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Post by Kimimi on Apr 24, 2011 2:57:16 GMT -5
"Dead systems" is very much in the eye of the beholder; to give just one example the Dreamcast has had Fast Striker released recently and has Sturmwind on the way. It's all a case of risk, both for the board and for the staff (as we're the ones that are responsible for allowing it), and 16bit is the line we feel comfortable with. It's not as though you'll have any trouble finding anything later through Google.
Oh and re: translation patches - it's intended to make it clear that sharing a PS2 (as one example) translation patch file is fine, but sharing a translated PS2 ISO is not. If the game falls under the "16bit and under" rule anyway then it's no problem sharing them patched.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Apr 24, 2011 17:43:07 GMT -5
About the patches: Oh, that's good to know.  About the "dead systems" boundary: Hm... But are those games "actual" legal games? As in, copyrighted and everything...? I ask, because I know recently (an year or two back) there was a PC Engine game (thus 16-bit) actually released for it. Thing is, I think it isn't copyrighted (nor do I think games can be made and copyrighted for the PC Engine anymore.... or can they?), making it being classified as... a fan game? (Not saying pirating that guy would be fine, though! I think it would be as bad as pirating a, say, new Windows game.) Well, I might be wrong about these things, though. I admit I don't know much about how copyrights and such work. xD If I might suggest, why not, then, extend the "16-bit games and under only" boundary to "dead systems" for systems and "games made for dead systems which were released during or prior to 2001"? But even if not, I guess I'll understand. Also, yeah, I understand the "risk" part: techniiiiiiiiiiiiiiically, all forms of game "imagery" (game ROM, diskette image, DVD image and so on) and their distributions fall under "piracy", even if the games are literally 30 years old. Even if someone buys a game and makes a backup in case the original breaks (the very backing-up is illegal, unless if the person is given authorization by the companies involved). In fact, even modifying (patching included - though the creation and sharing of patches themselves isn't) or analyzing the internal data of a commercial game is illegal. So, yeah, for any rule we set for ALoY about piracy, it's all for the sake of good sense, if anything. E.g.: It's ultimately nonsensical the prohibition of sharing FM-7 games, in my opinion. |
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Post by Red Hairdo on Apr 24, 2011 19:05:57 GMT -5
Hmmmmmm... I hate to admit it, but you're right. I agree with your suggestion...
(By the way, just wanted to add that even Mega Drive games and systems STILL are officially sold here in Brazil! Just read an article about it the other day. xD)
Going by the border you established, it would remove all DOS and Apple II/Power-PC and early Macintoshes games (english releases), as well as most of the famous consoles' games such as the SNES, NES, MD, PCEngine, Sega CD.
Hm, and I wonder if in Japan they launched MSX and PC-88 and PC-98 games for the Virtual Console.
...
@_@
I'm starting to think it'd be simpler and safer to just forbid game distribution as a whole...
=/
Or even establish a "share files at your own risk" rule, and just not moderate the "piracy" (unless if blatantly harmful, like direct links to recent PC games), since no one but the poster would be guilty of it. We are users - not policemen.
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Post by Kimimi on Apr 25, 2011 0:01:17 GMT -5
As far as piracy goes -
"Allow everything" - puts the board at risk as it's both in direct conflict with the ToS for Proboards and certain comanies are actively seeking out places that share "hot" titles. Puts staff at risk as we're ultimately the ones allowing such content to remain on the boards.
"Allow nothing" - we thought this was too draconian, as somebody sharing an old R Type ROM really isn't hurting anybody.
At the end of the day, the 16bit rule is staying. It doesn't stop anyone from procuring whatever they wish on the many other boards out there that are comfortable with filesharing but it doesn't completely cut out all the fun here either.
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Post by Mutagene on Apr 25, 2011 9:22:06 GMT -5
Honestly, I think that our community is so tight-knit and polite that piracy shouldn't be an issue. I don't remember it having been an issue since I've joined here, and things have only gotten more tame since then.
'Course, it could always pop up sometime, but it'd be so uncommon that even just one moderator could take care of it. After all, the board is for a small subset of fans of a not-exactly-legendary series among English-speaking gamers, right? And we haven't had many bots or malignant users...
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Post by AllenSmithee on Apr 25, 2011 12:43:50 GMT -5
I got ISOs to all the greatest PS3 games yo. Just like, PM me, man, I'mma hook you up with emulators n shit.
Like, I'm talking Metal Gear Rising and like, Final Fantasy XII-2. Seriously cool stuff.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Apr 25, 2011 12:46:18 GMT -5
I've dealt with my fair share during my time as moderator, actually... I just did it all behind the scenes. You'd be surprised how often this kind of thing happens, though! -Tom You mean people direct-linking to recent Falcom PC games or something? xD But yeah, exactly what Mutagene said. Actually, "piracy" has never been an issue in ALoY. Never. Even before I joined in 2006 (I actually went and read up all posts and threads that came before me XD). Of course, the things we didn't allow were random links to recent Falcom games like Ys I.II COMPLETE (not recent anymore, but it's not that old yet, especially since Falcom still sells it), YsF, Ys Origin etc.. Though we, Seldane especially, always supported "piracy". xD But we NEVER went as far as to put links to download Falcom's PC games. We always discussed things about all of the games and how to get, digitally or physically, some of the oldest Ys games unavailable in the market today etc. To name a big example, Ys II Special. We all got it thanks to ALoY's old portal page. Which was later available even in HG101. We didn't know even know of its existence, and even less on how to acquire it in any given form. And it turned out to be one of the best Ys games ever released, with no exaggeration. All thanks to "piracy"... (Definitely unharmful one, yeah. Though so is the sharing of most i.e. Saturn titles. Certainly more unharmful than SNES' or even PCEngine's.) Also, lastly: Well, as Mutagene mentioned, definitely no "hot" title will ever be available here. The closest thing to that would be those recent PSP Falcom games released in the US, and I think we all agreed not to allow those. Nothing that came before 2001-ish, as I had suggested, even... Also, let me have a look at the ProBoards ToS... Either today or some other time. |
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Post by Kimimi on Apr 25, 2011 13:20:05 GMT -5
Red, I appreciate the feelings but it's really not up for discussion and the rule will not change.
The very oldest Ys games would fall well within the rules anyway, you are as free to discuss and share Pyramid Sorcerian and Star Trader 'til your router melts - same as always. All this does is keep our noses clean and makes thing clear for everyone.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Apr 25, 2011 14:17:43 GMT -5
Red, I appreciate the feelings but it's really not up for discussion and the rule will not change. ... I can agree it's not up for me to decide, sure. But "not up for discussion" feels like a bit too much. I mean, my intent isn't even to confront anyone, but to rather gather everyone up and present what I find to be a problem (and why), then present suggestions, even if one after another. I think the thread has been open for people to voice their opinion and make suggestions on the new rules, whether they are accepted or not. I don't think this should change, either. About my suggestions earlier: What bothers me the most is that Falcom Classics and Falcom Classics II aren't allowed to be shared with the rules as they are. They are two must-try games (in my opinion) for Falcom (especially Ys) fans for the Saturn, which are out-of-print, japan-only, unavailable for sale digitally and is made for a dead, abandoned system. It's not even up on the Virtual Console, unlike SNES games etc.. It's illogical: the purpose for the boundary is to avoid hurting the involved game companies financially, so it doesn't make any sense that games available i.e. otherwise on the Virtual Console can be shared and the ones specified above can't. (This logic's veracity is also independent of ProBoard's Terms of Service.) That's why I agree with, at least, Wyrdwad's suggestion. (Or even the "do it at your own risk one", but if you say it directly conflicts with ProBoard's ToS to the point even those who didn't post the illegal content didn't censor it could end up suffering, even if ALoY adopted the rule specified above, then I guess we probably should rule it out.) Again, just trying to reach a sound consensus. Nothing, but that. |
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Post by Kimimi on Apr 25, 2011 19:40:28 GMT -5
MP83: Oh yeah, I've got no issues with sharing FC I & II *remembers that I still haven't bought them myself*
Red: If that was your specific issue then we need to know it in your *first* post, because it wasn't until your fifth that you mentioned that's what you wanted to do. I can't help if I don't know what you're trying to do ^^~
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Post by Red Hairdo on Apr 25, 2011 23:03:29 GMT -5
That's good to know. But really, I tried to suggest something I considered to be "better" for us to adopt as part of the rules in general, meaning that it could apply to simply every Saturn game, even though my personal interest was to share only the FCs. It wouldn't be fair if others wanted to share some other Saturn game, yet were not allowed! So I presented a suggestion that I found to be the best for everyone. Truth be told, though... xD I also had in mind to share "Segagaga", a Dreamcast game made in 2001. It's in the very same situation as the FCs and others: out-of-print, japan-only, unavailable for sale digitally and is made for a dead, abandoned system (even though games are still released for it, the system was discontinued, with Sega leaving the Hardware market). No game company can get any profit from it anymore, as it is right now. Reason behind me wanting to share "Segagaga"? A random Ys reference. XD *SHOT* (Though it seems to be an outstanding game of its own, too, for those who understand japanese.) But yeah, I'm happy enough being able to share the FCs freely at least.  |
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Post by Red Hairdo on May 16, 2011 2:19:35 GMT -5
Hmmm, what about demo discs of PS2 games? As in, discs with demos of games people can play a bit, so that they can decide whether they want to buy the full game later or not. The purpose of demos is to "tempt" people to buy the full games, as far as I'm aware, no? |
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Post by Kimimi on May 16, 2011 12:47:53 GMT -5
Demos are intended to be distributed as freebies, so I don't see why that would be a problem.
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Post by Kimimi on May 16, 2011 23:19:00 GMT -5
There was a nifty retail demo of Biohazard 0 too, I used to own that one. Came in a neat little jewel case with the instructions printed on the back of the inlay card.
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Post by Red Hairdo on May 17, 2011 15:13:09 GMT -5
There are actually some retail demos in Japan, strangely enough. I don't think there are ANYMORE, but there were even as late as the PS2 era -- I still remember accidentally buying the demo version of Gitaroo Man instead of the full game, because I failed to notice the fine print on the case (and yes, it came in a case and all!) that said "demo version."  -Tom Hmmm, I looked up japanese demos of PS2 Ys games, but failed to find any of those, at least. xD I looked at those sites that list (supposedly) the name and ID of every single official PS2 game ever released. |
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Kuro-chan
Limendy
Clones are awesome! ... Even with the wrong hair colour...
Posts: 228 
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Post by Kuro-chan on Aug 1, 2011 9:53:43 GMT -5
Demo discs I certainly remember and have purchased a number of them over the years. "Jampack" for Playstation 1, for instance, was the equivalent of a CD magazine which had lots of game demos plus some other content. They were not very expensive, but again, there is the issue of 'being free' and 'infringing on someone's exclusive' property. As I pointed out, they were paid for.
I agree with the notion from Red Hairdo that it is quite a loss for Sega to not bother doing anything with their port of Ys I&II for Sega Saturn. The vids I have seen of it certain show it as an interesting variant to the game.
However, this forum needs to cover it's butt, so trying to offer other people's property for sharing is definitely a no-no around here.
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Post by SkyeWelse on Aug 3, 2011 17:19:32 GMT -5
There are actually some retail demos in Japan, strangely enough. I don't think there are ANYMORE, but there were even as late as the PS2 era -- I still remember accidentally buying the demo version of Gitaroo Man instead of the full game, because I failed to notice the fine print on the case (and yes, it came in a case and all!) that said "demo version." -Tom No worries Tom. I made the SAME exact mistake thinking I was buying some sort of Omake version of Gitaroo Man in Japanese. Bought it in Akihabura and when I got back to the States to try it out, I was surprised. -Thomas |
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Sept 15, 2011 11:37:38 GMT -5
I would like to add that, at its worst, I would like to keep the content of ALoY "PG-13" / "T". That means no pornography, genitalia, sperm, objects/creatures resembling genitalia -- intentional or otherwise blatantly obvious, or anything within that realm. It's fine to use rotten language and crack dirty jokes, just don't go overboard. Thank you. How does that sound? |
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Post by Raison D'etritus on Sept 15, 2011 18:58:37 GMT -5
Aww. Now I can't upload that picture of me!  If I may ask, just out of curiosity, what prompted this? As long as I can still hit on you *touches leg* and make my trademark idiocies, I'm fine (no penis avatars for me, Nosiree!), but I assume there were genitals laying around or some such for this to come up outta the blue? (also, somebody would have to read the whole thread to see that post. . . so it should probably be edited into the topic post. Just a suggestion--feel free to ignore me! ) |
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Sept 15, 2011 20:49:40 GMT -5
What prompts this is that two of the global moderators have children, or have had to watch children -- and some questionable imagery has surfaced at a couple of points. Yes, I'm still allowing members to *type* content that may be questionable; just don't make a habit of it. I won't detail any specifics, as I'm not counting any content that has been retroactively been removed as a mark against any member, but such generally fell under the criteria of my post. Things that are okay include an image that just says "I've got wood!" and shows a character with a log -- it's okay to be said. If it's shown, however, (for example, if a character is shown to actually have an erection, or anything in particular that any innocent youth should NOT be aware of) it's unacceptable. This is for the protection of paternal/maternal figures and their children that may be present as they loom about these forums.
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