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Post by Musa-Revived on Jul 10, 2008 0:04:12 GMT -5
Ichiban, like wyrdwad says, means "#1". "Ichi" means one, while "ban" is a counter for counting. It's used the same as "number". So ichiban means number one, niban means number 2 etc. Mostly used in counting in races and stuff.
Anyway, about the Chinese, I'm of Chinese descent, I speak and write decent Chinese but well, I'm kinda biased against them. And no I'm not Taiwanese.
I don't hate them but well, sometimes they irk me.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jul 10, 2008 0:10:18 GMT -5
Sen... boy, why did I think it was zen? XD That is a pretty complex counting system! "One-hundred ten-thousand" (Hyaku-man)?
Wait wait wait... but if sen-man is "One-thousand ten-thousand", then I think I forgot everything past hachi; that is eight, right? X) Then there's juu or jun -- but I don't remember what it/they are... at any rate, I should check out the "instant immersion" Learn To Speak Japanese CD I've had all this time. Although I recall being flustered because although it teaches words and entire sentences, it doesn't exactly tell you how to connect your words; that, and they congratulate you and tell you that you're wrong with words they don't even bother teaching you; spelling or pronunciation. It's very... "lite". Still, these days I have more patience; maybe I do need to try the bare minimum, give it one more chance.
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Post by Musa-Revived on Jul 10, 2008 0:19:18 GMT -5
Well, you can ask some of us for tips in learning Japanese. The thing about learning numbers in Japanese, you just gotta memorize and that's not enough, you gotta practice counting stuff in Japanese. But that's the same for any language =P.
Funny thing that we're talking about Japanese stuff in a thread about China. Lol.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jul 10, 2008 0:50:02 GMT -5
Heheh, yeah; just ask anyone here, I'm notorious for derailing topics. I like FM's mention of Bamboo Forests though.  I see them alot in the Mystical Ninja games, but I'm certain that their beauty far exceeds virtual scenery. I practice counting in Japanese often, in spite of the fact that I'm currently off by two numbers. (9 and 10, which I'm sure are somewhere in the back of my mind.) Do you also memorize kanji like that aswell? I always wondered if Japan has their own "ABC song" for kids learning kanji/kana/etc.; I'll do anything to learn, even if it means singing along to Japanese children's songs with visuals of the kanji/kana/etc. -- they must have something like that. Wow, that one's a tongue twister.  I've seen a few words like that in the basic grammar book, which cause me to stutter as I read it out loud; my dad compares my reading of the language to an attempt at witchcraft.  |
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Post by Justin on Jul 10, 2008 1:13:55 GMT -5
Were there ninjas or could you at least feel their presence.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jul 10, 2008 1:15:41 GMT -5
Heheh, yeah; there are well over 2,000 kanji (if my memory serves me well) -- I can't imagine doing it all in one sitting. It does make me curious what their methods are in teaching their language and writing to young students. I just had a random thought hit me; do they have overseas scholarship or transfer programs? I'd think (or hope) they'd have Japanese language programs for foreigners, right? What more could a person ask for than to immerse oneself in such an environment and simultaneously learn the proper skills for speech? (Here I go daydreaming again, haha.) |
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Post by Musa-Revived on Jul 10, 2008 4:17:17 GMT -5
You'll have better luck finding out from your local colleges or institutes for exchange programs. It's not far from reality really, just needs some determination and research.
For Kanji, like Chinese, is taught pretty much the same way. Through memorization and constant writing practices. First you learn the individual strokes, then you try to get familiar with the various kanji bases comprising of several strokes, then you form kanji compound characters. That's just the theoretical step by step method.
Easiest way is to learn the correct sequence of strokes for every kanji you learn. And you write the kanji character at least a 100 times a day while memorizing the pronunciation and do that for 300 kanji characters per 2 months or so, coupled with using them in sentences, and voila, in a year or 2, u'd have learnt 2000 kanji characters, more than the average Japanese Joe who actually remembers them.
Of course, for best results, forgo your daily comforts like gaming and stuff for at least a year.
Well, I suppose I have a head start since I know Chinese, and its easy for me to recognize kanji but still almost every kanji is different from it's similar Chinese counterpart.
My advice, start on the basics and memorize the hiragana and katakana. Not easy and easily repetitive, but hard work does bring results. Wyrdwad has pretty much summed up the "technique" for memorizing it.
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Post by Yakra on Jul 10, 2008 5:42:46 GMT -5
I just had a random thought hit me; do they have overseas scholarship or transfer programs? I'd think (or hope) they'd have Japanese language programs for foreigners, right? What more could a person ask for than to immerse oneself in such an environment and simultaneously learn the proper skills for speech? (Here I go daydreaming again, haha.) There ought to be. I was (and actually still should be!) looking into all this a year or so back and over here there's something called Monboshu (er... spelling?  ) scholarships available over here. It was one of those official Japanese government/Higher Education Commission ones. Perhaps (infact I'm sure!) there are some like so in the US too? There definately ought to be! None that I found were as good as the US Fullbright one though (and me no want to come study where you guys are!  ) - meaning, all expenses paid for you and your cat! Anyways, yip, I remember they had this thing that even non-Japanese speaking can apply because there will most definately be a one year course of Japanese for all. Or something...  (Ofcourse, I'm prattling on when I'm like... half a world away from you. I'm sure wyrdwad can inform you better... :'D) Oh... but I think some universities require something called JSSE or something (? ...I think I got that wrong...), meaning you need to know Japanese perfectly before hand? (The one I wanted to apply to did. Pooh.) As for numbers - this Japanese counting is starting to remind me of French. Its kind of like how they seemed to run out of numbers after 60? X'D (Urdu's is the worst though. Every damned letter is different! *can only count to 12 in Urdu*) |
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jul 10, 2008 8:40:31 GMT -5
Kindof like how a tree is a tree, and three trees make up woods or a forest, right? That actually doesn't sound too bad. There are more complex ones like the person praying and others that you'd really need an imagination to see. Sun is basically windows, or two boxes stacked up. I wish I knew where my old materials went, as I'd attempted this before. Back then it was just a "I'll learn Japanese so I can understand imports" thing, but looking to immerse myself in the absolute culture is another story entirely, and one I'm looking forward to. As far as the need-to-know Kanji go, maybe I'm thinking of the JLPTs or something. |
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Post by Nalacakes on Jul 10, 2008 11:04:42 GMT -5
Back then it was just a "I'll learn Japanese so I can understand imports" thing, but looking to immerse myself in the absolute culture is another story entirely, and one I'm looking forward to. Don't necessarily assume that the two are mutually exclusive, though. ^_^ I think I've learned a good eighty percent of my Japanese vocabulary from silly passtimes and hobbies, most notably gaming. Not that my Japanese is even close to perfect, of course. ^^; But I'm sitting the JLPT nikyuu this year, and I don't know if I would've been at this level had it not been for struggling through so many Japanese RPGs. While studying languages, I've seen a lot of elitism, and a lot of people who snub silly little things like games, music, and fluffy, light-hearted films as pretty useless when it comes to really learning. The funny thing is that it's usually from people who score much worse than me in class tests. ^_~ While it's true that you kind of need to buckle down and learn most of the grammar from textbooks, and that there's plenty of things that no piece of pop culture on the planet will be of any help with, you can really learn a huge amount from things that are just pretty silly and fun. ^_^ Anyway, it feels kinda weird talking about Japanese in a thread about China. Umm...something more topical? ^^; I've always wanted to learn Cantonese~! My best friend in high school was from Hong Kong, and she taught me a few words way back when. I'd be really interested to give it a try, but...I'm not really so good at controlling my voice. I don't exactly speak a lot, even in English, and my voice is kinda quiet and...flat, I guess? I'm not sure if I'd have a very easy time with tonal languages. ^^; |
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Jul 10, 2008 12:20:39 GMT -5
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Post by Falcom Director of Fanservice on Jul 10, 2008 17:59:42 GMT -5
Pop culture is a pretty good window for learning how a culture speaks. I've a friend in Malta who taught himself Italian primary by watching Italian TV.
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Post by Musa-Revived on Jul 10, 2008 22:29:13 GMT -5
Yeah, listening to music helps too I suppose. I don't know much about singers from China, but the Taiwanese singers are more popular in the region of Chinese speakers in Asia. Hongkong singers as well, but that'd be Cantonese, not Chinese.
As for television programs, I'd rather watch Cantonese serials from Hongkong than the ones from China/Taiwan.
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phaer
Dinvel
Cherishare
Posts: 83
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Post by phaer on Jul 11, 2008 4:06:00 GMT -5
Well.What you like to know about China?
China is too big even for me...No one dares to say he can retell the whole image of China..~Though what seems usual to me as a Chinese may appear amzing to u.We do have great scenery and great culture and it's really facinating.But also China's no paradise.It also have hellish places,bad respects..I can tell you all I see by my own eyes and all I know..Not only the great things but also bad things.As long as you like to know.
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phaer
Dinvel
Cherishare
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Post by phaer on Jul 11, 2008 4:08:30 GMT -5
Of course I know Ramen if from China...originally..But Ramen is Japanese modified.In fact,to name it in Chinese,it should be called Lamian..I can only accept this name for Chinese Lamian..It's tatally different for Japanese Ramen.
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phaer
Dinvel
Cherishare
Posts: 83
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Post by phaer on Jul 11, 2008 4:29:21 GMT -5
For Kanji, like Chinese, is taught pretty much the same way. Through memorization and constant writing practices. First you learn the individual strokes, then you try to get familiar with the various kanji bases comprising of several strokes, then you form kanji compound characters. That's just the theoretical step by step method. Easiest way is to learn the correct sequence of strokes for every kanji you learn. And you write the kanji character at least a 100 times a day while memorizing the pronunciation and do that for 300 kanji characters per 2 months or so, coupled with using them in sentences, and voila, in a year or 2, u'd have learnt 2000 kanji characters, more than the average Japanese Joe who actually remembers them. Of course, for best results, forgo your daily comforts like gaming and stuff for at least a year. Well, I suppose I have a head start since I know Chinese, and its easy for me to recognize kanji but still almost every kanji is different from it's similar Chinese counterpart. My advice, start on the basics and memorize the hiragana and katakana. Not easy and easily repetitive, but hard work does bring results. Wyrdwad has pretty much summed up the "technique" for memorizing it. Well,well.Chinese learning is not that hard.. I remember myself in primary school writing Kanji.But no that much. One repeated for a single line is OK.That is,About 10 times for each .You'd better try to consider a Kanji a picture,and remember what it looks like. Word is also important.And slangs is quite important if you wanna understand the conversations between natives. I guess a well-trained Chinese learner feels difficult to make out the meaning of at least 4/5 of our everyday sayings.. By the way.I don't like the Japnese word Kanji,for Chinese Character.~I'd rather call it Hanzi... But of course,I am convinced that Japnese words have a deeper infuluence in English than Chinese by know. |
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phaer
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Post by phaer on Jul 11, 2008 4:30:39 GMT -5
by now..
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phaer
Dinvel
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Posts: 83
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Post by phaer on Jul 11, 2008 8:04:59 GMT -5
Heheh, yeah; there are well over 2,000 kanji (if my memory serves me well) -- I can't imagine doing it all in one sitting. It does make me curious what their methods are in teaching their language and writing to young students. I just had a random thought hit me; do they have overseas scholarship or transfer programs? I'd think (or hope) they'd have Japanese language programs for foreigners, right? What more could a person ask for than to immerse oneself in such an environment and simultaneously learn the proper skills for speech? (Here I go daydreaming again, haha.) ....NO In fact..We have at least 50,000 Kanjis... |
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phaer
Dinvel
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Post by phaer on Jul 11, 2008 8:06:00 GMT -5
But,for the most common people,3000 kanjis is well enough.
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rocket
Lyus
well its time to pack it in again. Where do you want to go today?
Posts: 145
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Post by rocket on Jul 11, 2008 11:26:25 GMT -5
Phaer,
Has the inflation of the Yaun Renminbi effected you day to day life?
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I see them alot in the Mystical Ninja games, but I'm certain that their beauty far exceeds virtual scenery.
I've seen a few words like that in the basic grammar book, which cause me to stutter as I read it out loud; my dad compares my reading of the language to an attempt at witchcraft. 
) scholarships available over here. It was one of those official Japanese government/Higher Education Commission ones. Perhaps (infact I'm sure!) there are some like so in the US too? There definately ought to be!
) - meaning, all expenses paid for you and your cat!
