I'm not sure what mistakes were made, though, aside from the one typo and the slight editing mistake with the music. Everything else seemed peachy, and our trailer even showed off MORE in-game footage than Falcom's!
The following is intended purely as constructive criticism. Be warned, however, that I dislike sugarcoating to protect someone's ego, so I'm not going to hold back with my comments.
If you ask me, the biggest problem with the trailer was the onscreen flavor text. The clips chosen were well-edited and matched well with the music (outside of the outro, of course). However, the flavor text, which should add to the overall feel, gave the distinct impression that the creators didn't have much originality to speak of and were too full of themselves to notice. The flavor text unintentionally served to emphasize all of the cliches in Ys Seven. Hidden mysteries, slumbering dragons, ancient evils -- yeah, yeah, yeah, we've all been here before. The frequent captions drew the eye away from the impressive visuals of the actual game, which should have been one of its primary selling points. Using a renowned chef's catchphrase as a way to sound cool effectively backfired and rightly exposed the writer of the flavor text as someone who just "doesn't get it". The presentation of the flavor text didn't help any and only furthered the impression that is was slapped together in a few minutes. It's rare that I say Times New Roman or MS Mincho would have been a drastic improvement, but in this case, it really would have (just look at Falcom's official ads). Ironically, the Impact captions robbed the rest of the trailer of any meaningful impact.
In short, the flavor text added to an otherwise well-put-together trailer turned it into something uninspired, cliche, and, dare I say, arrogant. The apparent jab at "Comfortable Familiars" (which may have been an accidental pun) just served to emphasize the many tropes present in the trailer. When "adding" something to a work ends up taking something away from it, you know the person making the addition hasn't done their job as well as they think they did. A textless version of the trailer ending with the same splash screen would have been much more effective at promoting the game.
Wyrdwad, if you'll forgive my bluntness, I think it's a great disservice to someone to essentially censor feedback that would help them improve, especially when, as you've already admitted, you aren't able to recognize their mistakes yourself.
That said, I think it would be a good idea to privately screen any upcoming trailers in these forum and collect constructive feedback before releasing them to the gaming press.
So you understand why I suggested this, can you tell what the underlying message of this Trojan ad is? It's pretty obvious, and it's very insulting to half of the world's population. This was pointed out during a focus group, but the execs present weren't really interested in listening to feedback. Unsurprisingly, the ad has since been banned on Fox and CBS. I don't think I need to bother explaining why.
Suffice to say, I'd rather let someone's pride take a hit early on and have them use the experience to improve upon their subsequent works than let them hang onto an embellished appraisal of their own abilities.
Wyrdwad explained this on the GameFAQs forum. He personally didn't see anything wrong with it, and neither did anyone else at XSEED. They could have asked Falcom to implement a new font; they just didn't see a reason to. Even though a handful of fans voiced how much the font didn't work in English.
Given the direction the trailers and cover art have taken, I'm skeptical that anyone at XSEED has any formal experience with graphic design given their lack of critical sensibility. I see plenty of things a design student would likely get hell for (the typesetting being the most prominent of these). Of course, trying to explain what's wrong with an image to someone who doesn't understand these concepts is like speaking Swahili to a American second-grader.
Yeah, you can tell I've done a lot of graphical work myself. (...Suspiciously eyes his current location...).
Post by Rebel40000 on Sept 14, 2010 22:19:00 GMT -5
Personally, while I didn't mind the font, I think it could have been a lot more interesting than what it ended up being. I believe TDO posted some examples of this on GameFAQs, which I found myself agreeing with.
I am studying in the graphical design field, so these things mean a lot to me, too. Not just as a fan either, but also for experience.
Post by knightofancient on Sept 14, 2010 23:49:58 GMT -5
I don't see a problem, with the logo. If you look at at the JP chronicles box art, you see that the Ys logo is just a cut and paste but without the vines behind it.
As for the lettering on the Ys Seven box art, look at the JP chronicles box art again. Its again a cut and paste of the lettering for "Ys I & II Chronicles" just changed to Ys Seven with a brighter yellow compared to the JP chronicles Box Art which is a darker yellow.
In conclusion, I dont have a problem with all 3 box arts for the U.S. I might have a little one for felghana, and that is that im a bit bummed out that it doesnt have the classic purple felghana logo with the square behind it.
Perhaps it's a little cluttered, as some have said, but I like it.
It tells you all you need to know:
-New Ys game. It's got the logo and everything! -Adol, Dogi, and a crap load of other characters are there, which subliminally tells you there are many playable characters. -It's a medieval fantasy game with an anime art style.
You can slam it for being artistically amateur, but I think the cover is eye-catching.
If a cover isn't eye-catching, only those who are looking for the game will find it, if not enough people buy the game because they don't know about it, the game loses money for the company, and if the company is losing money on a franchise, why continue supporting it?
First and foremost, video game developers/publishers are businesses. They're about making money. You can be as artistic as you want, but if the game doesn't sell, it's, in all practicality, a failure.
IMO, the U.S. cover for Ys Seven has a commercial appeal. It does its job, it catches your eye. I know because the only reason I got my copy was because I stumbled on it at a GameStop by complete accident. I wasn't looking for it. Hell, I didn't even know the game was available in the U.S.! As far as I'm concerned, the cover did its job. It caught my attention, and in a business like video games, where there are dozens of titles released every month, that is a good sign.
As I said before, if a cover doesn't stand out in any way to an uninformed consumer, they won't notice it, and the game will likely flop.
Personally, if all box arts were as pretty as Eternal Sonata's (both box arts, the PS3 and 360 versions), I'd be worse than dirt-poor; I'd be dirt-poor in MASSIVE debt!
// That said, most US box arts are pretty bad. Take a look at Heavenly Guardian (US), then look at Legend of Sayuki (EU), and Yukinkoto Daisenpuu: Saiyuki to Koyukino Hie Hie Daisoudou (JP). Clearly, Legend of Sayuki wins as not only the game's title, but the game's boxart is HIGHLY superior to the other two versions! It's also a ripoff of Capcom USA's usual PSP boxarts, as was Heavenly Guardian's boxart.
Last Edit: Sept 15, 2010 0:30:13 GMT -5 by Unsavory
Post by Incog Neato on Sept 15, 2010 1:53:57 GMT -5
Goddammit. Why did I have to look at this thread at work when I browse the Net without allowing any graphics to load? XD
I'm kind of surprised how outright blunt some of ye folks are about XSEED's design sense. I've wanted to say something on the same lines for a while now as what TDOMMX said but felt that it would come across as being a bit too critical.
What I find interesting is that many Japanese covers are very simple and classy and yet they sell fine. Whether this has to do with promotions, ads, commercials, etc., I dunno, but it seems that the mentality in the West is that they need something that's IN YOUR FACE in order for people to notice things. :((((((((((((((((((((
(Random tangent: It drives me absolutely INSANE when MMO sites focus more on the goddamn 3D models than the original illustrations. On the same train of thought, I never could understand why, on a lot of NA game covers, it's usually the in-game models and not the drawings. >:(!)
Since we're all being sort of mean, I honestly find the Chronicles NA one to be boring as heck. It's plain in design but not the classy sort of plain. It MAY catch my eye BECAUSE it looks like that but that's the equivalent of my inability to ignore the bloody Suikoden Tactics cover because it's so damn annoying to look at. (I always rage when I see it. ^^) In short, it's not the attractiveness that's getting my attention. :B
Also, I'm kind of with wyrd on the DJMP3 cover. I think the fact that the font size is small that sort of messes things up. The Black Square alternate cover with the DJMP BS logo and BLACK SQUARE written across the bottom looks much more slick and sexy. XD
There is another image for Portable 3 though with the same funky logo design but it's on a solid black background and the DJMax PORTABLE 3 title on the bottom of the image (with PORTABLE 3 in larger size) which looks better overall, IMO.
Post by Incog Neato on Sept 15, 2010 2:14:22 GMT -5
The "problem" with people's acceptance of the Ys SEVEN NA cover is that it does everything it needs to from a selling point of view -- they like and see the pretty artwork, the giant Ys logo, and the bright yellow Ys SEVEN text. And the fact that people are not given any alternate designs to look at kind of makes it hard for them to realize the whole "it's not all that great in terms of composition and design" bit that several of us are saying. XD
I honestly think the cover to the Complete Guide and even the SEVEN + Chronicles bundle cover work better than the NA one.
Anyway, I do believe this argument's going to get no where/is going no where since, on one hand, we have actual graphic designers looking at things from their point of view, and on the other, we have the actual consumers that most likely don't have the same knowledge to look at the designs the way the GD folks do. And in their eyes, XSEED's doing fine because they're fulfilling all the conditions that will cause them to like the designs. XD
For what it's worth, I don't have a formal graphic design background. I just share a lot of similar views as designers do. XD
Edit: GODAMMIT. So many posts in between my last one and this! Ooh! Classical music!! <3!!!
I actually think it's kind of the opposite! Non-graphic designers should be the litmus test for ALL graphic design, since the majority of the world does NOT consist of graphic designers... and thus, the "unwashed masses" are the ones who determine what "good" graphic design is at any given point in time, NOT the graphic designers.
The job of graphic designers is to listen to the unwashed masses, and do exactly what they want, for fun and profit. (:
.... And this is why there are so many mediocre designs out there in media. :P
I have some friends in the design business (one who owns her own business and another the does design part-time) that say that it's pretty infuriating when the client gets all picky picky over things that go against their own judgement of "good design". But hey, if they want something that looks shoddy, then that's what they'll get.
Well, I'm quite certain that a lot, if not most, of those attractive and pleasing ads, etc. out there were designed by a professional graphic design team that probably didn't have much input from those masses. :B
I swear, if all designers did nothing BUT do as them folks with the untrained eye asked for, we'd get a lot more designs like those HIDEOUS BULLETIN BOARDS AT WORKPLACES WITH MULTI-COLOUR CUT-OUT LETTERS OF INAPPROPRIATE FONT FACES AND RAINBOW BACKGROUNDS.
All because they're attention getting ... UGggggghhhhhh =__________=;
Actually, I'm gonna contact my friend (with her own business) to see what she says about the Ys covers. XD
I think you agitated me once or twice, but it was nothing serious. And I'm sure I agitated you just as much.
Alright then, that's good. Sometimes I get very... spirited during arguments so I had to make sure. I guess I also sound harsher than I sometimes intend to, like in the Ys Origin topic. Maybe it's because I don't use emotes or smilies as much?
Aw man, don't poste so fast. Now I need to go back and quote Wyrd...
I always feel conflicting feelings after these discussions:
1. I feel bad making a big deal out of stuff and sounding snotty 2. But I want to stick up for this and I feel strongly about these things and that's fair 3. Oh crap, this is a topic about Felghana Special Edition
Well, it's hard to be passionate about something and not sound snotty or a big deal. ^^;; Happens to everyone with just about anything! Don't feel bad~!
At least you know your stuff~! Some people can't even back up the things they freak out about.
And the discussion was kind of relevant to Felghana because the game still uses that highly readable font that anyone with any design sense doesn't really care for.
As for the Vanquish cover, it could be better. XD! Well, just about everything ever designed could be better in one way or another. Seriously, it's fine. ^^;