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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 23, 2009 22:50:59 GMT -5
I'm curious to see these load times in action. Are you using a PSP-1000, or a newer model? Because the newer models have UMD caching, which cuts down on load times pretty significantly when it's enabled. Most likely, Ys I & II Chronicles was designed to be played with UMD caching enabled, since almost every modern PSP game is... so that may have skewed your results a little. I was surprised, though, by the longer-than-expected load times in Zwei!!, so maybe I'll be surprised by Ys I & II Chronicles, too. As for the load times, a friend who imported it was using his PSP-2000. The load times were there, like in the PS2 version, but also like it, it didn't seem to be bothersome. But of course, the cache memory certainly helped a lot. And like I said, I do think they may be slightly shorter. (As for myself, I have experienced zero loading times since I downloaded it and played it with CFW. To try it out. And I know I would never spend a cent in this game: as I have said in the Spam thread, I won't ever touch this game ever, ever again, and I know such destiny won't be the same for every Ys I/II remake there is, especially the PS2 version. And I had to force myself to play through it: I already knew the whole of it, so... I would just rather play COMPLETE, which is better. The only motivation was the music. If I had bought it, I would have thrown it away or given it to someone who would care. But if the OST was sold separately... that's something else!) Pretty sure I'm not remembering wrong with Ys I & II Eternal Story, however. Maybe you just got used to the load times on your multiple playthroughs, as I EVENTUALLY did on my single playthrough (it didn't bother me at all by the end, but that doesn't mean the load times aren't there - it just means I got used to them!). Yes, there's no doubt I got more used to the loading times. Well, I never said they weren't there, I just said they weren't bothersome. At first, they could have been long enough for me to notice... they are there. But a while after though, it's so normal. I never felt annoyed by it. (Unless if you try checking the character database in Ys II. xD That's the only example I can think of.) ... Well, from the way you put it, I get the impression you just mind load times a lot more than I do. xD ... Oh! MP83 just tested the load times in the PS2 version! (We be using telepathy aka MSN ) "Moving from screen to screen usually takes 3 seconds (sometimes 5-6, but it's rare)" "When you create the save file, it takes 23 seconds" (instead of a minute, as I previously wild-guessed) "That's because the save file is big: 1MB" "From the moment the TV screen goes black after inserting the game disc into the PS2, it takes 17 seconds to get to the title screen. That time didn't feel abnormal for a PS2 game." That's his report about it. You make some great points about the features in the PS2 version, Reddy. But I actually take a little offense at calling Falcom lazy. Just so you know, DigiCube was owned and created by Squaresoft, so they had all the money in the world to do stuff like that. Falcom is nowhere near that level of money-squandering. Compared to DigiCube, Falcom is a drop in the bucket. Not to mention that DigiCube may have had some sort of copyright on the new features/arrangements/modes/artwork they added, and Square would still own those copyrights. Or maybe Falcom thought it detracted from the original experience (silly, but that happens.) And like I mentioned earlier, whether one likes the music or not, Falcom clearly spent what time and money they did have on the remade music. Like I said, performing LIVE music with REAL people is hundreds of times harder and more costly than MIDI (which is essentially free - and sounds like it.) The amount of work renting a studio and mastering the music and recording the 5-6 people that performed on the double-game-spanning OST easily takes as much effort as the features you mentioned in Eternal Story, which was, when boiled down to it, some additional code and a few new drawings. It's just what Falcom deemed more important - their priority was with the music. DigiCube did NOT do anything like this - you may love the PS2 OST to pieces, but that doesn't change the fact that it is MIDI - a glorified text file - through and through. I could have done the same job in a week or less. Just something to think about. I think Falcom is the total opposite of lazy. They let us random idiot foreigners order - IN ENGLISH - from a support email address without even using their shopping cart system, and use our foreign credit cards and they go out and ship stuff to us, with goodies and music CDs and calendars, no questions asked. Nowhere have they even advertised that they would be willing to do that - we just assume. Try getting Square or Capcom or Konami of Japan to answer some random punk's email. Hm, well, I see. As for the music department, I totally agree there: I like the PS2 music a lot, but there's no way in hell I can think it's better than the Chronicles OST. Very little Ys I/II music can be better than the Chronicles OST. (Admittedly, though, I wasn't aware that producing Chronicles-quality music could be as expensive as you described.) However, I believe that's the thing: couldn't they have released it in an album? Actually, I partially know myself the answer: marketing. Featuring it in a game is better, since games are more expensive than music CDs and all, so it's understandable. But just as much as it's understandable, if they are going to put it in a game, they could have done some more, I believe. Well, they did include the new artworks, but... only that? =/ I think it's a really bad excuse for a game... Also, I never intended to offend: all I intended to was to criticize Falcom solely regarding Ys I & II Chronicles. We all know Falcom rules. That's common knowledge here! Just look at what Wyrd just told us! Woah! I think I need that in my profile. Can't believe you actually added that. I'm joining too!
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 23, 2009 23:19:09 GMT -5
... Heh. xD
Yes, you are right. xD I was totally spoiled. It's because we have so many Ys I/IIs to compare Chronicles with, and since most of them are kick-ass, our (mine at least) standards become a little too high. xD
Indeed. I do think I was expecting too much. ... *sigh*, well, afterall ports are supposed to be ports, and remakes to be remakes. I think I should see the PS2 version as an exception to the rule, as far as ports go... (well, and Ys VI on PSP/PC)
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Post by Ranzor on Jul 24, 2009 11:25:51 GMT -5
With all this talk of the PS2 version, I decided to try it out and played it a little yesterday. Yeah, the load times are there, but it's not that bothering, really. It felt a little weird playing it on a TV, though. Anyway, I got to Minea Village and went up field, and then the game froze! So, I guess you can call the game buggy.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 24, 2009 12:49:41 GMT -5
This is rare, ranzor. xD Really rare. I think that this game only froze about 3 times in total with me. And bear in mind I have played it for over than 100 hours. xD There were days I played Ys I & II from the beginning until the end in a single day (I was so hyped ), and it didn't freeze even once. I do recall the first time it froze though, and it was around the time I first started playing it and had just created a save file. I didn't even get to Minea, I was still in Port Barbado. I wonder if it has any connection with creating the save file (saving for the first time). Regardlessly, if it freezes, considering how rare it is, you could even consider it a privilege. xD lol adoru: about Zwei!!, well, I never played it on PC. Plus, as fanatic as this may be, I only even gave Zwei!! PSP a try because I thought I heard the game had at least one Ys cameo. Just because of that. So I couldn't care less about Falcom's intentions with Zwei!!, Zwei II or any other non-Ys Falcom game. (But don't get me wrong: I saw that Zwei!! is good. It's just that I don't mind it.) As for the music CD/game thingy regarding Chronicles, well, there's still that point I brought up, that what they did wouldn't be a good-enough excuse for a game. Besides, also because the game doesn't feature a Sound Test of sorts, I really think they will end up releasing the Chronicles ST in a CD as well. If they do, your point will be disproven, I think. Not only that, but they did release that "Chronicles OST Mini" music CD, as well as that "Ys I & II Best Sound Collection" music CD. A game and two separated music CDs, one which has past arrangements, and another with partial Chronicles OST. =/ Sorry, but, I think this all is just tons of cash-in. =/ Of course, if you disagree, I'm listening. However, I must point out that Falcom milking can not be compared with the Square Enix milking. Actually, I don't have to explain, because we all know it. We know Square Enix sucks, as they only either milk stuff or make one of their sub-companies do all the dirty (and crappy no less) work, how they only sell due their popularity etc.. Falcom is gold, SE is poo. I never intended to compare Falcom with any other company: to me, Falcom ranks at top by a very wide margin. Plus, Falcom doesn't only milk, they also do make totally new, impressive etc. games. As we all have been saying, Ys S even funds! Oh, and no doubt Chronicles only hyped everyone for Ys Seven. xD Also: WUT?!?! Well. I highly recommend trying the PS2 version of the game. Eh. Wyrd: ... HYPOCRITE! xD Jk. xD
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 24, 2009 18:11:48 GMT -5
"Pretty buggy" sounds more suitable for a game whose bugs interfere with you gaming experience. As in, you actually get bothered by it. I didn't get bothered. It almost never happened, and whenever it did, I had a good laugh. (By the way, I'm not sure if you already know, but along with MP and the help of many people, I'm detecting and recording all the bugs from all the games in the whole Ys series. I already recorded all this game's bugs... except this one. I wonder if I ever will be able to.) Though, that brings us back to the point we were previously talking: even though Squaresoft was "filthy rich", that doesn't mean its sub-companies were. You guys have said yourselves it went bankrupt. The freezing, despite how rare it is, is a consequence from DigiCube not having the means to fully, perfectly port this game. They didn't have the means, because they chose to make it more than some port, something Falcom didn't. (Not to mention, in the PSP version the framerate is low, and that is ALWAYS present. Not PS2 version's case. Aside the framerate, the game STILL slows down in certain places. Also, i.e. in that floor where you get the Flame Sword in Ys I, in Nightmare, the enemies there look like they are teleporting instead of moving. So even as a port, it's weaker, in that sense.) As for the milking, as I have said, it's understandable. But I think that re-selling their games is... well, I would be ashamed. So I would at least do or put a few things as an excuse for it. Konami did that really well with Ys VI, and so did DigiCube: blatant ports are kind of... shameful, in my opinion. It's OK and nice to support them regardlessly, but if so, then just buy a second copy of COMPLETE. A third copy. You can always support them as much as you want if that's how it goes. Well, at least I hope I could express myself adequately as to why I think this game's release is shameful. The only good thing I see about this port is what you mentioned earlier: one of Falcom's best in your hands wherever you go. Other than that... if it's for the OST, then better wait for its separate release.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 24, 2009 20:55:15 GMT -5
You have a point. xD But that's why I respect them for their choice. And in practicality, the bugs (that weren't in COMPLETE, that is) don't exist anyway. You play it normally.
As for the load times, I don't think it could be helped. And we already said this, but Chronicles itself has them.
I do think I "pumped up" too much the "shame for adding nothing" part. But... well, I understand you when you say what Falcom did was enough. It depends on the point of view, actually. The thing is, for this, we stick with different points of view, so I guess this is as far as our debate can go.
Also, I'm sorry, but did I really say how annoyed and "offended" (as you put it) I was in my previous post? And in the post prior to that one? And in the other one prior to that one? And so on... until page 11 of this thread. Mostly, I was defending the PS2 version, and whenever I mentioned one of Chronicles' bad points, it was to compare with it, instead of expressing my displeasure towards it. Aside that, there was the talk about Chronicles and milking, but I always brought up new points in order not to be redundant. Let me know if I'm mistaken (which I may just be, who knows. Or else I wouldn't ask).
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 24, 2009 21:09:59 GMT -5
On a totally unrelated note, but much more ontopic than the current discussions, here are some more things I observed in Ys I & II Chronicles: - By tilting/pushing the Analog Nub slightly in Ys II, Adol walks. However, in Ys I, he will run no matter what. Strange. - Apparently, you can't get to see what else Tarf is carrying with him once you measure him. I recall reading in Ys II COMPLETE and ETERNAL, you could see he was carrying the bra of some woman from his town. This is also the case for the PS2 version, so I guess it's just censorship. - About this Ys I Chronicles bug I mentioned earlier in Page 3: - There is an annoying bug that only happens if you use the Analog Rub to move Adol (it's also difficult to accurately describe it, but I'll try): If you are between two walls, and very close to them both, and you are going down while keeping the Analog Rub pushed to a down-diagonal direction, once one of the walls isn't on the way anymore, Adol will still keep moving down straightly instead of moving diagonally to the direction you desired. Until you either stop moving him or move him either to one side or backward. This can cause you involuntary deaths as stupid this may sound. This is most noticeable when fighting Dark Fact with the Analog Rub, especially on Nightmare (because the holes also work as walls around you); It's not present in Ys II, which is also very strange. - I'm not actually absolutely sure, but I'm very confident Adol's speed was changed in Ys II Chronicles: he is as fast as he was in Ys I Chronicles. Originally, he was a bit slower in every Ys II remake when compared to his self in the Ys I remakes. Adol's speed in Ys I Chronicles and Ys I remakes seems to be the same, though. - Measuring Tarf in this version is HARD. ' I'm not sure why, but pushing him against that certain wall where the Iron Ore was is nearly impossible. I had to go into the corner with Adol and have Tarf follow him as closely as possible. After that, I used the Teleport Magic to go to Roo's Nest. Then I returned to where I was, and THEN I pushed Tarf against the wall. Again, this is weird.
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fuyuko816
Dinvel
The Yuki that has never seen Yuki.
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Post by fuyuko816 on Jul 25, 2009 7:49:04 GMT -5
I think everyone realized this, but seems like that whole debate is around the reasons behind the game creation by Falcom.
And this kind of discussion is pretty much open to interpretation, just because we don't (and won't) know the true reasons about Ys I & II Chronicles's release. So obviously both of you feels that the other side is overcriticising or overprotecting the company motives, when in fact both aren't.
Also I don't think that this does matter at all, especially when we are waiting for Ys Seven.
P.S.: Chronicles could (1) have some Eternal Story's extra content and (2) with no-loading-times; and everyone would be happeey! xD ew... whatever!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2009 9:30:31 GMT -5
Everytime I make a bowl of cereal and go for the "milk" I think of Falcom... milking the series in a shameful way
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 25, 2009 15:35:01 GMT -5
- By tilting/pushing the Analog Nub slightly in Ys II, Adol walks. However, in Ys I, he will run no matter what. Strange. From someone who doesn't use the analog nub- hold the X button down, and you can walk. This works in Ys I and II. That's true. Besides, the game is actually kind of meant to be played with either 4 or 8 directions of movement. I like using the Analog Nub for walking and carefree fireball spamming, but for battling in general I favor the Pad. Wyrd: I certainly said that a lot, yeah. Though I didn't mean to provoke or taunt anyone, or offend anyone. You know, it's just what I think. (The reason I kept bringing it up often was to further say something related to that thought of mine). Anyway, I will stop now. xD Sorry. And I think we already have talked way too much about this as well. By the way... I think kiyuki settled it all down for us! We just... uh, can't know for certain. Falcom's intentions and decisions.
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Post by Varion on Jul 26, 2009 1:00:10 GMT -5
Everytime I make a bowl of cereal and go for the "milk" I think of Falcom... milking the series in a shameful way
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Post by Incog Neato on Jul 26, 2009 11:14:48 GMT -5
Everytime I make a bowl of cereal and go for the "milk" I think of Falcom... milking the series in a shameful way :P Falcom might as well release it like that! XD! But the milkity milky milk milk reason might be their way of reaching newer generations of players. :O And maybe BECAUSE there's a new Ys game coming out, they feel the need to release the original 2-part story as a primer of sorts to those new players. Of course, no one will know for sure unless they manage to get a hold of the folks that make the decision of releasing games and ask them (while grabbing onto one of them and shaking them (gently)), "WHY DO YOU KEEP RE-RELEASING Ys I & II!? WHY WILL YOU NOT GIVE Ys IV AND V THE SAME AMOUNT OF LOOOOOOOOOOVE??? They are not even bastard children! Pay them some attention!"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2009 11:17:42 GMT -5
Heh, that was a good one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2009 20:24:23 GMT -5
This is a very positive review of the game. So I guess Falcom did do their best to overcome the framrate issue. I cant say I even noticed any load times what-so-ever since i played the game right off the memory stick it was just the framrate that frustrated me a bit. Would have been nice to include unlockables like a juke box player or something. Maybe being able to switch between the old and new artwork on the fly. Maybe even unlocking some interview videos even though I wouldnt understand the language anyway. Maybe trying to balance out the difficulty between Ys I and II like... I found Ys I to be waaaay harder than Ys II on nightmare Maybe even unlocking an Ys Fighting Game like Street Fighter but Ys Fighter after beating both Ys I and II on Nightmare Or an Ys simulation game where you can fly that bird from Ys IV (Roos) around the land of Ys. that would be cool
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 26, 2009 21:33:25 GMT -5
Maybe trying to balance out the difficulty between Ys I and II like... I found Ys I to be waaaay harder than Ys II on nightmare Actually, Ys II has always been a bit easier than Ys I because of the Fireball magic and its upgrades provided my the Hawk and Falcon Idols. And some enemies in Ys I Nightmare move REALLY fast. The game actually wants you to equip the Time Ring, so that their speed are the same as yours, or slightly lower. With the Time Ring on, Adol is never slower. ... Except Ys I PS2's Nightmare! Even Rhebolls are faster than you!! xD You can run away from them... but not for long. xD You have to swing the sword a few times. xD
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Post by sideshow on Jul 26, 2009 21:34:42 GMT -5
I like the idea of on the fly switching between the original artwork to the new style. I know two very recent classic games brought to XBOX360 arcade which do this very well; R-Type Dimensions and Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition. If only Falcom would re release this once again in that fashion. Lets say you can switch between the TG-16 edition to the new Ys Chronicles edition would be sweet.
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Post by ParanoiaDragon on Jul 26, 2009 23:04:11 GMT -5
They were supposed to ship mine out friday, but, I haven't recieved an email from them yet. Maybe I'll get the game, before I get the email?
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 28, 2009 14:43:14 GMT -5
Wow... This will sound like a joke or mockery, but it isn't. To Wyrd or anyone else who might be interested, try doing this: - Play Ys I & II Chronicles for very few minutes; - Now load up an Ys DS or Ys II DS save file and play it for a few minutes. I won't say anything, I just recommend to see it for yourself(ves). It is... very surprising. Note: Also use the Pad, not the stylus.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 28, 2009 18:28:12 GMT -5
- I also highly approve of the track selection for the Ys I & II Chronicles Soundtrack Mini, but I'm a little annoyed that all the tracks from Ys I & II Chronicles that are featured on the Best Sound Collection are ALSO featured on the Soundtrack Mini. I mean, come on, Falcom, you knew the people who received the Soundtrack Mini were ALSO going to be receiving the Best Collection, so why didn't you choose OTHER tracks, instead of repeating yourself like that?! The rehashing/milking/whatever you want to call it for the game itself doesn't bother me, but I'll admit, THAT does. That's just cheezy, Falcom... totally cheezy. (But it's OK! I'll forgive you! You're still tops in my book! Heheheh) lol xDDDD Anyway, to put it simply... the Ys DS games became a lot better after playing the PSP counterparts. xD I didn't like the Ys DSes too much, but I didn't hate them either. But after playing Chronicles... they are the smoothest and most beautiful thing ever. Including the 3D graphics. I reluctantly played them yesterday... And man, was I surprised! When I put this into words, it just sounds something like... "ah,... really? eh..." But to anyone who gets the chance, try doing it.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Jul 28, 2009 19:29:16 GMT -5
... Wow. xD If the original post was supposed to be harsher, then.. I'm better off not seeing it. Though, calm down, I don't mean offense. I'm just saying there's a big contrast... and that seeing it directly is better than describing what I have tried to describe. ' About the playability, I just disagree, but since this is not the Ys DS thread, we won't be talking about it. xD Eitherway, relax. 'o.o
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