jtb
Rheboll
Posts: 14
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Post by jtb on Sept 6, 2009 11:05:14 GMT -5
Were you planning on using the herbs during the Dalles battle? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think you can use items during boss battles with the exception of the celceta flower, which is too far out of the way (bottom of the mines).
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Sept 6, 2009 12:36:32 GMT -5
For Ys I Complete, you can't use items during bosses, period. For Ys II Complete, however, you can use items during bosses. On Easy mode (not sure about Normal or Hard), you can access the inventory and equipment subscreens during bosses, meaning that you can use more than one type of consumable item. As for Nightmare, it seems like you can't access those two screens during bosses, so you're limited to whatever item you enter the fight with.
Also, there actually is another Celceta Flower in the eastern portion of the Subterranean Canal near Sada, but it's a ~5 second detour, plus another ~5 seconds for the item jingle (being a treasure chest item). I'd like to get that, but the item jingle alone makes it slower than the 3 Herbs (no item jingle). Oh well, the Herbs should be enough to survive Dalles without armor, but it certainly won't be easy.
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undamned
Lyus
Hyper Solid Shooting!
Posts: 120
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Post by undamned on Sept 9, 2009 15:16:02 GMT -5
Unfortunately I've not yet finished the rest of the game yet, so I've no good ideas for ya, but what you've got so far looks great! -ud
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Sept 9, 2009 20:29:08 GMT -5
No worries! Thanks to the "forced" grinding, the route took quite a bit of time to come up with, so hopefully that means it's pretty solid. Can't hurt to have others review it, though.
Oh, I was going to ask if you'd finish Ys II yet, but it looks like you already answered that. =p As I said before, you're pretty close to the end of the game, so you should definitely finish it sometime.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 12, 2009 14:46:06 GMT -5
Hrmm~ ! First of all... awesome bug. xD I'm SO testing this one. I'll try to reproduce it on PC first, then later test on all the "brother versions". That item glitch is also quite interesting! Cutting off the whole "You got this item!" message process. And also making the delay between using the Teleport Magic and finally getting it to work being keenly used. The first level up method is impressive as well. I really don't there could be a better way to level up at that point, also taking into consideration load times are not present in Ys I-II COMPLETE. Second level up method is simple, yet the best, even if it's not as fast as one would want. That's what I think anyway, as I earlier stated in this thread. As for the route... Out of the top of my head, I can't recall any other chest in which you could use that item glitch of yours. Also, assuming that you already thought if that was possible with every chest you encountered or not, there probably isn't anything else I may suggest about that. You are getting the Falcon Idol to fight Zava, is that it? Or to make the final grinding easier? Or both? If it's not required to fight against Zava, perhaps you could skip it? Just throwing in an idea. As for getting the Battle Sword... I was going to suggest to perhaps skip it but... after seeing all of your route, I guess it's quite necessary. (I was about to suggest to skip it and do the whole grinding with the Cleria Sword.) As for the Dalles fight, as you said, theorically, you should be able to kill him without getting hit. Well, I'm not actually sure, but since this is a speedrun, I think that if I was in your place, I'd strive for perfection, and therefore avoid the herbs. But also to make sure I wouldn't regret it later, I wouldn't accept such a route until I tested it myself to see if I'm actually able to kill Dalles without being hit.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Sept 12, 2009 15:18:02 GMT -5
That item glitch is also quite interesting! Cutting off the whole "You got this item!" message process. And also making the delay between using the Teleport Magic and finally getting it to work being keenly used. The idea is to have the selection box for the Warp menu appear at the very moment the text box for the item appears. Falcom apparently tried to counter this, as trying to bring up the Warp menu any later than what the video shows results in the Warp menu being cancelled, and the normal "You got this item!" message. Any sooner, and well, it's just a normal Warp menu. =p It's weird, though, as the trick is much easier to pull off in Ys I (can be used to shave at least ~15 seconds off the current time). I'm going to test these more when I can get the Japanese version working properly (can't load any games, plus the Japanese location text seems to be the same no matter where I save; can't seem to figure it out). I'm not quite sure, but I think the Falcon Idol will be worth it, mostly for Zava. It also does seem to do a tad more damage than a normal charged fireball (that's excluding the little fireballs, mind you). It's only a ~5-6 second detour, (mostly due to that item jingle =p), so I think it may be worth it. The Battle Sword should help speed up the grinding, plus I'd probably have to gain an extra level or two for Zava without it. Will definitely double-check both of these, though. Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. Ugh, that fight's gonna suck either way. ;(
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Sept 27, 2009 13:39:27 GMT -5
Alright, finally finished with my test run. It took a while because I had to re-test some annoying things. I ended up making a couple of changes, although nothing major.
Buying the Short Sword as opposed to getting it from Legth is much closer than I originally thought. Initially, buying it is ~17 seconds faster, but I discovered that I wouldn't have enough gold to buy the Talwar if I defeated Velagunder at level 11. Long story short, buying it and leveling to 12 before Velagunder should be the fastest method, but only by about 3 seconds, and even then I'm not 100% sure. At the very least, Velagunder will be easier to deal with at level 12, plus I'll have 75-100 extra EXP going into the Ice Ridge of Noltia, which may help to save a couple more seconds, so that's the route I'm going to take.
The hidden 1,000 G chest in Tyalmath's room will be obtained, instead of the 2,000 G chest in the Moat of Burnedbless. Slightly faster, and the extra gold from the other chest shouldn't be needed.
I'm also going to take a brief detour to the Roos' Nest for a Roda Fruit after purchasing the Hyper Cutter. One reason is to pick up a Roda Fruit to replenish my MP before fighting Druegar. And two, it's actually about a second or so faster to get to Gorto via warping (can't warp to a location you're already in, barring a minor bug), although granted, that test was done without obtaining the Roda Fruit (will be using the item/warp glitch). Still, I figure the extra warping should be worth it to have full MP before Druegar.
I'm not going to be obtaining 3 Herbs throughout the course of the game after all. I haven't managed to do so yet, but Dalles should be possible without them. There was one attempt where I used them, when I probably didn't need to until the very end. Either way, it's going to be a real pain with or without them; getting in the opening hits and still being in good health afterwards is usually not something that occurs.
I'm still not sure whether or not to get the "Shield" magic for Darm, though. Either way, I won't be needing to make that decision for a while.
And Red Hairdo, it looks like the Battle Sword/Falcon Idol will still be obtained. The next best sword, the Hyper Cutter, is only really good for killing the Charlonts; the Balkilea take minimal damage from it at first (and even after a few levels, they still take several hits). As for the Falcon Idol, that seems to make little to no difference while leveling, but during Zava, it seems to be a fair deal faster (don't remember the exact figures offhand), probably due to the multi-hit charged shots.
Well, I'm not sure when I'm going to get recording, but I'll probably start sometime this week (maybe tomorrow). Even so, this will probably take a while longer than the Ys I run (if you couldn't tell from my infrequent Ys II updates =p).
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 27, 2009 14:56:15 GMT -5
Well, so all is set. xD Ho ho, good luck!
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undamned
Lyus
Hyper Solid Shooting!
Posts: 120
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Post by undamned on Sept 30, 2009 17:33:15 GMT -5
Yes, kill Dalles quick for me! -ud
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Oct 8, 2009 20:44:34 GMT -5
It will probably be a while before I get a satisfactory segment 1 attempt, as I'm working on the run much less often than the Ys I run, plus certain parts within the run are giving me a bit of trouble (blasted shop menus >_<). So, I've decided to upload a beta version of it (link removed, see first post), which stops just before Velagunder. Obviously, this still needs a bit of work, but comments/criticism would be appreciated, especially regarding the leveling methods (however, I should note that the current methods end up pretty much exactly where I need to be for EXP/gold). Yes, kill Dalles quick for me! -ud The way the route's set up, I'll be lucky to kill him at all. =p
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Oct 18, 2009 21:01:25 GMT -5
A 14 second faster segment 1 attempt (link removed, see first post)... but I don't think I'll keep it, as there's still a couple of mistakes I'd like to omit. They probably only amount to a few seconds, but some of them look kind of bad, so I'll keep trying. The major problem, though, is getting that Mattock glitch to work when freeing Dr. Ralle (saves a few seconds), plus the added pressure of having everything else go smoothly.
Anyway, I wanted to ask, how is the video quality for everyone? Obviously, the picture quality isn't the greatest due to compressing the original files, but I'm mostly wondering if the video looks choppy at all, and also if the audio matches correctly with the video (appended the movie files, as the recording was originally split, and I hear appending the files can sometimes cause audio desync). Everything seems OK to me (minus a little choppiness in a couple spots, but it's hardly noticeable), but I want to be sure, especially since Fraps likes to screw with the framerate seemingly at random, and this computer doesn't always play videos correctly.
In any case, I'll keep trying to get a better segment 1 attempt, but that may or may not take a while, as we're going to try and upgrade this computer sometime soon.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 19, 2009 20:38:34 GMT -5
I'm afraid I can't help you with the technical issues. =/
Though I can say I didn't notice anything odd about your videos so far.
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Oct 19, 2009 22:06:37 GMT -5
That's good that the videos seem to be running OK. Very frequently, the framerate briefly drops sometime during the opening cutscenes (usually during the brief view of Esteria), and also at some point later on, if I record for long enough. Like I said, the slowdown is generally not very noticeable, but it is there (although a bit hard to detect), and the "random" slowdown does get quite annoying.
I think it has something to do with low RAM (currently less than 1 GB...), so I'm going to have the computer looked at tomorrow, and hopefully get some parts ordered. So far, the lag has yet to screw up another good segment (happened once during the Ys I run), and I certainly don't want another incident like that occurring. But since you say the video looks OK, I think I'll keep trying to get a good attempt recorded while waiting for the parts to arrive.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 20, 2009 7:01:18 GMT -5
If all else fails, you will at least gain experience. xD
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 6, 2009 17:51:35 GMT -5
Another segment 1 attempt (link removed, see first post), but there are still a couple of stupid mistakes (as always, it seems). I'm trying to decide whether or not to keep this attempt. At the very least, I intend to try and get something better recorded these next couple of days, but it's getting to the point where I'll need an almost perfect attempt to beat what I already have. The main problems, though, are getting through the shop menus quickly, and quickly getting properly aligned to damage both of the rock golems simultaneously that guard the Staff of Divinity (can very easily lose a few seconds there).
So, what do you guys think? Keep the attempt and move on if nothing better comes in a couple of days, or just keep trying until a better attempt comes along (currently, it could probably be about 2-3 seconds faster)?
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 13, 2009 16:44:58 GMT -5
Segment 1Probably what I'm going to stick with, although I might still try for a day or two more before moving on. As it is, it seems pretty unlikely that anything better will come along anytime soon, and I'm getting sick of this segment (can still be improved by a theoretical 3-4 seconds, I'd imagine). Anyway, let me know what you think. (Also, I should mention that I'm going to upload attempts to Youtube that I feel pretty certain I'm going to keep; in the meantime, I'll just keep using Filefront for "beta" attempts. But given the lack of feedback, I don't know if I'll bother to post those links in public anymore.)
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 13, 2009 20:02:48 GMT -5
4:50 --> Wow, you used that "glitch" of moving screens before a screen even loaded. xD Awesome to see it in action. XD Also, until that point, all looks really good. Loved how you touched the 1st Sage's door to open it and meanwhile you pushed the scorpion enemy at its direction. xDDD That was quite keen. 5:15 + - --> Looks like you missed about 2 seconds there or so by not attacking both stone monsters at once all the time. Just something minor you probably already noticed anyway. 6:50 --> that one glitch you told me in action. xD Wow, I wouldn't even have noticed the glitch if you didn't tell me it. Awesome. Until that point, I think you missed a half second or so when fighting an enemy or another, but they were extremely minor delays. 8:50 --> You failed to use that aforementioned loading glitch once, and then later again, which must have taken out not more than a second of your time. Naturally, you likely saw that too, but I'm saying it anyway. Anyway, you made a fantastic use of it. xD Oh my God. XD You really made amazing discoveries. Aaaaand, that's it. xD Sorry I didn't comment on the first video you had uploaded in the previous post, I got into a lot of other things and totally forgot it until today. >< Anyway, it's looking good. Keep it up!
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 13, 2009 20:53:47 GMT -5
Don't worry, I wasn't referring to you, Red. Besides, I saw a couple of posts where you said you have a lot of studying to do. I'm more referring to the amount of views this and the SDA topic gets, but for some reason, most people are hesitant to actually say anything (not referring to you, obviously). If people aren't interested, fine, but then why all the topic views?
Anyway, those errors you mentioned are pretty much exactly what I noticed, which amounts to about 3-4 seconds total. Hitting both rock golems simultaneously is one problem that will pretty much always be there, as the game is very picky about the positioning, but that could've easily gone a bit worse than it did (can easily lose about 5 seconds there).
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korzic
Chryolos
Hmm, something feels off...
Posts: 697
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Post by korzic on Dec 13, 2009 22:35:08 GMT -5
Up until the point I decided to do these runs, neither have I. Still, I figured I'd get more of a response than what I have (even if it is to say, "Sorry, can't help you"). It's kind of frustrating to receive no response at all, even though some other members are apparently keeping up with the topic (FYI, the view count was at 1200-something earlier today, not whatever ridiculous amount it's at right now).
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cjay
Rheboll
Posts: 23
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Post by cjay on Dec 14, 2009 14:28:12 GMT -5
hey, you have my respect, i love speedruns.. also sorry i really cant help you with it, i beat only Ys I, but as i said, full respect to you.
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