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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 4, 2011 1:41:48 GMT -5
Extremely minor spoiler below. So, I just got to fight Kishgal. Needless to say, I lost to him, and I have seen it's one of those fights you are supposed to lose in order to progress in the game.
My question is... Can he be defeated? (Even if that means absurd conditions such as maximum level and all SP-related upgrades "bought".) Thanks in advance.
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Post by psybuster on Oct 4, 2011 1:55:46 GMT -5
If I remember right I did do that on a lower difficulty a long time ago...just changes a couple lines of text I think.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 4, 2011 2:15:02 GMT -5
... Damn. XD Guess I have no choice... But to make him know defeat in this very point. After a few more levels, I think I might be able to pull it off... It'll depend on what other tricks he has up his sleeve once his HP reaches less than 50%... Each axe hit hits him for 9, Thunder Skill for 5. Not sure about Wind Skill yet... But eitherway, let's see what happens. xD Thanks for letting me know!
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Post by yotaka on Oct 4, 2011 2:52:57 GMT -5
Yeah, each character has one of those. They're all doable with a bit of effort.
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Post by rextor on Oct 4, 2011 6:58:16 GMT -5
Hm, what about Claw? I don't remember any hardly-beatable boss for him.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Oct 4, 2011 8:59:36 GMT -5
For Kishgal, I tried this on my replay (in Very Easy; didn't want to do this in Normal), but the fight ended halfway through, and he gave the same text as before.
Hugo, on the other hand, let me see his battle through to the end, which gave different text (that one was easy enough on Normal).
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Post by yotaka on Oct 4, 2011 11:42:17 GMT -5
Oops, my bad. Been a while since I played his early route so I thought his first fight against Hugo mirrored Hugo's first fight agaisnt him in that respect
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Post by schlagwerk on Oct 4, 2011 13:59:15 GMT -5
Yeah, all the fights where you are supposed to lose can be beaten. But nothing really changes in the end. What's more annoying is there is no quick reset and each one has a fair amount of intro and outro dialog....
Not worth the effort IMO
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 4, 2011 19:13:01 GMT -5
What's more annoying is there is no quick reset and each one has a fair amount of intro and outro dialog.... Not worth the effort IMO Yeah, that's the REAL problem for me. This surely requires a lot of patience and determination, at least on Nightmare... Without these, it's better to just "skip" the battle entirely.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Oct 4, 2011 19:45:21 GMT -5
Well, if you lose, you can always just do Alt + F4 afterwards to avoid sitting through the post-fight scenes (of course, you better be sure you saved at the statue beforehand ). You'll still need to wait a minute or two for the pre-fight scenes to finish, but you can just hold the "cancel" button (jump?) to speed the text up a little.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 4, 2011 19:50:23 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I have been doing. xD It does indeed take roughly 2 minutes to get the fight to start. But each time I lose, the more I want to beat him! (Though my playthrough is stopped until Friday right now, because I got some college-related business to do. ><""" I'm so addicted to YsO, it's hard to stop, but I did for now.)
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 5, 2011 21:23:26 GMT -5
Ar, leveling up does no good: I still die in 3 hits (sometimes 4 thanks to Boost Mode), and the damage I inflict on him was extremely minorly raised. @__@ Earth skill now hits him for 11 per hit, or 10. x__x
Damaging using whirlwind or any regular attack whatsoever safely is almost always unviable, too, although it's technically stronger (at least regular attacks; They hit for 25 or so now), but even if you risk it (and likely get punished for it afterwards), you'll only land a hit or two.
But... after quite many tries, I see it's possible to win even under these circumstances; If the fight ends once his HP reaches 50%, then that means I at least managed to go through over half of the battle, which took a while...
If it matters to anyone, I got myself to level 24, and I managed to get the Thunder Skill's second stone in advance by using a tiny exploitable to reach its chest with wind skill + boost mode (so that I could use it middair minimally 4 times at once). You are "supposed" to get it by litting a torch that would raise a bridge or something, instead. Oh, and my Axe is at level 3, too, which I'm assuming is the highest level possible for it up to that point.
Well... That's it. Now back to... either grinding or a few more rounds...
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 8, 2011 2:48:50 GMT -5
... So, after QUITE a while, I managed to take away 50% of his HP, but... the fight still kept going on? (Unless if I instead took away something close to it, like 49% of his HP.) After a while, he decided to spam ice dragons on me too, as if the battle being hard and long enough to the point the boss music looped once wasn't enough. I haven't learnt yet how to avoid being hit by it completely so far. *working on it* X___________X I'm at level 26 now, by the way. Haven't acquired any battle-related SP bonus yet, but I think I'll go for some of them for some extra help.
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Post by rextor on Oct 8, 2011 3:46:31 GMT -5
You just want to beat him and see what will happen, right? Why not just make a little cheat using any memory hacking program like infinite HP and win?
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 8, 2011 4:15:04 GMT -5
You just want to beat him and see what will happen, right? No. XD Not only that. It's more of a matter of personal, stubborn pride and honor. And for Yunica! *shot* XD Thanks for the suggestion, though. =)
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Oct 8, 2011 11:28:49 GMT -5
Regarding the ice dragon attack, I had that happen once, and he also seemed to be at or below 50% HP when it happened, but I've never seen the attack in that battle since then. Incidentally, that was the time I said "Screw it, I'll do this in my replay." XD
Hmm, but I remember that attack actually ended up not being too hard to avoid, though of course you're playing on Nightmare, and I was in Normal.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 8, 2011 17:56:41 GMT -5
Not sure if the difficulty somehow makes it harder to avoid, but when he uses it on me, his dragon is like a homed missile that can't miss. xD Though I think I might dodge it by running under it 2 or so seconds after it's summoned, so that he "dives" into the ground and can't return back to me on time, but I'm not sure. *has yet to check that* All the times he used it, the best I could do was to spam Yunica's thunder skill to nullify all possible damage. It seems to do the trick, but not usually. >_< Especially if he uses it with many ice stalagmites raised + shot the ice rain upwards right before using the dragon + corner me + chain me in a tornado right after the dragon. This already happened once... XD I found it hilarious somehow. He still kills me in 3 hits, but sometimes I do survive for 4 hits even without boost mode now. It depends with what I'm hit. This battle, at least on Nightmare, is one of those you mustn't get hit, because if you do, chances are whatever got you hit will get you hit again sooner or later, or worse yet, he might chain you with the tornado if whatever hit you got you stuck and he gets near you. That's pretty much certain death... usually. All that can be done in that case is to spam thunder skill to avoid further tornado hits. This attack chain in particular almost never happens to me, but rarely it does happen. This fight... is technically winnable even on my current conditions, but honestly, I don't have the needed fatigue to keep it up until the end. Yet. >_< It can get a bit out of control more often than not. Oh! By the way, oddly enough, despite our many fights, I have seen him use the dragon attack on me only after I got to level 26, and that too even when he lost only 25% of his HP... Suddenly he has been using it more often.
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Post by rextor on Oct 9, 2011 2:19:39 GMT -5
Could you make video of your fights? If you happen to beat him one day, it'll be interesting to see it
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 9, 2011 3:44:01 GMT -5
Sure. XD I'll try to.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 12, 2011 1:47:46 GMT -5
Tiny Update: Running under the Dragon won't allow Yunica to dodge it (but the opposite). But keeping maximum distance possible for as much possible time + Finally use Thunder Skill when it becomes unavoidable + Use the impulse from being pushed back to run back = does avoid all damage.
It's another matter if you are under the circumstances needed to pull that off, though (space etc.). Also, I'm not sure, but I feel the odds to avoid it are greater when you use the Thunder Skill midair specifially on the moment you do have to use it.
That aside, I was trying to see in these past few fights all possible openings for using the "defense debuff" attack of Yunica's. There ARE a few occasional opportunities, but you need to be so incredibly precise to assure you'll hit it without being hit back that... it might be best just to avoid it altogether and use the opportunity to hit him with Thunder Skill instead, which is safer and much more guaranteed.
And, I finally got her to level 27. xD That didn't change much, though. =x But now I'll start buying battle-related SP bonuses. (I'm going for lv1 Boost Mode, Skill Charge Speed and Skill Usage Cost improvements. I should have all these within a level or 2, which... means a lot of grinding, really. XD)
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