Dialogue - Dramatic or Mundane?

[gnosis301]

Dialogue is a powerful means of advancing a story through the interactions between characters. It is also one of the ways that a narrative communicates with the reader, allowing the player to feel a sense of drama, humor, or blandness. Sometimes, however, dialogue doesn't communicate properly with the reader. Have you ever noticed that some dialogue in certain games can be overbearingly dramatic or archaic (leading to a sense of melodrama), or that it's dulled by bland words (making extraordinary situations out to be everyday)?

In your opinion, what are some of the heaviest offenders when it comes to mismatching dialogue to the situation at hand? Are there certain situations in which you feel that more dramatic dialogue is required, and some which you feel are better served by more modern, casual words? I'd like to focus on choice of words used by translators and writers, rather than delivery by actors, and I'd really enjoy hearing your opinions!

[SkyeWelse]

Well... For starters. "Die Monster! You don't BELONG in this world!" - Richter from CSotN or "Wow! What a MANSION!" -Wesker, Resident Evil are serious over emphasized dialogue(s) that really throw off the scene at hand. There are several more like them, but I think those especially stand out.

As for non-voiceacted dialogue. I would say that Zone of the Enders: The Second Runner, Legend of Dragoon have some terrible stagnant dialogue that really doesn't do any kind of justice to the characters or plot even though they are two incredible games with incredible storylines (least toward the end of Dragoon, the first half really isn't that great).

There are many more annoyances and merits that I'd love to bring up and talk about but since my time is limited right now, I'll just touch on one that really bugs me.

The voice of Ansem from Kingdom Hearts I and II. The original voice of Ansem that Squaresoft brought in to the first game was simply one of the most badass sounding people that really fit someone of Ansem's dark nature and stature. I remember from the very moment he states to Sora: "One who knows nothing, understands (pause) NOTHING", in this really slow, pompous demeaning dialogue, yet very mean and cold sounding that sends a chill down your spine when you hear it." Yet in KHII, they replace Ansem's voice with some other guy who utters the same exact line from KH in a story flashback scene... and it sounds awful, run-together and said at a much different tone and volume that makes his character sound hokey at best.

I'll probably have more later, but this will do for now.

-SkyeWelse

[Falcom Director of Fanservice]

Wait wait wait.

You're expecting something good from anything Kingdom Hearts? No, seriously? Like, good dramatic dialogue? In FF.net the game? and great voices in something with the voices of Donald and Goofy, who are distinctive and well loved, but hardly great for anythign serious? And internal consistancy from something that lacks external consistancy?

[Inochi 命]

The less talk, the better. Why the prelude before a battle? How about getting straight to the "Have at you!"?

Since my short-lived FF fandom back when I was in my pre-teens, I haven't had much of a taste for emphises in storyline in video games. There are other, much less used ways to bring out emotion and even character in video games. I've quickly grown tired of the way things are excessively explained and pointed out in a lot of Japanese games and anime. I prefer the way they did it in Metroid Prime, for example. It let you figure out and experiance the story yourself instead of having it spoon fed to you through cut scenes and explanations after every other stage. Why have various characters tell you that the world is on the verge of doom when you can come to that deduction on your own, resulting it a much more exciting and dark revelation? Then again, Metroid Prime doesn't have any NPCs and is quite isolated (which is a strong point for the entire series, actually), but its story telling method still worked to describe the few character groups that were connected to the game.

Sorry if i've taken the thread topic off in a tangent, but that's over all how I generally feel about stories in video games. Emphases on story usually means there'll be a lot of dialogue, and dialogue means there's times where I won't be doing anything in the game. But actually, the only time I've ever found myself actually annoyed with character dialogue is when there's voice overs. Although it's still possible to show a dramatic or melodramatic tone through text, it never seems that way most of the time (unless they're trying to make it blatantly obvious). And Konami's games are no exception to this

[Falcom Director of Fanservice]

The problem with the deduction method is that it sorta sucks when you figure out stuff way before the characters do.

[Inochi 命]

I haven't played nor have heard of too many games with stories that use the "deduction method" though so I can't think of any examples where you figure things out way before the character... but in Metroid's case, you mostly ARE the character anyways. When you learn something, it's considered that Samus learns it too (whither it's from things happening or from things you read/examine).

[Inochi 命]

"Hell, I don't even play fighting games if none of the characters can compel me outside of their movelist. Hence why I don't play games like Tekken, Street Fighter or Soul Calibur. Utterly dead character rosters, with not an interesting design among them."

Nightmare/Siegfried is not interesting? Compared to anyone in KoF, especially? Maybe his personality doesn't show as much (I do especially like how KoF shows it's unique character personalities), but his background story is pretty crazy for a fighting game character (but seriously, the last thing anyone would care for in a fighting game is story). The only fighter I find to have very uninteresting characters is Virtua Fighter (which I'm surprised you didn't mention)... but the thing is, that's not what I hate most about VF. I just don't like it's style of gameplay either, although I did have some fun trying to master the game. Still, I do have respect for the series despite my taste... I may not like VF a lot, but they're good games (even with it's extremely boring characters).

Over the years I've realized that I have more fun playing Pick Up and Play games, like hand held games and almost any arcade type game (racers, fighters, puzzlers, shooters, light gun, etc), than expansive epics with deep stories. Even for my top 5 games, being RPGs and Action-Adventure games, I can't say that their stories are their strong points. They have pretty generic or light hearted stories as far as stories in video games go ( can barely remember some of their stories most of the time), but I still love their worlds and characters more than most, which is a big bonus next to their amazing gameplay and design.

[Inochi 命]

the bouncer...? Square's "The Bouncer"? That's one of the worst games I have ever played EVER. and for once, most would agree with me. The last game square made that I cared for was Parasite Eve (make that, the only game...).

Deuce, have you played a Virtua Fighter?

I personally like Tekken and SC because they're easy to get in to and it isn't hard for you, as a experienced player who's got all of his characters' moves and combos down, to have fun with against someone who's a novice. Tekken and SC are also the flashiest and most fantasy-filled of the 3D fighters out there. I completely agree that no fighter shows its characters' personalities and style better than KOF (for the exact reasons you mentioned), but I can't say the same for its characters' background stories. It's really too bad that those other fighters can't show off some of their characters the way KoF can. Actually, any 2D fighter does that better than 3D ones, it seems.

[FM-77AV]

Square's games are not bad. They WERE bad (PS1 era), but not anymore. FFXII is the PS2 RPG, for example.

[Del Stimpson]

I have the Bouncer somewhere in my room, got it about a year ago or so with Space Channel 5. I've not gotten around to playing it but one of my best friends loves it to death so It can't be all that bad.

I love my PS1 and all the games that I played on it with the exception of maybe one or two but I really don't remember what they were. I mean really Xenogears came out for the PS1 and that to me is one of games ever, if not the best.

[Del Stimpson]

Yes it is! I got the Special Edition with both games for the PS2 for just $8.00. (Thanks Funcoland!)

[Inochi 命]

Yes, Seldane is wrong because Parasite Eve is from the PS1 Era... and that was their only good game (hehe, it's actually pretty fun trying to make your opinion sound life fact ).

In my opinion, Square should stick to RPGs (no, I haven't played Tobal 2)... Parasite Eve was the only time they benefited from playing around with action-adventure elements.

As for The Bouncer, it's the only street brawler that I never found fun. It left no impression on me at all. It had a terrible fight system, dialogue and VOs (it's the epitome of corny), combo/moves system (only a few new moves, and you can only get new ones between levels? way too restricted), controls, moves, camera system, length, difficulty, characters (generic dudes torn out of various FFs), and I would add Story to the list but it's a street brawler so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt (despite being a game from square). It had nice graphics and cutscenes for an early PS2 game, though.. but it was by square, after all. I just had no fun with it. Now River City Ransom, for example (especially EX for GBA)... that is a fine game. When a game like that exists, saying The Bouncer is the only enjoyable game in it's field to anyone just does not compute with me. The Bouncer could have benefited from more freedom, like stage interaction (almost every other brawler since the 80s has that, why not this one?), and stage selection and paths would make it a hell of a lot less linear. But I guess it can be more enjoyable to fans of square games who don't usually like brawlers.

[Falcom Director of Fanservice]

Of note, I have to agree with Deuce. Good story is helluva important for me in most console RPGs.

On fighitng games, KoF does have some of the most interesting and vibrant characters out there, which is a huge portion of it's joy. Soul Calibur's, on a whole, are not bad, but most are so appealing as KoF's. However, it's bad characters are frickin' terrible. Necrid was awful enough, then they had to make Tira to try and top Necrid's badness. Furthermore: Nightmare needs to soddin' die already. =[

Also: What is the point of Virtua Fighter? Didn't Tekken pretty much put it to shame, before Soul Calibur put Tekken to shame?

Also also: Wild ARMs II's translation was so bad it was great. I swear several characters were actually improved by it.

[Inochi 命]

well, yeah... in RPGs, what could be more important? That's all they've usually got going for them which is probably why I don't play them too often.

If you know the story of nightmare and Siegfried, they're pretty interesting IMO. It's too bad that they don't show off that kinda stuff as well as they did in Soul Edge and the original Soul Calibur, though... SCII and III were very disappointing in the story/character fields. And they cant get rid of either of those characters because there's too many fans who are used to either of their fighting styles (yes, they're different enough).

Virtua Fighter's point is to be the best damn looking game of rock paper scissors ever. Admittedly, it's definitely got the deepest gameplay of any fighter, it's like a game of chess... but I've never liked chess. It takes quite some time to get good enough to do anything cool, but those who do can't seem to stop playing. The way I see it, every fighter has it's own thing to appeal to a different audience... and no fighter is a button masher either.

[Inochi 命]

wyrdwad said:

I loved the characters -- every one of them -- and I thought the different storylines for each of the three main guys were really cool, and tied together wonderfully. Kou Leifoh was my favorite, and I also thought his voice-actor was the best. Reminded me of one of my friends, and perfectly fit his personality.

I'm guessing this is what sets the biggest gaps in our opinion of the game. I rarely like Square Enix character designs and story lines (and its style over all). I guess that's what kind of made it easier for me to see its gameplay faults that so many brawlers before it have not had. But there are actually other people who like the game, though... it's been rated mostly averagely, not poorly. and many reviewers had said that it'd appeal more to fans of the developer's style of games. In my brawlers, I rather have the kind of freedom RCR gives you than an engaging storyline forcing you on a linear path.

I did beat The Bouncer more than once, btw... twice, actually... all within 3 hours. Instead of giving it a third play-through, I just wanted to return the rental for something else the next morning. Me, my brother, and my cousins couldn't get in to the multiplayer either. I remember feeling lucky to have given it a rental instead of buying it on it's release date like I initially wanted, as this was before I got sick of trying SE's games (my next SE game, FFX, was the last straw).

I can relate to characters reminding you of friends, though... but it kinda has the opposite effect for me

Now... hopefully someone can get us off this tangent

[Falcom Director of Fanservice]

I can't counter the Virtua Fighter gameplay comments without more experience in it.

Also, I daresay that Guilty Gears from GGX on up are more responsive than KoF. I know I felt like I was going through mud when I first went from GGXX to KoF 2003. Given that having to deal with a Sol and Ky player taught me how to deal with unbalance pretty well. Especially since I typically use random.

[Inochi 命]

What's this? Fighters being unresponsive? Although there is a bit of strangeness going from one fighting series to another, the controls are more or less the same (especially if going from 2D to 2D, or 3D to 3D). To anyone who finds any Fighter unresponsive... have you at least played Street Fighter II? Once you learn the proper input for a hadoken, everything else is easy to get down (usually). I guess it's just that different fighting series have different timing or are more or less strict with how well you input the correct button combinations.

[Cyhirae]

I've noticed alot of games that make use of heavy dialogue do have a habit of being overly dramatic or just...ill fitting with the slang in the oddest places- though they're slowly becoming rarer these days.

One of my favorite series, hands down, has always suffered this sudden leap between over drama and slang: Suikoden. The first game didn't have much dialogue to offer so it was mostly safe. II (aside from the horrid translation at some points..one character's name gets spelt three different ways throughout it) had a nasty tendancy of overplaying the drama in having a character who's normally very calm and collected suddenly just going like "Oooh...the POWER...I can FEEL it..." or some such- then suddenly snapping back to casual dialouge like that sudden moment of near-psychotic like reaction never happened.

Just won't talk about the FF series. That's a can of worms between old & new alike- but I played all up to 10 and yeah- it's real bad on the over melodrama at the oddest points, especially with its villians and their pre/post battle speeches.

[Inochi 命]

Let me tell you... nothing can dare to rival Indian melodrama.... NOTHING

This amount of melodrama is unhealthy for the world... heck, even a spoonful is more than enough!

[Falcom Director of Fanservice]

Could be worse. Could be eighties Sci-Fi.