What do you do for a living?

[Majuunun]

FullSail eh? I have a co-worker who graduated from there and another graduate who tried to get a job at my company. I could pick my co-worker's brain for you if you'd like...

[Inochi 命]

I used to go to the International Academy of Design & Technology Toronto...

[Del Stimpson]

majuunun said:

I used to be a tester like Wyrdwad. I had 3 testing gigs before I finally fought and clawed my way to becoming a game designer.

Being a tester was pretty darn soul-destroying compared to my design job. I'm not the "idea woman" who sit around and thinks of games all day. I do plenty of "druge" work like altering massive data sheets to tune difficulty, etc, but it's far more rewarding than any other job I've had.

Not that I'vd had many jobs...

Wow a game designer, That likely sounds better then it actually is. Still what is it like, I know little of the actual work that goes into a game so I find the subject of such jobs interesting.

[Majuunun]

delstimpson said:

Wow a game designer, That likely sounds better then it actually is. Still what is it like, I know little of the actual work that goes into a game so I find the subject of such jobs interesting.

It's work, no doubt about that. Sitting around and coming up with ideas for games is only part of my job. The bulk of my job is creating and communicating specific details that get games made the way they are.

Here's my personal break down for the job.
The Good:
-You are a very integral part of the development process. If you do well as a designer, you can command respect from many many people across multiple disciplines.

-One big plus for me is I find the job mentally stimulating. I solve a lot of problems every day. Most of those problems are either communication, how to improve a product and how to adapt a design around a constraint(technical, artistic, target audience, etc.)

The Bad:
-Low pay. Given my education(BA/Applied Mathematics & Scientific Programming at a world famous research University) I could be making significantly higher amounts of money than I am. Being happy is a benefit no amount of money can pay for, but it makes buying a home & doing all that "grown up" stuff a lot more difficult.

-Limited freedom. Sadly, I work in the world of licensed Intellectual Properties. I may come up with some great ideas, but they can(and often are) shot down by licensors. They often make unreasonable demands and you'll have to rebuff them. In larger teams, you may find yourself just doing the "nitty gritty" work a lead designer hands down to you.

The Fugly:
-I know I have it better than 99% of the video game workers in the world. I work reasonable hours, I command respect from my team members and most importantly, other members of my team are helping me become a much better designer. I put this under "The Fugly" since sadly, I've been there where hours were insane. Hygene and food were demoted to "hobby" status due to lack of time. If you work as a designer at EA, most American companies, every game company in Japan I've got contacts in(which is 90% of those you folks can name and maybe even then some) and heck, a lot of companies in Europe(my friend at Ubisoft Italy had a crunch from hell!) you are likely to have bad, maybe even law-breaking working conditions.

I can elaborate more on a topic I've mentioned, or things you can do to help you get this job(there are aboslutely no guarentees!) etc.

[Inochi 命]

I'm actually looking to get into the game design/direction field myself (as I have been for about half my life now). I'd even be willing to work for low pay and a ruthless amount of hours per week for it.

What games have you worked on, Majuunun? got a website, maybe?

[Cyhirae]

Unemployment's been the name of a game for a month now- still hunting for a 'real' job... Not easy around here though unless you can commute a good long ways.

Though seems I've become something of an amateur fortune teller. Go figure.

[Shigure]

i'm one of the guards that work for the ruling family in my country , there are too many of us, don't worry guys, nothing that is all special lol

[Majuunun]

inochi said:

I'm actually looking to get into the game design/direction field myself (as I have been for about half my life now). I'd even be willing to work for low pay and a ruthless amount of hours per week for it.

What have you been doing so far towards that goal?
Going to school? And hopefully, at a good 4 year university?
Modding?
Making card games?
Networking?

As for the willingness to take low pay, don't sell yourself too short. I suppose if you're desparate to make a statement like the one you did, apply here:
www.tri-ace.co.jp/en/recruit/category/index.html
I know a Canadian guy who's working there as a programmer.

What games have you worked on, Majuunun? got a website, maybe?

You probably haven't heard on the games I've done design work for. The Publisher hasn't even updated their website for this product line with the SKUs I worked on. ><
www.jakkstvgames.com/

The games I tested on are quite high profile:
Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2
Chrome Hounds

[Inochi 命]

You make those plug n play TV games? Of course I've heard of those... those things have sold like hotcakes.

and woah... tri-Ace is a good idea for anyone who is desperate and will work for low pay? really? Because from what know, tri-Ace has made some amazing games in the RPG genre and has been quite successful. I personally haven't cared for their games before, though. My dream job would be to design at Neverland or Falcom or something. I'd be surprised if tri-Ace wasn't better paying than either of those.

As for me, no I'm not in a 4 year university or anything nor intend to go to one. All we've got around here as far as gaming education goes are private colleges like IADT, where I used to go but left after almost 2 semester (something I'd really rather not get in to explaining right now). I have made a card game before though... about 3 years ago in Object Oriented Turing. I did all the graphics and programing myself, but admittedly the programing part of it was quite messy and I've come to learn that programing will never be my thing (also, I've moved on from Turing and into C++ in college).

I'm actually in the rough at the moment now that I've left IADT (although I've always known my decision would have it's share of downsides)... I've decided to create my own design documents (I've had a ton of ideas but have finally decided to choose one of them to focus on first) and find a place here to get into QA. I've already talked with a few people who have gone about getting into the field successfully this same way. But really, I'm still mostly at the stage of teaching myself at the moment. Besides writing and drawing (the latter of which I haven't gotten around to as much as I'd like), I've been bettering my skill at 3DS max with modeling and animating. I'm trying to do anything I can to communicate my ideas. I'm going to eventually get a website going to sample more of my work (once I'm confident enough in it). My idea is to do whatever I can to get attention and get noticed once I've gotten everything straightened out.

These past two years have been hectic, I really had no idea where I was gonna end up after high school. I had a lot of hope in IADT but it ended up letting me down. My decision on which paths to take have had to be reworked constantly. I can't imagine where I'll be by the year's end. 3 years ago I had imagined myself to be realizing my ideas by 19 (which has been my age current since the end of December)... it's quite funny thinking back to that time now

Of course, no one said this was gonna be easy (no matter which path you take), including me.

[Majuunun]

You've heard of those TV games? Wow! I worked on the Deal or No Deal game show adaptation. That show drives me batty but I think our adaptation of it went well. Especially the original mini-games I designed collaboratively with my department(which, back then, was me and my boss.)

Unlike most NA/EU companies, Tri-Ace is certainly more open to taking people with little/no experience. That lower barrier is a benefit for hopefuls for sure. You've got nothing to lose by applying and once you get your first job, you're in. There is a lot of job hopping that goes on, but it's so much easier when you're in.

<Rant Mode On>
Funny, when I first had this job, I thought I was "wasting" my degree but being part of the candidate hiring process quickly changed that. "Gaming education" at least as far as game design goes, seems like a complete and utter joke at the expense of the students.

I and a number of people I work with think very lowly of game development degrees. A lot of these schools seem very interested in taking money from a lot of game designer hopefuls and leaving them with "skills" that just aren't adiquate for an industry job.

Back when I the design department at my company consisted of me and my boss, I interviewed loads of game design candidates. Few of the candidates that got to interview phase were from these game schools. These people are supposedly from "premiere game schools" like Full Sail and Carnagie Mellon University's graduate interactive media studies program. These candidates interviewed and tested extremely poorly.

The more I've mingled with these people, the further my opinion gets re-enforced. No vocational education can teach you enough to fit right into a job. Learning quickly, analyzing hypothetical situations, teamwork and being proactive are far more important. Many people including myself believe that a 4-year university degree or an equivelant experience do the best job of embuing an individual with these skills.

Scream and cry about how unfair this bias may be. Until I meet a statistically significant enough portion of game design program graduates that I would want my company to hire, it's going to remain.
</Rant Mode Off>

Keep sharpening advanced meands of communication such as doing your own modeling/animation, but be sure you're capable of communicating your ideas without the use of any flash or flair. I got my job with a pair of 2-3 page concise text documents.

[Inochi 命]

heh, those games are great with casual gamers. I've got a 30 y.o. cousin sister, who's married with children, and she's got 5 of those things. she and her husband play them with their kids. The low cost and ease of setting it up and playing are huge with "non gamers". But yeah, I'd never buy those things, and I also can't stand Deal or No Deal either (the only person who likes to watch it in my home is my dad who says "its funny to see how greedy some people are").

As to your rant, no screaming and crying from me! I completely agree with what you've said. I know because I've been there. Also, you're not the first to say it... other from the same or similar field say the same and I've also read a few articles about it so you're definitely not alone. Game development colleges are quite laid back and although they may seem like they can give a student a good feel of what it's like to work in the industry, I'm sure it's really nowhere near the full picture. They tell you all about how it really is, but the school's own environment should feel that way too. I personally also felt like I was a guinea pig to them testing the waters for a real game development school or something. I'm sure that something like going through a serious 4 year university degree could more likely garner you skills that can more easily translate into the real thing than going to a game school.

I love to express myself through text, art, drawings, 3d studio, and stuff like that... but probably my greatest flaw in communication (and probably my greatest hurdle in reaching my dream at the moment) is my lack of oral communication skills, confidence, and social skills. Outside of the internet, the only people I really talk to are my direct family members and that didn't change when I was going to IADT either... I was the quiet guy and although some instructors over there had said things like "watch out for the quiet guys, they're always the ones thinking ahead of the others" (followed by everyone turning their heads towards me), I knew that there were a ton of flaws behind it.

I have a terrible phobia of presenting myself and tend to wait for others to come up to me and start conversations. I was hoping things would improve at IADT, but I couldn't get a long with anyone over there, nor was I encouraged to. This was an amazing revelation as I had initially thought I'd finally be among those like me and would easily fit in, but it really turned out nothing like I had imagine (or had been told... such as being being told that I'd be put into a group of other students fresh out of high school like I was).

I probably really just have more of a problem in situations where I have to get the first word in or in front of a large group. I'd imagine that I'd be ok in an interview or something. I've practiced things like making up a game about two random things in 15 minutes before, which I've heard they do a lot in interviews for game design positions.

[Stan]

majuunun said:

You probably haven't heard on the games I've done design work for. The Publisher hasn't even updated their website for this product line with the SKUs I worked on. ><
www.jakkstvgames.com/

On that site, the second one (counting from the left) -- I own that one. My sister got it for me as a small gift. Nice classic collection of arcade games. Too bad I'm never all that good at arcade games. Still, it's cool to know that you're involved in those.

As for education, I couldn't agree more about getting a real degree. I'd even recommend starting with high school classes (if it's not too late) to anyone who wants to get in the industry. As a TA (in computer engineering), I see far too many students struggle with the intro classes on programming. In my opinion, colleges (I've seen multiple college programs) go through the material way too fast for most to keep up. About the only ones that do are the ones that already taught themselves or learned in high school. The rest just barely, if at all, survive, and their skills are abysmal at best. It takes them years to catch up.

[Majuunun]

Some of those TV games are pretty cool. They're about to put out a new line of them that I'm a bit ashamed to say I worked on...>_>

Inochi:
I have taken quite a bit of flack for that comment. Even when I make it quite clear it's not that game colleges can't produce capable candidates(even though that's what my direct experience suggests) but the colleges don't make people better than anywhere else.

As for your career stuff, before you go about trying to make a massive doc speccing out your games, do pitches. If you were to bring me 10 pages of documents to an interview, 3 1-2 page pitches and 1 3-4 page concept document would be a lot nicer.
1-I'll have time to completely read the document during the course of the interview and ask some questions.
2-Most places have standards on how they want game design docs done. This was one of the first things I learned on the job.
3-The pitch is universal, unlike the GDD(see item 2.) Even then, job interviews are pitches. You've got to effectively sell yourself for the position and company. Pitching nebulous things like ideas to publishers for big bucks is an enormously important role of the design team. It pays everyone else.

What your pitch should accomplish:
#1-This is the big one: Hook the reader. Get him or her excited about your idea. #2-Give a little taste. It's like an appetizer. You want to make the client hungry for more but give them an idea of what's to come.
#3-Show some of your other skills! Every pitch I've done features a lot of artwork and imagery. I'm definitely putting graphic design and art skills to use along with text writing. If I had the time, I'd love to throw in movies and sound.

I have an extraordinary fear of public speaking. I had quite a few job interviews before my design gig interview so I was used to initiating conversation and presenting in front of a group of 5 strangers.

This sounds crazy, but I pretty much had to get my brain into the "supervillain" mentality. I *will* completely obliterate my competition and get that borderline arrogant/stupid amount of cool and confidence in my abilities to destroy any question or challenge placed before me. I'm taking over that interview room and making it my domain.

Sure, after that interview, I blacked out for 30 seconds but I got my job. @_@ It worked. @_@

Good luck dude.

[Inochi 命]

drakano: I completely agree about getting some prior experiance before going into a gaming college. I was lucky enough to, despite being the youngest in my class in college, have taken three programming classes and two 3D modeling classes in high school. Half of my classes hadn't had that such privileges (many said that when they went to high school, there were never such options available to them), and were really confused about a lot of things for quite some time and really held the class back (at times I was completely bored out of my skull in that first semester as a result of things being repeatedly taught).

Majuunun: thanks a ton for your help... seriously. It's rare that I get any sort of guidance or encouragement from anyone. Most of my guidance has come from seeking out internet articles on how to get into the industry. I've been pretty much been going in every direction. and I think I know what you mean about that "supervilliain mentality" as I think I've been in that position quite a bit before as well. I'm the same whenever I try to explain anything to anyone, really especially when I want to voice my opinion on something. I love debating things when it's about the right topic.

and on another note more related to this topic: I'm starting a paper route next month yay for cash. Origin will soon be mine.