THOSE BAKA (unsavory?) GAIJINS

[ausdoerrt]

It's like the difference between reading a work of literature told in the classic third-person narrative style, and reading a work of literature randomly told in a SECOND-person narrative style.

Yeah, but games aren't books and this is one of the experiences only games can offer. Otherwise, reading a book is a much better bet since there's a lot more well-written literature than there's well-written games.

I can think of Fable (WRPG)

Fable, pfft. Maybe if it wasn't so flat-out B&W. You pretty much get no choices other than "I'm a saint" and "I eat babies" for any given problem. It's a dumbed down console RPG try to do something that's been done before, and a lot better.

[Red Hairdo]

Jan 19, 2010 20:18:51 GMT -5 ausdoerrt said:

Fable, pfft. Maybe if it wasn't so flat-out B&W. You pretty much get no choices other than "I'm a saint" and "I eat babies" for any given problem. It's a dumbed down console RPG try to do something that's been done before, and a lot better.

Well, I don't disagree. xD But it's the first example that popped up in my mind.
There's a WRPG for ya. xD

[darkbulb]

Jan 19, 2010 20:18:51 GMT -5 ausdoerrt said:

Fable, pfft. Maybe if it wasn't so flat-out B&W. You pretty much get no choices other than "I'm a saint" and "I eat babies" for any given problem. It's a dumbed down console RPG try to do something that's been done before, and a lot better.

I liked Fable a lot and had a great time playing it. I see a lot of potential (and well executed concept) in that game (Fable TLC).

I like to 'pride' myself on being able to like a diverse range of RPGs.

I come from a background of MUDs (on a VAX), Zork/Colossal Cave, Infocom, S Adams adventures, wrote my own adventures on a Sinclair Spectrum 16 and 48K (the tape-drive was the 'hard-drive), co-authored an adventure-zine in the late 80's, appeared in a documentary a few years ago (yeah, huge geek), etc.

"Changing over" to more graphical/action RPGs/Adventure games was an interesting transition for me but these days I have a great time doing it

[ausdoerrt]

Well, Fable is one of those fairly dumbed down console RPGs. What wyrdy would call a "popcorn flicks" among games.

Also, the one thing I like best in RPGs is something neither books nor movies can ever duplicate - not without getting boring, anyway - and that's PURE WORLD DEVELOPMENT.

Then you obviously haven't read much good fiction. Some good writers do with words what no movie or game could hope to achieve with images. Tolstoy for classical literature, Tolkien for Fantasy, Lem for sci-fi are just a few examples.

So yeah... movies and books are nice, but they're not the same. It's one thing to READ about another culture... but it's another entirely to actually BE there.

Let me sing you the imagination song No, really, I see no excuse for favouring simpler games as a side-effect of a lazy mind. Also, again, good writing can draw you in as much if not more than shiny images. Look for example at Oblivion - the GFX are extremely shiny, but the laughable writing and poor game design actually gets in the way of "immersion". "Popcorn flicks" are certainly fine, but they are not "great games" by any stretch of imagination. Just like most recent Hollywood flicks aren't "great movies" in the same way.

And when I play games, I can appreciate the more artistic ones that exist, and enjoy them for what they are... but I certainly don't DEMAND that, and I'd be bored out of my skull if that's all that existed. I need some good mindless fun and escapism every now and again! Masterpieces alone won't cut it, for me.

But the more intricate game and story designs provide you with better opportunities for escapism. It's not like I'm advocating artistism and good writing for their own sake, but because they make gaming experience a lot more involving.


All I was saying is, games should seek to try the boundaries of the medium, not sit comfortably between B-rated movies and dime novels. There are things that only games can do, and that's what should be pursued. A non-linear adventure written by the player is one of those exclusive things. And it also certainly does not preclude other forms of immersion that you mentioned in your post, wyrd. For example, some of the most "lively" in-game cities I have seen were a product of a non-linear environment, because every citizen could as well turn out to be the turning point on your quest for something. It's nice when the gaming process actually encourages you to explore not just for the sake of exploring.

[Disgaeamad]

The thing that irks me is that most people who complain about JRPGs don't realise how incredibly hypocritical they are. Sure, people have different tastes, but bashing a game and then hyping up another which essentially has the same flaws has become so common these days that it makes me sick.

[ausdoerrt]

Well, I only get to ply whatever's available for PC, so it's not my fault JRPGs get poor PC treatment Blame the Japs.

So yes, I agree that games should strive to do what books and movies cannot... but sometimes, all that requires is allowing the player freedom of movement. As long as you have that, you're ALREADY doing something books and movies can't... and for me, that's more than enough. Really, that's all I want. Once you give me more freedom than that, you're doing so at the expense of narrative and characterization, and that's where I draw the line.

Well, I call that lazy game design, for several reasons. For one, there's no need to stop at just that, especially if designers can and have gone further. This laziness is part of the reason the genre (and the gaming industry as a whole) has been pretty stagnant recently. Secondly, there's no need to give freedom at the expense of storytelling and visa versa. One just needs to break away a bit from the traditional storytelling techniques to make it work. Once again, it has been done before.

[Incog Neato]

ausdoerrt is reminding me a bit of The Captain! XD wyrd has found a new nemesis of sorts!

Anyway, I'm not reading that list since it's so silly to whine about Japanese RPGs when the target audience of those games isn't even the people in the Western side of the world. >_>

[Incog Neato]

Jan 22, 2010 5:39:43 GMT -5 ausdoerrt said:

Blame the Japs.

Is Jap not still considered a derogatory term? :/ I know it's used all over in the gaming community but still. :((((

[AllenSmithee]

Yeah, I always get mad when people say that, personally. I'm not Japanese (duh), but it is only saying like half the name, and it has been used that way.

Although, my half-French half-Japanese friend from elementary school, Kazuto, we used to laugh our asses off whenever we'd push him around and call him "half-Jap", especially for supply teachers. They'd think they were teaching a bunch of racists! xD

[HJ]

I don't think it actually matters unless you use it with malicious intent, but regardless I still don't use it because I know some people get offended, and writing "Japanese" out is easier than getting into a huge debate about it.

[sushi]

Yep, context is everything.

[Incog Neato]

Jan 22, 2010 14:20:31 GMT -5 sushi said:

Yep, context is everything.

The dictionary seems to think otherwise.

Someone should try and change the default abbreviation of JP to JAP on Wikipedia for game release dates. I'm sure it'll stir up a drama bomb. :E