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Post by regalsin on Oct 5, 2010 13:09:07 GMT -5
You know what I say, and have been saying all this time. they gambled to see which system would get Ys V. They wanted it to be on the PCE, but there was the SNES to consider. I could only guess the SNES sales was more dew to children being addicted to turn-based RPG games ( like we all were at one point ) along with Sqauresoft picking up the crowd. The PCE while being the ultimate thing on the face of the planet since the Famicom, was DEDICATED TO REAL PLAYERS, adults, or people who actually knew what the hell PC Engine meant at the time. This is why they ended the series on the PCE, and continued it on the SNES. They figured, we want sale, we want consumers. Also this is 1993 folks, and by this time, the PSX, and Saturn was out in Stores. 3D development was becoming wide spread. While that has nothing do with any of this. The SNES had the kiddie crowd, who would then group up to be the gamers of tommorow. Think about it. the question we are really asking each other is. If we all owned, and played the original Ys games, on each of the original releases. Would it matter which edition was released next? The problem with Ys 4 is that it was released on two different systems, giving two differnt storylines. Two differnt expriences for the same consumers. So people argue. Which one do I follow and which one do I respect. Then flash foward into the future. Falcom re-released all of the games. Edited the games on purpose ( yet again ). So people are saying which do I follow? I see it like this. You own the originals you know they are the games. You own a port then you know it has been "enhanced" for commercial standards. You can only get what is recent then it should not really matter. So there is like three consumers here. The 4-bit people The 16-bit people The 256-bit people Then the problem with the PCE was that. The PCE game was compared to watching an animation, reading a comic book, or even playing the arcade machine. It was made for the hardcore players. Not the Nintopians. Nintendo target children who wish that there stuff was all that and a bag of chips. for children who likes to pretend. To us outsiders, we said " oh look there goes those ausomoe japanese, with uneidted this and that. BACK WHEN WE ONLY HAD ACCESS TO FANSUBS ON VIDEOTAPES. BACK DURING THE GRACEFULL AGE OF THE EARLY 1990's, late 1980's. So that is the reality. Then comes along CAPCOM who decided to release Resident Evil, leaving all the PSX fans saying "Where is my darn sarnit RE4 port. This is exactly what Falcom did. They released the games knowing full well the original games was already updated for the PCE, and ported to the famicom systems, along with the Saturn. They did it sooooooooooooooooo mannnyyy timees. Leaving us fans divided. I am going to say this. The PCE is the best thing on the face of this planet. Everybody knows it. Before I said the Amiga was the grace of gods, then even the SNES, Genesis, Saturn, and GCN. I am a videogame consumer who is tired of all the games of sarades. I played crap all my life with Nintendo products. I moved to Saturn with my love of 3D. I tried to defend the SFC. But then I found out about PCE engine. I even got into Amiga/MSX/PCXX a little bit. Flat fact, as a consumer of videogames/players/ gamers/ impluse buyers. We keep getting addicted to what is number one. Since that is all we have in our faces. However when you think about Challenge about what matters more. I love comic books, and I say Dawn of Ys pretty much mopped the floor with the Mask Of the Sun. The game is barely playable after playing the PC Engine game. It is like playing Far East of Eden on the Saturn, and then discovering how wonderful the game is on the PC Engine. However with Y'4 it is the complete opposite feeling. Feels great, on the PCE but then bleh on the SNES. Then you relize the SNES game has the same tunes but god auwful pugly sounds. If that was not worst, I practically dodged past like five differnt areas without seeing barely any event at all. The same could be said for Dracula X on the SNES This is what is wrong with the SNES. I am out
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Post by FM-77AV on Oct 6, 2010 12:17:28 GMT -5
The events that occurred in Ys IV The Dawn of Ys never happened, just like nothing in any Ys game has ever happened. It's all fiction. If you don't want to play a game which "never happened", then I guess you cannot play any game? The avatar artwork comes from the Ys IV DOY anime promotion. Hudson and Tokyo shoseki bought the license for Ys IV, and Falcom handed them their finished script for the game. Falcom themselves were busy working on their own version of the game, for X68000 or PC-9800. This is not guaranteed, but extremely likely, since those were the only platforms Falcom were working on at that time. Plus, there's the two Ys IV soundtrack CDs with X68000 music (which included several, for console, unused songs). Sega Falcom (which was basically Falcom) were also working on a Sega Mega-CD port. OF MOTS. The crew at Hudson did not like the script, and was fooling around with it, mixing things around (it seems they were a crazy crowd, having silly fun with it). Falcom had no involvement in this shenanigans. I've read this in an interview from some magazine. I'll try to find it after this. Tokyo shoseki did not modify the script. They made the game after Falcom's plans. There's tons of evidence on this on the japanese internet (of doom). Falcom dumped the project entirely, for some reason. Likely it was because some of their platforms of choice (Mega-CD, X68000) were kinda going poorly around this time (Mega-CD in particular!). Or maybe it was just because they were working on A LOT of games by this time - and there were already two Ys IV games on the market. Making another one would be a waste of effort and time. And nobody would buy it. Why all artwork is from DOY? Because Hudson was a very serious company at that time, and put a lot of promotion into it. They hired artists and musicians to do artwork and music for it. Released soundtrack CDs, artbooks. It got way more exposure than MOTS. They even financed an anime but that failed, obviously. Its not surprising that it may have seemed like the canon game at the time. But it wasn't. And it never will be. Falcom doesn't even have the rights for this butchered scenario, so they cannot use it, even if they wanted to. Tokyo shoseki didn't put much effort into the whole thing. They made the game exactly according to the script, with a very lackluster presentation, did not make any outside material for it (artwork, etc). They just made a bare bones product. Just like they did with Ys III. PS: Ys III for Mega Drive sold really well. Better than all the other console ports. I guess that is why Falcom chose that platform for Ys IV. With that said, all I can add is... Ys IV rules! (Both of them. Yes - I said both, because there are only two Ys IV games.)
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Post by Ranzor on Oct 6, 2010 14:45:57 GMT -5
Now, that's a guy who knows his stuff! Great post, never knew a lot of this stuff. Such a shame the Mega-CD version was never made. It probably would've been awesomeness embodied.
Great to hear from you, o Board Master. You should visit more often.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 6, 2010 16:51:25 GMT -5
First of all: spam The rest: The events that occurred in Ys IV The Dawn of Ys never happened, just like nothing in any Ys game has ever happened. It's all fiction. If you don't want to play a game which "never happened", then I guess you cannot play any game? xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD So true. XD Plus, there's the two Ys IV soundtrack CDs with X68000 music (which included several, for console, unused songs). What were the names of those 2 CDs? Awesomeness. I do recall Ys IV SFC had unused music in its memory, though, from Deuce's old site. Sega Falcom (which was basically Falcom) were also working on a Sega Mega-CD port. OF MOTS. Oh! I had no idea (or totally forgot) it was of Mask of the Sun! The crew at Hudson did not like the script, and was fooling around with it, mixing things around (it seems they were a crazy crowd, having silly fun with it). Falcom had no involvement in this shenanigans. I've read this in an interview from some magazine. I'll try to find it after this. I recall when you talked about this years ago on MSN. xD Tokyo shoseki did not modify the script. They made the game after Falcom's plans. There's tons of evidence on this on the japanese Internet (of doom). This is interesting. xD This means the contradictory bit(s?) in Ys IV SFC was a mistake of Falcom's themselves. xD It's not surprising that it may have seemed like the canon game at the time. But it wasn't. And it never will be. Falcom doesn't even have the rights for this butchered scenario, so they cannot use it, even if they wanted to. That would explain a lot. xD Also, for some reason, it never crossed my mind that perhaps Falcom isn't even allowed to use plot elements present in Ys IV PCE, as obvious as that should have been. xD That's too bad... because I'd have liked plot elements from it in an Ys IV remake made by Falcom at some point. =s The Truthâ„¢.
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Post by HJ on Oct 6, 2010 17:08:32 GMT -5
The events that occurred in Ys IV The Dawn of Ys never happened, just like nothing in any Ys game has ever happened. It's all fiction. If you don't want to play a game which "never happened", then I guess you cannot play any game? True indeed. But then, it's a good thing that's not what I said.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 6, 2010 20:57:56 GMT -5
It's always good to remedy misinformation. xD I'm a bit to blame, myself, for not knowing all the details. Also, thanks for the names of those discs. I had NO idea Falcom snuck in an Ys IV music album in one of those Falcom Special Boxes! (Nor that they already did Drama CDs ever since the last decade. ) Hmmmmmm... "unused Ys IV music that would supposedly be for either PC-9801 or X68000, because of the type of the synth". But... couldn't that be the unused chip tunes from The Dawn of Ys instead? The PCEngine could make sounds that were almost identical to the ones heard in PC-8801/9801 games, since they all are NEC's... Maybe I should listen to them first and talk only later. xD
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Post by sushi on Oct 7, 2010 3:56:22 GMT -5
Hmmmmmm... "unused Ys IV music that would supposedly be for either PC-9801 or X68000, because of the type of the synth". But... couldn't that be the unused chip tunes from The Dawn of Ys instead? The PCEngine could make sounds that were almost identical to the ones heard in PC-8801/9801 games, since they all are NEC's... Maybe I should listen to them first and talk only later. xD The theory I subscribe to is that those X68000 tunes, coupled with the unused ones, were the "source materials" given to Hudson and Tonkin by Falcom. Correct me if you can!
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Post by regalsin on Oct 7, 2010 15:00:38 GMT -5
The flat fact is, between the SFC and PCE. The Nintendo was and will always be a kids best friend next to the pedo-bear. The PC-engine will always be a gods gift to face of mankind.
We all know the horror that comes with being a Nintendo consumer. We never get any cool games, we are always left with a 3rd party release of something. Only at the beginning or the end, we actually get to play something fun. That is the flatfact. About Japan?
Well it was sorta the same thing. Their games were dumbed down, for younger viewers. In general, Nintendo was the most biggest commercial effort.Why mention this?
Ys4 on the SFC sucks. I don't know how anybody plays this game after playing DOY. I really doubt the PCE game was failure. Y's on the PC engine was grand. So what if Hudson Soft took out a license to port the bloody games. THE PC ENGINE IS THE MOST PLAYABLE PORT IN COMPARISON TO THE ORIGINAL GAMES.
Hudson had a right to do what they needed to do. Hudson started the whole console rage. Hudson even had to sink it's claws into Konami who wanted to take the so called greatest Castlevania , and port it to another system. Falcom just wanted to be like the rest of the fishes. Hudson Soft had to do what it needed to do.
The PC Engine being the greatest gift to mankind. It had everything anybody who lusts after 2d games could ever want.
Your point is basically saying, hey that since Falcom remade such and such games. We all should ignore Hudson.
Yes it is fiction but really, who here on this forum who actually enjoyed MOTS over DOY please cast the first sun. I highy doubt between the two people.
Cast the first stone, person who could openly say that we should look upon MOS above DOY. While they both are fiction. Look at Zelda.
After the N64 OOT game, all Zelda games was complete fakes. Why? Well in Ys4 Adols wife reading from a book. Meaning that all of Adol adventures is being read from her book at home. Adol's diary.
Zelda GBC = trys to make all the past Zelda games make link look like a kid. Zelda N64 2 = remake 3d of the GBC game, with extra this and that. Zelda GCN = trying to erase the past Zelda Zelda GCN II = since the last game failed, they just released this game. Oh and link get married. Zelda NDS = more adventures of fake Link II.
Why is all of these Zelda games fake? Well the original Zelda N64 game seems to make Link Age into when he would hold the master sword. Instead We got fake. That makes sense for the original Zelda game, into the original GB game. However, not for the GBC, gCN games. To make things worst, they even tried to make more adventures of young link.
Why mention this? Well Y's makes more sense then a game on the SFC. That is why? Why do we need to go beyond Y's to see more adventures of Adol? Therefore Y's four was the real ending. At least in my eyes.
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Post by HJ on Oct 7, 2010 15:11:27 GMT -5
Dude, what the hell? Seriously... you're making my head spin with all this nonsense.
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Post by yotaka on Oct 7, 2010 15:22:29 GMT -5
Shh, just leave him alone and let's let us adults talk. He's clearly Immune to Logic anyways.
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Post by Peytral on Oct 7, 2010 15:24:13 GMT -5
Successful troll is successful?
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Post by Peytral on Oct 7, 2010 21:25:53 GMT -5
imo he shud be band for mispelng Ys n teh subejct titl
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Post by Raison D'etritus on Oct 7, 2010 23:22:21 GMT -5
Wyrd that last post was kind of ironic considering all the opinion bashing earlier in this thread. . . but I gotta say, this is one DAMN AMUSING thread! Never thought I'd see 'loose-canons' gang up on a dogmatist. Kind of historically ironic. Personally I agree that a game should stand on its own merits, but I can also understand a dogmatists adherence to canon. Just TRY convincing a Roman Catholic that gnostic apocrypha should be read becuase it's superior in style to Christian dogma--they will tell you quite clearly that it DOESN'T EXIST before they nail you to a stake and bring out the torhes.
But this brings me to my submission for the ALoY spawned fangame: "Ys Apocryphal: The True Story of Adol The Crimson"
(Yes, I do realize this idea will likely see me banned at the stake... or, for regalsin's benefit, baned at the steak) The "true story" (suppressed story) of Adol Christin, upon which the legends are based, featuring a quite anti-heroic protagonist. Naturally, he'd have dark hair, as "Adol the Red" is a misinterpretation by linguists from "Adol the Crimson" which he was dubbed, in truth, because he was so oft splattered with blood. Rather than a silent protagonist, he was quite a braggart, which is where all the tall-tales spawned from.
Opposed to the content of his wanton boasting, his large stupid friend likely did most of the work acutually killing things, and Adol just took the credit. I see a dynamic much like that in "Of Pikkards and Men". Dogi likely broke him from prison just as often, but I see guard slaying as more likely than wall crushing. The Ancient Language of Ys could very well have used a homonym for "wall" and "guard," thus the mistranslation.
Also, I think historians could well dispute the validity of someone making a living as an "adventurer." Monsterologists insist that if that many dangerous beasts prowled the wilds there would be no remaining civilizations, and economists insist that no man could survive off money robbed from monsters, as they and monsterologists agree that monsters had absolutely no need for currency (or for that matter, an understanding of how to use it). Most likely, Adol and Dogi were brigands, and where the histories have them mercilessly slaughtering wildlife between towns, they were most likely preying upon travelers.
I see a lot of potential in such a Grand Theft Adol concept, and would LOVE to see it brought to fruition!
*exits stage left by means of giant cane*
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Post by Incog Neato on Oct 8, 2010 1:50:24 GMT -5
(┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻ (┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻(┛◉Д◉)┛彡┻━┻[/i][/quote] GodDAMN, I still love this emoticon. And man, what is up with this thread? SO. MUCH. RAGE. ^^;;;;;;;
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Post by yotaka on Oct 8, 2010 2:17:22 GMT -5
(Yes, I do realize this idea will likely see me banned at the stake Naaah, you have to say something really offensive to get banned... as the continuing existence of regalsin would appear to indicate. Ahh, I see. So what's the true story of Ys V then, seeing that Adol's infinitely superior companion was the one who did all the heavy lifting. Wait, I think I've got it. If Adol and Dogi are bandits and Dogi's not around, Adol would naturally look for some other bandits to hang out with and claim credit for. So... Terra did all the real work in V and is the one we should be thanking. Excellent! Given my favorable opinion on Terra compared to most other ALoYers, I suspect I'll be hopping on the pyre with you. Perfectly sensible so far, but what about the ladies? They feature quite prominently in Adol's tales; what's the truth behind them? I'd help but my only game programming experience worthy of note consists of ZZT.
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Post by Incog Neato on Oct 8, 2010 4:15:50 GMT -5
Turing.
Visual Basic.
Those were ones that I got to "learn". (Re: Don't remember anything.)
Not really game programming but you can make dinky games with them!!!
And d00des, I just made the mistake of reading regalsin's post up there. Jesus Christ, I think that's long write-up is the epitome of trying to pass off opinion as fact. X____________x
Seriously, canon is canon. There's nothing to argue about. 9__9 Not accepting games in a series due to their graphics and/or gameplay is kind of goofy, IMO.
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Post by schlagwerk on Oct 8, 2010 11:49:27 GMT -5
You know, in my version of the Ys storyline, there's a lot more H scenes
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Post by Raison D'etritus on Oct 8, 2010 12:03:05 GMT -5
As there would be in Ys Apocryphal, as we can only assume that Bandit Adol would be far, ummm. . . kinder. . . to his many lady friends. If he really had red hair, there would probably be far more red heads running around.
Unless of course he always leaves the women behind without any. . . fond(ling) farewells because he already has a boon companion in Dogi. . . or should I say "bosom buddy."
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 8, 2010 12:32:11 GMT -5
Actually, in my opinion, you all (HJ, yotaka, Peytral, Wyrdwad, raisondetritus and nunuu) are being offensive to someone who has not been offensive to any of you, or anyone here.
To me, regalsin just stated his opinion, and he was NOT trying to impose (as in, "to force") it on others. He said what's on his mind, and that's it. He didn't use any offensive word nor anything. "At least in my eyes." was his last line, even. And we all know he DOES have trouble trying to word things.
It's true that all that he stated isn't relevant to the current subject of this topic, which is about whether certain games are canonical or not etc. (not saying it was offtopic: it was ONtopic, but just had no relevancy) and that he's quite mistaken about many things, but so what? Just say "Well, any of that doesn't determine what story in canonical or not." or something. Instead, you all are flaming him and making him sound guilty of what YOU are doing.
I mean, you can protest against his opinion, or even against what he wrote. But most of you are being hypocrites.
Also, Wyrd, I didn't find his manner of speech offensive, personally. He didn't state anyone's opinion was wrong anywhere, either. But you replied to him in a manner that, to me, WAS offensive... or just waaaaaay needlessly harsh. I also think regalsin is QUITE FAR from being anything like megalink, who was just... >_>.
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Post by HJ on Oct 8, 2010 12:57:07 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure a sentence like "We all know that *insert regalsin's opinion here*" counts as forcing his opinion on other people as fact. Also, it's not untrue that what he wrote was nonsense. If you consider what we're doing to be offensive, though, then he's been offensive as well. Calling the 3DS garbage because he has a hard-on for 2D (especially the PCE), saying Capcom should have released Mega Man Legends 3 on the Dreamcast or Saturn (lol) and essentially saying anyone who buys it on the 3DS is a "happy go lucky fanboy" can easily be classified as trolling, then. And I'm being lenient right now by not mentioning his escapades in the chat, among other things.
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