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Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 27, 2012 19:58:44 GMT -5
@unsavory I'll make a deeper and organized topic about this later, but my main issue isn't about Ys Eternal really; It's the lack of consistency and coherency in the arguments that back them up and in the rules themselves. I'll make sure to point out with detail what is wrong and why, by bringing up some points I didn't before, and what the PB's ToS (ProBoards' Terms of Service) has to do with it all. I'll do all this in a mild way, though, so no worries. About Ys Eternal, things is, Complete includes both Ys games, but Ys Eternal is only Ys I. It's also not in English. And even though I prefer it, almost every person prefers Complete since it is technically upgraded in most aspects. So I REALLY don't think this could possibly stop a person from playing Ys I-II Complete or Chronicles, especially with the players left hanging with Ys I's ending with all the awesomeness that Ys II has to offer. If people were to be stopped by it, then even things that can currently be shared according to the current rules could have even worse effects (English Ys I/II on 8-bit/16-bit platforms, fan-made or not. Which I don't think is a problem, just like Ys Eternal, but IF it IS a problem, then I'm afraid NO game is safe!  ). Lastly... Ys Eternal is SO old now, that even getting it to run is becoming less and less viable. Just saying. |
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jun 27, 2012 21:31:59 GMT -5
@ Red -- No worries, man. It's like I say -- everyone is entitled to their opinions and questions. We can't really grow as a community without being open to criticism, especially of a constructive nature. If our policies are counter-productive and violate ProBoards' ToS, then we have every right to know and every reason to research this of our own volition. The last thing we want is for our diverse growing community to be shut down. I've been a hypocrite on several known occasions, notably on your behalf, as well as FM-77's, and my own. (Remember Romancia FC? What about the Ys VI PS2 & PSP Konami OST rips? What about Ys II Special? The Faxanadu R3 project?)  Believe me when I say that I don't like raining on your parade, because it really isn't just your parade; it's ALoY's parade. If it weren't for this community, and its efforts to translate various Falcom games, I don't know where XSEED would've been today. I also think about Wyrdwad, who I would say has done a superb job in connecting XSEED and ALoY. He plugged away for us, being another of our Falcom-supporting members. I personally feel that the relationship between XSEED and ALoY shouldn't be taken lightly, and will do my part to keep that bridge maintained. If our policies don't coincide, we'll take proper action to maintain our relationships with the very companies who support Falcom. @ Lore -- No worries.  A lot of our newest members start off asking similar questions. As long as we make our policies clear and we're not scaring away newbies and regulars alike in doing so, then we're good. |
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 27, 2012 23:27:07 GMT -5
You are making Wyrdwad sound like Chester. xD And yeah, I definitely don't intend to worry XSEED/Falcom. My personal position on this is not a "share everything!" thing. But also not "share nothing". About the ToS and ALoY, don't worry about ALoY itself, because the way PB operates, according to their ToS, is like this: Say copyrighted material is shared, and the copyright holder sees it. The copyright holder requests this to be solved, and what PB does is to simply remove/disable links to the "offending material". What in theory is possible afterwards, though, is that at worst the third-party itself has the means to sue the person. That is: nothing happens to ALoY, nothing happens to anyone else in ALoY. And we never, EVER shared material in its history that'd cause damages in others' sales anyway. (We rather promote and FEED them money more than anything - networking is all there is for free propaganda.) We never tolerated the sharing of PC games that Falcom still sells (or now even XSEED on Steam!), not even Seldane, and the same always applied for the PSP (and PS2, PS3, PSV, DS, 3DS, GC, Wii, Xbox and Xbox 360 and new games on dead systems). Common and good sense in sharing of files kind of always dictates what to share and what not to share. We never lacked that. Nor ever will. And really, taking into account how ROMs and whatnot spread like a virus over the past few decades over the internet, we all know no one is going to nitpick on anything shared that doesn't fit the platforms/cases mentioned above (i.e.: Segagaga on Dreamcast, Ys III on Mega Drive etc.). Especially on something as niche as Ys. The sharing of relics like these definitely cause no damages, and at most rather raise interest on people on the series, and keep them hooked, waiting for upcoming releases, as the series is still going on, and encourage them to go for more. Companies don't care much about these anyway, and some even sell the emulation (Virtual Console, PSN etc.), seeing how popular and profitable they can be. The more a company sticks to the people's side, the better for them, and they all know it so well they now have these Twitter and Facebook accounts. (They have those for some other reasons as well to further boost sales, but that's another subject.) IMHO, the best course of action would be a limited "share it at your own risk" policy. "Limited", because when something obviously is harmful, the moderators should remove it immediately, like a link to those recent PC or PSP games or something: no need for further analysis on those cases. Then warn the user not to do it ever again right after. If user repeats it, then I think banning or temporary suspension should be considered, but this is kind of extremely unlike to happen: most people stop after being warned. So, what are all you guys' thoughts? (I know this is offtopic, but I felt it'd be best to be brought up now.) Randomness: I lol-ed at this on the ToS under "Prohibited Uses": "(d) while, using the Website and Services, use "ad blocking" software or similar built-in web browser options designed to hide, block or prevent the proper display of online advertising; (e) modify or change the placement and location of any advertisement appearing on the Website;".  |
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jun 28, 2012 0:17:55 GMT -5
I don't see how I make Wyrdwad sound like Chester.  |
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 28, 2012 0:25:56 GMT -5
"Sacrificing" himself for the sake of us all in ALoY, by "leaving" it.  And leaves us to take care of it. |
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jun 28, 2012 0:49:01 GMT -5
I never said that he was a martyr -- Wyrdwad neither left nor made a sacrifice. If anything, he knew the right people and united them to enrich everyone's eastern A/RPG experience. With his powers of suggestion, XSEED was able to bring over games that we never thought possible. Not once did we expect that we'd have official English releases of these titles since Konami's sub-par ports -- especially not with the amount of time that has elapsed since their native releases. Not a hero, not a martyr, just a regular guy who deserves our thanks, and credit where credit is due.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 28, 2012 1:01:50 GMT -5
Yes, definitely. xD And OK, now I understood. It was the "plugged away" part that somehow gave me that impression, sorry.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 28, 2012 2:03:39 GMT -5
Hm, you know... I'm giving this a lot of thought, and...
Having reread some parts of the ToS, even if it's extremely unlikely, I can't say it's impossible that the Board itself could get deleted if people started sharing these things, even things that don't go against the current ALoY rules, like, say, SNES games.
I think it'd very selfish of me to post even things like that and consequently put ALoY into risk on that.
(By the way, the current rules and where I stand doesn't have a gap that big: the main difference is my position regarding N64, PS1, Dreamcast, Sega Saturn and some old and unpurchasable PC games.)
In whichever case... I feel we kind of have the need to determine, as a community, that is, as a whole, how we ALL (not just very few selected people) should deal with "piracy". A total no-no (and at most share things on PMs) or leave it open in some way?
A poll/thread could be made dedicated to everyone's opinion on how ALoY should face this matter. How does that sound?
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jun 28, 2012 2:45:24 GMT -5
Yes, I'm guessing at the specifics -- but N64? I can't think of any N64 Falcom titles. If there is one, I'd be intrigued to find out what exactly it is.
As far as polling/debating goes, didn't we have a great piracy debate a year or two ago?
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 28, 2012 3:03:54 GMT -5
At most I recall a topic about "Do you pirate?", but it wasn't made in a way it would reflect ALoY's rules back then, but it could be useful to dig it up now. But in any case I think a new, more dedicated poll/thread could be considered. Also, about your guesses, the systems I brought up are the ones for which the current rules don't allow to have their games shared, but that yet I think there should be no problem in doing so (with the exception of recent games released for, as far as I know, PC Engine and Dreamcast), Falcom or not. And yeah, there's no Falcom-related game on the N64, but I think if someone ever wanted to share something from it, it'd be fine. ...And considering Sony's fussiness, maybe PS1 ones also should not be shared, at least the titles available on PSN. Also, Ys II Special was released in 1994, so it's OK within the current rules (and MANTRA went out of business years before ALoY was created even). So is Lord Monarch Pro, a Windows 95 game with Ys cameos. And yes, Ys ETERNAL and even Ys II ETERNAL, but as for Ys II ETERNAL, it might be a bit complicated because it's ALMOST identical to Ys II COMPLETE, so just the first one might be better. (Ys II Eternal came in 2001, too, 3 years after Ys Eternal). Aside that, there's also Vantage Master V2, which is not only not for sale anymore, but Falcom also released it for free in EngRish under the name "Vantage Master Online". You can play CD-DA music on Vantage Master Online, though, if you happen to have and insert Vantage Master V2's CD into the PC. There would also be the very first "Vantage Master" game, but that thing is just unacquirable in any shop/site in ANY given form, very sadly. And also some "Minna no Vantage Master" games: same problem. You are right about the Sega Saturn. PS1, no, I checked and saw Lord Monarch for it lacks Ys cameos, so it's not of my interest. But The Granstream Saga is, for it features Ys cameos and references in a few, amazing ways. (Muscular ally character breaking wall of rocks and saving you from a kind of prison, for example.) Dreamcast, no. Sorcerian must be pretty sweet for it, but my main interest is simply Segagaga, with its "Sauce" joke on Ys. |
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Lore
Rheboll
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Post by Lore on Jun 28, 2012 3:16:32 GMT -5
@ Red -- No worries, man. It's like I say -- everyone is entitled to their opinions and questions. We can't really grow as a community without being open to criticism, especially of a constructive nature. If our policies are counter-productive and violate ProBoards' ToS, then we have every right to know and every reason to research this of our own volition. The last thing we want is for our diverse growing community to be shut down. I've been a hypocrite on several known occasions, notably on your behalf, as well as FM-77's, and my own. (Remember Romancia FC? What about the Ys VI PS2 & PSP Konami OST rips? What about Ys II Special? The Faxanadu R3 project?) Believe me when I say that I don't like raining on your parade, because it really isn't just your parade; it's ALoY's parade. If it weren't for this community, and its efforts to translate various Falcom games, I don't know where XSEED would've been today. I also think about Wyrdwad, who I would say has done a superb job in connecting XSEED and ALoY. He plugged away for us, being another of our Falcom-supporting members. I personally feel that the relationship between XSEED and ALoY shouldn't be taken lightly, and will do my part to keep that bridge maintained. If our policies don't coincide, we'll take proper action to maintain our relationships with the very companies who support Falcom. @ Lore -- No worries. A lot of our newest members start off asking similar questions. As long as we make our policies clear and we're not scaring away newbies and regulars alike in doing so, then we're good. Ok =) Now since i know few things, it wont hapen again =) It also seems like i made some nice chat topic =D |
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Post by Xalphenos on Jun 28, 2012 6:08:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is the original or the version 2 but Vantage master is still for sale. I think that's the problem. Its old and not for sale physically anymore, but Falcom is still profiting from it through digretto. It would be hard to make completely certain that a game really is totally abandonware. To add to that there are plenty of pre 96 games for sale on GOG, maybe steam as well, and obviously shouldn't be allowable. Not that those games, having nothing to do with Ys, would likely ever be posted here. However I feel that this forum is likely one of the few that could get away with instituting a "common sense" clause. Where as it's nothing after 96 unless you can make a good case that sharing won't matter/be harmful. |
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jun 28, 2012 6:33:01 GMT -5
Oh, sweet! I didn't know that place! That's the original Vantage Master. You can tell by looking at picture 3, the witch artwork. (Funny how they are selling THAT, though, considering Falcom put up an EngRish Vantage Master V2 on their website for free and is still there.) Thanks for showing me this! And, that's exactly how I feel as well. Good to know your input on the matter. |
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Believe me when I say that I don't like raining on your parade, because it really isn't just your parade; it's ALoY's parade. If it weren't for this community, and its efforts to translate various Falcom games, I don't know where XSEED would've been today. I also think about Wyrdwad, who I would say has done a superb job in connecting XSEED and ALoY. He plugged away for us, being another of our Falcom-supporting members. I personally feel that the relationship between XSEED and ALoY shouldn't be taken lightly, and will do my part to keep that bridge maintained. If our policies don't coincide, we'll take proper action to maintain our relationships with the very companies who support Falcom.
A lot of our newest members start off asking similar questions. As long as we make our policies clear and we're not scaring away newbies and regulars alike in doing so, then we're good.
And leaves us to take care of it.
