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Post by Justin on Dec 30, 2008 17:24:54 GMT -5
SWEEEEEEET!!!! I hope we get it in Canada.
I had to fight for my Castlevania OoE bonus disk.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Dec 30, 2008 20:11:45 GMT -5
At least the CD artwork is different.
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Post by ParanoiaDragon on Dec 31, 2008 1:30:24 GMT -5
Hmm, they're calling the Palace of Solomon/Salmon, the Palace of Sarmon??? Might as well try to make it sound cool, & call it Palace of Saruman if they're going to be wierd about their translation(I only say that, cuz, most of what I recall in the Turbo game, was great, with exceptions to stuff like Colin & Lair).
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Post by psybuster on Dec 31, 2008 4:04:12 GMT -5
Not particularly related to the DS versions coming out but are Solomon Shrine, Temple, and Palace for all intents and purposes the same thing translated a bunch of different ways across the multitudes of releases?
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Post by bishopcruz on Dec 31, 2008 20:16:32 GMT -5
Sarmon sounds awful in English though. There are several correct translations of these different areas, names, and titles, but I've generally found that when trying to romanize, especially foreign words, you have to figure out what sounds the most natural.
In the case of a series that has already had games released in the US, I tend to say, stick to what has come before unless there is a very compelling reason NOT to.
Dogi being renamed to Colin is a significant departure it was clearly changed in order to make the game more American, not to mention he has been Dogi in nearly every release since then, so it makes sense ot change it from the TG-16 version. Colin is also NOT an approriate romaniation of Dogi.
Darm is a different case, the original Japanese is: DA-A-MU, and Dahm is the official romanization, the problem with Dahm is that it doesn't quite sound right in English, and we have very few words that are spelled that way either (the 'ahm' is incredibly rare), by chaging it to Darm, which is also an acceptable romanization and its sounds occur naturally in English, the 'arm' is common, and it hearkens much more to french than Dahm would.
Sarmon is especially odd because the official romanization, Salmon, and the one used in most translations Solomon, are better. Salmon of course suffers from being named the same as a fish, so I tend to think that Solomon works better. It also hearkens to Jewish mythology, which many Eldeen ruins and locations tend to do (Zemeth, Caanan Islands for example), and keeps to the idea that the world of the Ys is a fantasy Eurasia.
I suppose some of these just come down to personal preference. Luta should be Luther in my opinion, mainly because that is an actual name, and it is clearly what was intended.
It reminds me of an anime translation that drove me insane. The series in question was Onegai Twins. The main characters of the show did not have Japanese names, their names were Mike, Karen, and Mina. However in both fansubs, and in an official release, the translators decided to go with the more direct romanizations of Maiku, Karen (impossible to fuck up.), and Meena.
They missed the point that Japanese has a limited syllabary, and in order to bring certain foreign words and names into the language, changes must be made. The problem is, there are tons of tranlators and fans who want a romanization that is close to the Japanese, accuracy to the original words be damned.
This type of translation is an art, not a science, but all too often strict adherence to the original syllables takes precedence over natural sounding English. I'm scared that this is where the series is headed.
I hope I'm wrong.
Edit:
Well, saw some screenshots, and I'm not too hopeful, Lair is now Reah (which doesn't sound right, or read right, it would have to be Reya for the R version or Leia for a different 'L' version.)
Also, instead of a town Militia it's a 'Defense Brigade', again, technically accurate, but just unnatural sounding.
One of the things that impressed the hell out of me with the original patches was just how natural everything sounded. It rarely overcomplicated things, and it made sense.
Not so much anymore it seems. It's just going to be a shame if a fan translation of the same material ends up being highly superior.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 31, 2008 20:38:41 GMT -5
Good post. "Luther"... yeah, you have a point... remembered me of the story about Ys I's doctor Klaus/ Krauze. ("Klaus" being a real name and all.) But I personally don't care much about the localization of these names. Any way is fine, as long they don't come up with names out of nowhere. (Such as Ys I MS-DOS' and AppleIIGS' name for Goban, which was "Riobardo". Cool name though. xD)
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Post by bishopcruz on Dec 31, 2008 20:51:34 GMT -5
I'll likely get the games, but it just kinda depresses me, especially after Konami did such an amazing job with the Ys VI translation. That and I am spoiled by the Deuce and Nightwolve translations.
But hell, even the TG-CD Ys 1 and 2 translation is amazing for its time, outside of one or 2 issues (Colin being the main one) it knocked it out of the park. Compare it to the Ys III translations (any of them) to see what I mean.
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Post by bishopcruz on Dec 31, 2008 21:21:18 GMT -5
But mightn't it be better to email them and let them know what we as the hardcore fans prefer? I mean so far what I have seen isn't ALL bad, at least we have Esteria and not Esterior for example. I dunno, the idea of tons of varying official localizations bothers the snot out of me.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Dec 31, 2008 21:26:41 GMT -5
I'd be just as happy if they did Ahnuld Dogi -- LISTEN TO ME NOW AND FEAR ME PRETTY SOON! I AM NO KINDERGARTEN COP!
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Dec 31, 2008 21:43:23 GMT -5
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 31, 2008 21:59:39 GMT -5
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 31, 2008 22:34:38 GMT -5
I'm not glad they ceased from existence before bringing PS2's "Bouken Jidai Katsugeki Goemon". But that was Sony's fault. I hold no grudge against Working Designs, but their translations were really weird. Sometimes funny. XD
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Post by ParanoiaDragon on Dec 31, 2008 23:09:23 GMT -5
But mightn't it be better to email them and let them know what we as the hardcore fans prefer? I mean so far what I have seen isn't ALL bad, at least we have Esteria and not Esterior for example. I dunno, the idea of tons of varying official localizations bothers the snot out of me. I've tried to make several vocalizations(if that's even a word) about the names of places, people, etc. on their boards, haven't seen any real resonse from Atlus, nor any from the fans there. BTW, wasn't the SNES Ys 3 pretty dead on? I know the Turbo one wasn't, though, atleast they got Dogi right that time, though, it's funny that the Genesis & Turbo versions, IIRC, are very similar in their wacky translationess!
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 31, 2008 23:12:47 GMT -5
I heard once Deuce say long, long ago that the best official Ys III translation done was the SNES' version.
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Post by Kimimi on Dec 31, 2008 23:58:09 GMT -5
I'm not glad they ceased from existence before bringing PS2's "Bouken Jidai Katsugeki Goemon". But that was Sony's fault.I hold no grudge against Working Designs, but their translations were really weird. Sometimes funny. XD From what I've read over the years WD had a habit of starting localization projects before they'd discussed anything with anyone, and then bitching about it after. So in many of these instances they'd go "Hey, let's translate this game!" then, after months of work and boasting about their next awesome project to fans Sony (or Sega, or whoever) would go "We never told you we'd publish this in the first place, and you didn't even ask" then Vic would wail and moan on the forums about how they were being repressed and everyone had a vendetta against them. Many (if not all) companies start projects that never get published, but they don't pretend that the publisher is throwing lightning bolts down from their ivory tower when it happens. My overall impression of the business side of WD is that they endlessly whinged on about problems that every other company in the business had; the only difference is that everyone else didn't act like a child when setbacks occured.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jan 1, 2009 1:33:01 GMT -5
Hm, I never really accompanied anything Working Designs -related. All I know is that story, since I am quite a fan of the Goemon franchise, and that title in particular is awesome and probably the first PS2 game ever released (it came in 2000). Also I know many Goemon titles weren't brought to western shores due to the games "too japanese". In a way or another, Sony is to blame for that particular title. =/ My guess is that they didn't want a game that was "too japanese" to be one of the "opening" games for the PS2. That kind of thing is rather common. Whenever a console or whatever is released, companies always try to release big titles to "open" the system.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jan 1, 2009 3:37:54 GMT -5
Dark Fact's name was Maleficus in Ys I MS-DOS. XD
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Post by bishopcruz on Jan 1, 2009 7:45:58 GMT -5
"Luther" is actually incorrect - the katakana was RUTA, whereas the official katakana for Luther is RUUSAA. "Luta" is probably the best Romanization. I don't completely disagree, but Luta is close enough to Luther to be fine IMO, I don't believe that the romanization for McGuire is MAKUGAIA, in fact in every instance I have checked it is MAKUGUIA instead. Falcom is always a bit weird with their names. Where did you find this? I have looked through about 5 different name dictionaries, and while I have found Reya, Rea, and Rhea, I have yet to find Reah, especially with the intended pronunciation. Rhea, for example is pronounced REE-YA in English. I still say a happy medium is Leia, mainly because Leah is pronounced LEE-AH more often than not. I still don't really like Reah. As I have said, many of these are tricky, but overall, I think Solomon gives the best overall sound and impression in English, Salmon doesn't have the same tone, Sarmon sounds completely off, and Sarumon is a villain from LoTR. Knowing that Falcom LOVES weird romanizations, I again, just don't think Solomon is as off as you do. All the translations of Ys III are shit, the SNES one is the most accurate, but the grammar, spelling and dialogue are absolutely awful. The TG-16 and Genesis versions tend to read better, but are Americanized for no good reason. Given the option, I still go with the TG one, mainly due to Nostalgia. The SNES translation is just way too Engrishy for me.
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Post by Justin on Jan 1, 2009 14:39:46 GMT -5
I'm not glad they ceased from existence before bringing PS2's "Bouken Jidai Katsugeki Goemon". But that was Sony's fault.I hold no grudge against Working Designs, but their translations were really weird. Sometimes funny. XD From what I've read over the years WD had a habit of starting localization projects before they'd discussed anything with anyone, and then bitching about it after. So in many of these instances they'd go "Hey, let's translate this game!" then, after months of work and boasting about their next awesome project to fans Sony (or Sega, or whoever) would go "We never told you we'd publish this in the first place, and you didn't even ask" then Vic would wail and moan on the forums about how they were being repressed and everyone had a vendetta against them. Many (if not all) companies start projects that never get published, but they don't pretend that the publisher is throwing lightning bolts down from their ivory tower when it happens. My overall impression of the business side of WD is that they endlessly whinged on about problems that every other company in the business had; the only difference is that everyone else didn't act like a child when setbacks occured. Yeah but they got screwed over on a few other projects. Growlanser Generations was supposed to be released as 2 different SKU's, and Sony wasn't comfortable with the projected sales figures. WD lost a ton of money when they had to combine the 2 into a boxset. Also, Goemon was apparently close to being done. WD wouldn't have gone over the 50% mark if they didn't have official green lighting. I agree, WD was horribly mishandled by major ego issues, but they were stomped out. Would they be here today if it were with different companies? I don't think so. There methods were very influential, but ultimately very dated. As far as I am concerned, they died with 90's gaming, which is where they always belonged. Is it right to put them down for there "style"? No its not. Yes, they may have obligitory pop references, and sometimes, the script comes off a little "immature", but they opened my eyes to many games that would have never made it here. In a time when Japanese games were impossible to play (Unless you had deep pockets), and piracy was not on the level it is today, WD made some very unique games available. They single-handedly made the Sega CD worth owning, and pumped out some of the best games to grace the Sega Saturn. Would the western world be as open minded to eastern gaming if they didn't exist? No I honestly don't think we would be. There translations were very mindful of western ignorance, and in some ways it helped ease us into eastern thinking. Some of the game play changes were stupid, such as the Popful Mail hit heal time, and Silhouette mirage's difficulty, but others worked for the better. No one thinks about the altered experience/difficulty levels from Lunar, Lunar 2, Albert Odyssey. The extra's in Magic Knight Rayearth, and the faster load times. Oh how about how you can choose to turn off the battle voices in Growlanser. WD was not perfect by all means, but it pisses me off when people write them off so quick. Its becoming a cliche to hate on WD, which is lame. I could sit here an name off many more companies that shit the bucket worse than they did, and I think in all honesty, more respect should be paid to WD as a company. Vic Ireland was an egotistical moron, but he was also a pioneer, and a great risk taker, something which is needed in today's "blockbuster" gaming world. I am not trying to be "MR WD FANBOY", but it makes me so mad when WD gets put down so harshly, and companies like Bandai, Sony, or even Atlus have done worse jobs in the past.
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Post by Justin on Jan 1, 2009 14:47:55 GMT -5
Lea, leah, hmmm sounds much more natural to me. I never thought of it that way before.
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