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Post by HJ on Jan 18, 2010 17:52:37 GMT -5
Just kidding. But Japan did strike back against a "10 ways to improve JRPGs list" IGN made recently. kotaku.com/5450647/japans-2ch-replies-to-rpg-complaintsThoughts? I find the IGN list rather ridiculous, really. It's basically just some dude's extremely biased opinion saying "JRPGs suck, Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the best games ever".
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Post by Varion on Jan 18, 2010 18:38:18 GMT -5
I think IGN needs to shut up.
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Post by ShinGundam on Jan 18, 2010 18:44:12 GMT -5
"Show me an American-made RPG that satisfactorily addresses all of these complaints." I lol'd. overall , I like WRPGs but why people think Bethesda and Bioware RPGs as the standard or ideal for RPGs . I think Edios has made far far superior RPGs than what Bethesda and Bioware are making now
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jan 18, 2010 19:27:56 GMT -5
Their responses made me laugh; because they're brutally honest and I'd have to say that I agree with them generally. The last thing I think of when I think of WRPGs is Secret of Evermore. *shudders* Of course, there is also Fable, Fable II, and I guess Brutal Legend counts -- but they don't really count, do they? I mean, Brutal Legend was the only really good one and it could hardly be considered an RPG; more like an action game with a world map and various elements of hide-and-seek, all combined with an RTS -- a third-person RTS, at that! I don't DISLIKE Fable or Fable II, I just don't believe they're truly hype-worthy like many JRPGs have been.
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Post by Varion on Jan 18, 2010 19:32:48 GMT -5
In all seriousness it's pretty much a matter of personal taste. Western-made RPGs are usually more open, have lots more choices, and more of an emphasis on making your own character, whereas Japanese-made ones are more about the story and characters and much more linear. Personally I prefer the latter by miles, but the former is not without its merits too. It's just generally not for me.
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Post by schlagwerk on Jan 18, 2010 19:38:23 GMT -5
In all seriousness it's pretty much a matter of personal taste. /signed
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Post by HJ on Jan 18, 2010 19:40:17 GMT -5
Exactly, which is why making a list like this and passing it off as something like "this is what JRPGs need to stop sucking and become amazing like Oblivion and Fallout 3" is horribly elitist and stupid.
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Post by schlagwerk on Jan 18, 2010 20:08:38 GMT -5
horribly elitist and stupid. That and lol at anyone telling the Japanese to cater more to anyone outside of Japan.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jan 18, 2010 21:44:24 GMT -5
I prefer the latter as well. Gameplay is also a must; I don't want some lackluster ARPG engine with a lackluster story, and miles of choices; I want an ENJOYABLE ARPG engine with an ENJOYABLE story, choices are only a bonus!
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jan 18, 2010 21:58:24 GMT -5
IGN is and always was a synonym for LOL.
ign
xD
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Post by Ashurei on Jan 18, 2010 22:22:16 GMT -5
I need to start using those interchangeably.
Can we pronounce IGN like how people say lawl? Or lulz? "That list was iggins!"
Seriously though, IGNs @ the original list. I enjoyed the fps reply the most.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jan 18, 2010 23:28:48 GMT -5
That FPS reply was what REALLY got me to laugh though, just because of how TRUE it is!! XD Our shooters are so mediocre, that they can't even qualify as third-rate -- and even if they could, why would we brag about something like that? Oh yeah, except for Metroid Prime, though, that series is actually decent! I can't wait for Other M, though... Metroid Gaiden!!! O .o
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Post by ausdoerrt on Jan 19, 2010 7:39:31 GMT -5
I lol'd. overall , I like WRPGs but why people think Bethesda and Bioware RPGs as the standard or ideal for RPGs . I think Edios has made far far superior RPGs than what Bethesda and Bioware are making now Eidos makes RPGs? Oh wait, yes they did make one good one. Still, I've never thought of them as an RPG company. Classic WRPG = Black Isle ==> Troika. Fallout, Planescape, Icewind Dale, Arcanum, Vampire: Bloodlines, Temple of Elemental Evil. Need I say more? "Oblivion and Fallout fanatics are exponentially more annoying than any Final Fantasy fanatic." FAIL for even grouping the two together. I pretty much lost any respect for Kotaku I may have had. "Hey foreigners: we find your first-person shooters boring as shit. What do you say to that?" Oh, that's probably why there's so many Asians among top FPS championship players. "When I see all the 'sniping' and corpse-desecrating 'teabagging' going on in US games, the thought of what what foreigners do when they get mad [in real life] freaks me out." The Japanese like tentacles. "Do foreign companies even make RPGs anymore?" Rarely, mostly indie. But neither do the Japanese. In fact, they never made a single RPG. Basically, the post is a bunch of bullshit. So was the post it's replying to. The guy looks like an idiot for caring to reply.
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Post by ausdoerrt on Jan 19, 2010 8:15:55 GMT -5
Most "Japanese aesthetics" in games isn't gritty enough for me. It comes out occasionally in certain seinen anime or in classic movies, but not in the happy-go-lucky general audience products. Most WRPGs, on the other hand, are geared towards a more mature audience which I feel like I belong to. It's a "target audience" issue. Then why do you hate DnD? It's pretty much the most detailed and well though-out turn-based combat mechanism ever created. That, and Magic. Also, how come you seem to imply that there's no turn-based WRPGs? //////// Take back what I said about the Kotaku blog though. Wasn't really following it. But still, now that I know who the argument's between, I laugh even more. Because we all know how intelligent and respectable and unbiased the people on both IGN forums and on all the chans tend to be I love JRPGs. Otherwise, I wouldn't be on this board. I just love them for completely different reasons that you do
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Post by ausdoerrt on Jan 19, 2010 8:42:13 GMT -5
And you also say you like TB. You contradict yourself, sir. TB can never be faster than RT. Let's see. FFVII on average ~50 hrs. FFVIII, I'd say about 60-70, same for FFIX. Anywhere from 90 and up if you want full completion. Classic WRPGs take on average 15-40 hrs to complete, up to 60 with full completion (ARPGs with lotsa grinding excluded). Hmmmmmm.... I'd like to once again remind you where TB battles in RPG and TBS came from. DnD and Magic. JRPG "TB" is like Magic but with lots less complex timing (except Eien no Aselia). The REAL TB in J-games exists only in so called "strategy RPG" like tactics, but sadly those games lack in every other respect, usually. And yes, TB tends to drag on. That's sort of the point though.
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Post by ausdoerrt on Jan 19, 2010 9:22:08 GMT -5
The point is still, though, that no TB can be as fast as RT, no matter how fast it seems. And some FF boss battles drag on for hours, still. I prefer to call that "philosophical contemplation". Because it's boring if you know your nemesis and how to defeat him from day one. I'd take a well-written story over random plot twists anytime. I don't like Code Geass The imho best RPGs allow you to "find yourself" and may not even have a "villain". Of course that takes a bit contemplation and exploring the world to answer "meaning of life" questions.
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Post by ShinGundam on Jan 19, 2010 10:14:26 GMT -5
Nope , you missed my point Sounds good on paper Can you give me an example of "find yourself" and "meaning of life" because it sounds like theory to me rather than enjoyable game ):
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Post by ausdoerrt on Jan 19, 2010 11:59:48 GMT -5
Nope , you missed my point If the point was that Beth and BW suck then I very much got it. Well, many try, not all succeed. I would once again point to Planescape: Torment as the best execution of that formula. "What can change the nature of a man?" Arcanum is also up there, but to a lesser extent. @wyrd: Haven't tried "shadow of destiny". FF7 doesn' fall into the same category, because it's NOT about you finding yourself. It's about a story of some random guy trying to develop HIS character, and you basically just sit back and watch, i.e. the game plays you (In Soviet Russia... ) I am, once again, talking about the games where you actually have a real impact on who the chara turns out to be in the end.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jan 19, 2010 12:54:08 GMT -5
Sounds good on paper Can you give me an example of "find yourself" and "meaning of life" because it sounds like theory to me rather than enjoyable game ): I can think of Fable (WRPG) and Ys Online (Korean RPG). ign xD (And Demon's Souls (JRPG) up to an extent too, no? ign xD That makes IGN's case even more lost. xDDDDD So ridiculous.) But, yeah, I think most western games (doesn't even have to be within the many RPG genres) tend to suck really hard. I DID like some, though (Realmz for example), but that's pretty much the general rule.
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Post by tancients on Jan 19, 2010 13:12:10 GMT -5
I always thought that list was by Bioware....
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