We're not trying to gang up on you! I think we've been pretty respectful overall, in fact. If you don't want to discuss it anymore, though, then we won't.
Sorry if I offended you!
Ryudo, I didn't spend 30 minute of my time last night trying to explain what I said to you because I felt you needed to be ganged up on. Believe it or not, I was actually trying to do you a favor because I respected you as a fellow collector and thought it to be silly that Digital Distribution is where you just automatically shut off all interest.
I think we are all trying to explain this to the best of our abilities so that it would persuade you to try out great games in this digital medium.
But if you want to get bent out of shape over what I said, so be it. Quite honestly, at this point I'm sorry I wasted my time trying to point out that you are being stubborn for the wrong reasons.
But whatever. If I've offended you, I've only done so because that is how you choose to view it. So be it.
Ryudo, this reminds me of a time when some months ago, I could feel my humanity slipping. As such, I became irritable, cocky, arrogant, and controlling. This was, in addition to some difficulties I was having in my own time. Eventually, everything exploded here, and I took a little month-long break, to clear my head, and to figure out what went wrong.
What I'm saying is that you feel victimized, as I did, but you're probably unaware of what you are doing, as I was. I'm not saying that you should take a month off or anything like that, but maybe you should consider taking a break or getting some rest? We're not your enemies here. It's just a difference of opinion, which isn't meant to be offensive, but I believe that in your current view point, it is misconstrued as such (which, is very similar to the situation that I'd mentioned).
Please just consider that we're trying to be helpful with our insights, and that we're not trying to shove any religious hash down your throat.
If this gets out of hand, then I'm afraid that I will have to act appropriately. My objective is to be more of a mediator and less of an "asshole moderator" or "the worst moderator ever" (as I've been told). I prefer to use my privileges as sparingly as possible -- so can I ask you a favor? Could you do yourself and the rest of us a favor? Could you relax? Please?
I know Xseed says they're not going 100% digitial, but can they do a similar approach as Zen United did? I recently bought one of their limited edition and it suppose to have only 200 of them. I mean you can sell a super limited edition thats affordable sold online only (No need to worry about fighting for store shelves), that will satifsy game collectors and maybe individuals that want a physical copy, and then keep the rest of the game in Digital Distrubtions.
the Vita uses flash memory. Very, very expensive flash memory.
I didn't realize it was that expensive. I thought flash memory was getting pretty cheap and only going to get cheaper. Although compared to optical media I guess its not. Flash memory has its benefits though. Less mechanical components to fail for one. I had to replace the laser in my launch PSP a few years ago. I replaced it just for Felghana, which I still have not really sat down and played.
Last Edit: Apr 12, 2012 7:31:16 GMT -5 by Xalphenos
Post by schlagwerk on Apr 12, 2012 13:03:07 GMT -5
A lot of the complaints against UMDs were their size for a portable system, having to hear them access/spin up, and the supposed battery drain caused by the moving parts in the UMD drive (optical laser, spinner motor, etc) It's hardly an optimal storage format for a portable game system.
And I can't tell 100% but maybe Wyrd is joking that the flash is very very expensive because it's yet another Sony proprietary format and they jack up the price on it, just like their UMDs, Memory Stick Duos, and the memory that the Vita takes
"Ambition is the willingness to kill the things you love and eat them to stay alive."
Post by Red Hairdo on Apr 12, 2012 21:40:35 GMT -5
I'm fine with either path XSEED takes.
From a consumer's standpoint, I agree owning things tangibly feels "warmer", but there are lots of pluses in going digital, as well, such as economizing physical space where you live, and sparing some trees.
Post by ParanoiaDragon on Apr 14, 2012 0:15:53 GMT -5
Well, in regards to taking up space, I think one thing that woudl've helped in general, is if certain companies over the years would've gone with smaller packaging! I'm specifically eyeballing Sega & 3DO, as well as Sony for their early PS1 games(atleast in NA).
There are some for the 3DO that are standard cd size cases, but then other companies would make it so the big box it comes in lacks a cd case. The PC-FX did some random sizes as well. Alot of portable games(GB, GBA, NGP, etc) could've been in smaller packaging. Heck, Turbo chips could've been in smaller packaging, though, then they wouldn't fit together with the cd games...
There are some for the 3DO that are standard CD size cases, but then other companies would make it so the big box it comes in lacks a CD case. The PC-FX did some random sizes as well. Alot of portable games(GB, GBA, NGP, etc) could've been in smaller packaging. Heck, Turbo chips could've been in smaller packaging, though, then they wouldn't fit together with the CD games...
I know what you mean. Actually, the GBA boxes in Japan were about the right size, but America's were about twice as tall. That kind of thing seems like it was kind of common in the past; Small box in Japan, big box in America. Maybe the most insane were how big PC game boxes were for the longest time, up until around the time Steam started to really take off. I remember my copy of Alpha Centauri (which included the expansion) just went ahead and put the full strategy guide in the box considering its size...
Post by RyuKisargi on Jun 12, 2012 10:28:29 GMT -5
Don't mean to "Revive an old topic", but digital-download sales means that a company can release a lot more titles for less cost. I'd still support XSEED, no matter what.
I can understand holding the disk, the game, but I've seen it happen so many times where the disk, the game, gets smashed, cracked, scratched, etc. I prefer digital-download as long as the price is viable.
Dogi fanboy. Breaking walls since this site was born!
I'm an emulation guy, but I like to buy stuff too every now and then.
Another thing I like about digital distribution is that if something is corrupt you can re download it. Twice I have received bad discs. Once with disc 4 of Final Fantasy 8 on psx and one random DBZ dvd. In the case of the dvd I just took it back to the store and exchanged it. But with FF8 I didn't even start playing it until it was too late to exchange. And It was in the ending fmv that the game crashed. Time and Time again. The disc was visually flawless, as it still is. Thankfully I had a friend who lost some two of his discs so he gave me his, not nearly as flawless, disc four.
Granted the percentage of failed discs is insignificant next to number of total optical media I have. It was still annoying. And that is something I don't have to worry about with Steam.
The problems with Digital besides the already stated collectibility are,
1. You can't resell if it if you desperately need money for something
2. If you buy a lot of games and you have a stingy ISP (like most in the US are these days) you will start running up your bandwidth cap for the month pretty quick (Especially if you have a small cap)
3. You are re-inforcing the MegaPublisher's bullcrap about how you don't own a copy or anything of the game. You are licensing the game and you are at the strict mercy of the platform holder(PSN,XBL,Steam,ETC) and the Publishers, even if it's unlikely anything will happen(though games on PSN have been removed before for periods of time due to exploits, but that's kind of a double edged sword because of said exploit a lot of people would buy the game. And that'd be good for the developer/publisher). This also ties back in to #1. You can't resell second hand something that doesn't physically exist. Which hurts a lot of Mom and pop video game stores that rely on Second hand sales to survive.
4. What if their service goes down for good and you dont' have your entire library downloaded to your Computer for realistic reasons(dont' have the space on your HDD. Bandwidth caps, etc)? What if the service goes down and they allow you to download all of your library so you don't lose them and (like on steam remove the DRM) you don't have enough space on your HDD? You have to go out and buy another HDD to backup all your installers and game data. (But then you also have to have the space in your PC for the drive if it's internal) And then what if that drive dies and you lose everything? Would you have to have backups of your backups? Would you have to have to pay a lot of money for someone to attempt to try and retrieve the data off the platters?
I know there are pros-cons for both Physical and Digital. These are just some more cons for Digital for the "Consumer" not the "Developer/publisher/localizer"
I understand XseeD's position entirely, and I'd RATHER have them stay alive releasing Digital than nothing at all.
When I have the money soon I plan on buying both Ys Origin and Ys III on Steam.
Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 17, 2012 21:32:51 GMT -5
Depends on the KIND of digital product, though...
For example, PSN games. Even if PSN goes down, your game is still there. (Unlike, say, when an MMO server shuts down, in which case you lose everything.)
#1 has workarounds as well: if one's that desperate, one could i. e., in the case of a PSN game on a PSP, just sell the PSP with the PSN game(s) altogether, who knows. There are some games which you download with a "key", and in case you want to sell the game to another person, you "return" the company responsible for the game the "key", and then you transfer the "key" to the PC of the person buying the game from you (i. e. Project EGG games).
Also, the option of backing things up isn't even available for some platforms if something goes wrong with something you physically own. For example, coffee fell on your SNES and in it was a game cartridge. Both can't be retrieved and go to waste. You can always buy extra stuff to i. e. backup the cartridge itself and whatnot, but that's even harder than backing up certain kinds of digital stuff...
With digital things, say, you buy a game for your PC via download, then your PC crashes and you have no backup. Well, whoever you bought it from might be able to provide you the download again!
I think the cons are lesser when going digital for both consumers and companies, DEPENDING on the WAY they go digital, at least.
So, when companies are hypocritical enough to go with things like DRM, then no doubt, that's one shitty way of going digital. And I encourage any form of boycotting towards whichever company that supports that and anything else comparable
But yeah, best alternative? To go both physical and digital.
Absolutely. Still, you CAN backup your SNES games digitally via downloading a ROM because it's not illegal if you own a copy of the game(Even if corporations say it is . They do not lose anything from you having a backup of something you already bought and is no longer sold by them. Same with games you backup yourself with a Gamedoctor or what not. Or a PSX game CD etc). You could just use something like a Powerpak or a Super Everdrive to play it again if the cart is damaged(even though both are expensive. So it's like a moot point almost). (Unless the System is damaged too. Then you'd need to buy another system.)
I mean if you are entitled to back up a game you bought digitally , why not a game you bought physically?
But I think "Legal backups" is another discussion entirely.
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2012 22:24:06 GMT -5 by bonkers
Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 17, 2012 22:57:48 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a different subject, and one that has been brought up around these parts over the course of time, but it's kind of related to this.
Sadly, though, while from an ethical standpoint backing one's own merchandise up is correct, legally it still isn't allowed. I know, it makes no sense, and it's greed and ignorance at its finest, but it truly isn't legal... But yeah, no company is harmed in any way (they benefict from it, in fact!) when people back their own stuff up or grab to play something totally discontinued (i.e. Ys II Special for DOS, Dreamcast games).
It's funny, because thanks to this, old things resurrect from their graves, so to speak, thus creating a market hole for companies to exploit: As board founder Seldane once said many ages back: "Can't stop emulation, sell emulation!". Which definitely turned out beyond profitable. Going retro even became a trend somewhat! Further encouraged by things like Capcom doing Mega Man 9 and 10 8-bit style. Etc..