad because two people are getting to enjoy a copy of a game that only counts as one sale, you're opening up an awfully big can of worms. Surely if buying used games is immoral because two people get to play one copy of a game, then lending a movie or CD to your friend is equally so? Or buying a microwave when you're living with other people, which you all end up using evenly? Or giving a shirt that you don't use anymore to a younger sibling? Surely if you're going to take such a hard edged approach to used games, you have to say no to all these situations too?
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Post by Nalacakes on Aug 26, 2010 3:26:51 GMT -5
No no, I didn't mean you. :) The self-righteous attitude I had a problem with was PA's, who did compare piracy to second hand goods. ;D Like I said, I get that it's a completely legitimate criticism, and it's one I actually never really thought about.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Aug 26, 2010 3:31:24 GMT -5
Fai: That's a good point. I didn't really take it to heart personally, as I know there are exceptions such as us. Granted, I'd once returned a used copy of Final Fantasy Tactics to buy a new copy with the manual. Curiously, that new copy came from eBay, so I didn't support Square -- the guy who bought it to make money off of it did. I don't like selling my games very much. I even keep them in my backloggery so I know which games I have to buy again, and they're on my amazon wishlist as well. Granted I'm not good with money either... but I need to be for my future, for our (that is, Alyssa's and mine) future. Frugality does seem like the only option, in spite of the fact that I really, really want to support the developers et. al. -- as I too desire to be a developer. I'm not fond of my hypocrisy in the least, but there's only so much I can do. Survival comes first. winterfury: That's awful! That's exactly what I'm talking about, right there! I can't believe people do that, they may as well be sticking their own names on it, taking the credit as well, seeing as they have no problem with taking their income and all of their work, to sell as their own!
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Post by winterfury on Aug 26, 2010 3:38:05 GMT -5
There is a slight difference between a physical proprety (like a car) and an Intellectual one (a software).
When you buy a car or any physical item you have a phisical possesion of it, so you can sell it whenever you want, when you buy a software or any intellectual property you only own the license to use it, and you can't "sell" it whitout the approval of the original owner (sofware house),
This in pure theory, as I consider that bullshit and I usually resell everithing I need to resell. I perfectly know that if I buy an used game I won't support the SH, so if I really love their works, I will not only buy new, but preorder the game as soon as I can, possibly from the official store.
BTW, Wyrdwad, how do you consider Import US-EU? I know it is a problem for many local distributors here, If I'm not wrong Xseed itself is planning to distribute falcom titles in EU through PSN.
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Post by Skeletore has a boner on Aug 26, 2010 6:59:21 GMT -5
If the industry doesn't like used game sales:
Make a product worth buying at it's MSRP
End.of.Story.
There's dozens of resources at this point that show games cost too much, the industry needs new business models, it's getting like the Music/Movie industry, collapsing under it's own bloat.
Problem with the ethical argument people throw out(buying used=not supporting developers) is that buying new technically does the same thing...
When you buy a game off a store shelf new...it was already sold. The store bought it, from a distributor. This is identical to buying used at that point.
You can extend such faulty logic all the way back to the source.
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