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Post by Varion on Oct 27, 2009 17:03:37 GMT -5
The new search is one of the things I actually don't like. It's harder to do more advanced searches if you want to do them, and that option you can check to speed it up is awful - it seems nice in theory, but it doesn't update very much, leaving tons of dead links in your search results and a bunch of files that're right in front of your eyes missing from the results.
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Post by Incog Neato on Oct 27, 2009 17:18:35 GMT -5
I just checked in at the software dept and found out that my school's testing it before it becomes available for students... two weeks till I can get it. Pretty sure we get OS's for free too :D I dunno about that. There's probably a license fee that they have to pay Microsoft ... unless your school happens to bootleg the thing. :P The new search is one of the things I actually don't like. It's harder to do more advanced searches if you want to do them, and that option you can check to speed it up is awful - it seems nice in theory, but it doesn't update very much, leaving tons of dead links in your search results and a bunch of files that're right in front of your eyes missing from the results. Shh! Don't ruin things right now! And well, there's always the delete and rebuild index option but it'll kind of suck to have to constantly do that manually every time some changes happen on the drive(s). :/ |
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 27, 2009 18:01:40 GMT -5
Hmmm... I could start one hell of a debate here, but in order to promote peace and yet still say something: I agree with Wyrd. xD I don't think you're capable of an actual debate, seen as you seem to love dismissing things you've barely touched, if at all. Also, OSX really does not deserve the pedestal some people put it on. This sort of debate has already been previously brought up here, Varion, but apparently you missed it/them. Anyway-- Your assumption couldn't be more wrong: not only did I grow up with many different incarnations of Mac OSes and many of Apple's machines (and also some Windowses, though they mostly collected dust for being so faulty in comparison; no wonder though, as the Windows OSes literally started off as pirated Macintoshes), but I have also been studying in one of Brazil's most renowned technology colleges (FATEC) for 2 years now. I have heard from and studied under real, widely acknowledged and praised masters and doctors, all of which are aware that, as we previously brought up, the Windows Vista and 7 OSes are incredibly worse than i.e. their latest predecessor, Windows XP. (I won't even bring up Unix-based operating systems at the moment... but certainly later.) Windows Vista at least wastes too much processing power on what was labeled as "security", however not only it doesn't really help anything with security, but it also slows down all the other processes enormously, making the PC inexcusably laggy and slow. It's also more subject to get stuck in eternal loops. (Already happened with me at least once, and the PC wasn't even 1-month-old, while that NEVER happened with me using any Mac OS and machine, and it wasn't that bad with Windows XP either. Also, this happened all the time with the computers from IFPA (German institute for some crazy courses), where I had some lessons for a couple of months, whereas that didn't happen with the PCs with Windows XP installed; we, students, had to fight a war to see who would get the XPs. And believe it or not, but sometimes our classes ended before they were actually finished because of Vista problems.) There are also many program incompatibilities. This has always been a relatively major issue with Windows OSes (think of Win98 and XP), but it has never been this gigantic. Also, look at Linux and the Macs: they have only one version. Why? Because you either do the OS right or wrong. So, what the hell is up with those billions of Vista versions? As if one wasn't bad enough as it is, there are about 9 of those or so. XP itself had 3 or so, and before XP there were even fewer. I'm not sure what MS is trying to pull off aside milking, but this only alienates the users even more. It's also one hell of a burden when you have an issue that occurs with a specific version of Vista; you have to find out the specific solution for specifically your version. We even had such a problem here in ALoY with the directory which contains the save files for most Falcom games. Both Vista and 7 are also trying to approach the iMac in many forms, for whatever reason. Whatever the case is, the Macintoshes have always been computers of much higher quality both in terms of software as well as hardware: i.e. each hardware component of a Macintosh computer is keenly positioned where they will be most usufructed from, optimizing the system to its limits, whereas the typical PCs use a separate cabinet, whose hardware pieces within are not even remotely as thoroughly well-installed; they're essentially "vomited" inside the cabinet and then sealed off. Same for the OSes: anyone who owned and properly used both a Mac and a Win knows there's no room for doubt the former was much better programmed: they don't freeze as much, are MUCH faster, cleaner-looking (hai Vista) etc.. About OSX, to be honest, I won't say it's one of the greatest things to ever walk on earth or something, but it lives up to long-time Mac users' expectations to say the least. I personally prefer the PowerPC-based Macs myself, but I'm perfectly fine with the incredible Intel-based Mac OSes. Back when I was once interviewed by a well-known logistics company named Hamburg Süd in 2007, the director asked us candidates if we were familiar with iMac computers. Before we could ask why, he confessed that in the company there were many iMacs and some PCs with Windows installed; the company had had to fix multiples of those Windowses, but not even once for one of the iMacs. So they were pretty much switching to iMacs in general. I also know that many companies stick with Macintoshes for the same reason, and when they don't, it's usually because they don't have enough money to afford many of the machines or simply because they don't know its benefits (happens mostly with small companies). I, myself, have had two PowerPCs since '95, and they have been perfectly functional until 2004, when it was decided new computers were required (which was when I got my XP). That computer already started presenting itself problematic in less than 3 years though. And I'd rather not talk about my latest PC right now (which came with Vista pre-installed). This is only the tip of the iceberg though, but I'll get myself more specifically informed to try to get back here with technical details and all. I won't be in college before this friday though. Anyway, by no means I can call myself a "computer savvy"  or anything, but you can be certain I don't draw conclusions out of nowhere, nor do I let fanboyism get in my way. *cough*  Anyway, I'm all ears. I'd love to know why Vista is so "perfect". Or Windows 7, for that matter. And please try to keep it civil, for I tried, and we aren't some kindergarten kiddos anyway. (Director of long posts, yay.) |
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Post by Musa-Revived on Oct 27, 2009 19:07:19 GMT -5
@mecharatta: There are drivers for your htomega striker 7.1 at the official htomega website. I should know because I'm using the claro myself  www.htomega.com/downloads.htmlred Hairdo: I guess it's 2 on 2 now. But I have to say that different users have different needs on a computer so all this debating will lead to nowhere because we're not going to be convinced otherwise. To be honest I have no idea what a Mac or a Linux based computer does. I know that they pretty good for office usage, like word processing and stuff. What else? Also I've never really heard of average home users talking about linux / unix or whatever on their computers. Maybe it's the strong arm of Micro$hit in marketing or whatever but does it matter? (I'm not a M$ fanboy u know.) All I need is a good computer that can install all my games and play them in cool 3d graphics. Can Linux and Unix do that? I know Mac can play games somewhat but seriously? Leaving Mac aside, will your average home user know how to use a Linux or Unix based computer? I don't know man. And here's something cool. At least Macs are built sturdy huh. |
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Post by Este on Oct 27, 2009 19:41:38 GMT -5
I just checked in at the software dept and found out that my school's testing it before it becomes available for students... two weeks till I can get it. Pretty sure we get OS's for free too :D I dunno about that. There's probably a license fee that they have to pay Microsoft ... unless your school happens to bootleg the thing. :P Well, yeah nothing is actually -free-, I know I paid for it somewhere in my ever-increasing tuition. There are just no out of pocket expenses... God knows I have enough of those. Also, that video hurt my soul. I suck hard at soldering and watching him take the teeth of his hammer to the board was like nails on a chalkboard. Unless those boards are made by machine; in that case, I don't care anymore. |
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Post by Varion on Oct 27, 2009 19:42:20 GMT -5
I did miss them apparently, I've never seen this discussion on ALoY before.
I don't think Windows is perfect at all. Absolutely not - especially not Vista. Hell, I've already complained about two of Win7's faults in this thread already. It's definitely not perfect, and Vista was a definite step down from XP in terms of performance. Microsoft seems to be pulling off an interesting pattern lately - a disaster, then a good OS, then a disaster.
Now, I can't speak for businesses. I don't run a business - I can only speak as a regular, home user. But program compatibility has not been an issue with either Vista or Win7. Not once. Every application and game I've wanted to run on it has run perfectly.
There's only one version of Linux? I can only assume you mean of each distribution, as there sure isn't only one of those. I've never used Linux though, so I can't speak for it - the idea of using the command line any more than once a year is positively terrifying. Yeah, there is only one version of OSX, but the whole versions thing is ridiculously over exaggerated anyway. Home users get the home version, business users get the business version, and that way regular customers end up with less of their hard drive full of features they don't need (less, not none, of course) and they don't have to pay for them. It's just a case of a few extra options being enabled, and I've certainly never come across it causing the level of issues you seem to imply it. The save folder was moved for all versions of Vista, and as far as I remember that was happening with pre-release versions anyway, which are a distinctly 'use at your own risk' thing anyway.
Also, most PC manufacturers suck. I won't argue on this at all - the reason I bought this MacBook in the first place is that the past three laptops I've bought have been absolute junk. The low end manufacturers, Acer especially, are hilarious for putting bottlenecks everywhere - the most hilarious example I can remember seeing was a quad core laptop with a 5400rpm hard drive. Whoever thought that was a good idea needs to be fired. I don't think Mac design is the perfection you make it out to be either, though - essentially a lot of the time the machines are simply designed for style - especially in the case of ports, where you have issues like security locks getting in the way of the drive ejecting discs properly, or display ports. I do appreciate the fact that the component specs are generally higher though, and don't try to appear better than they usually are - using proper DDR3 RAM and processors with higher FSB speeds, for example, unlike Acer and other such companies who'll advertise a laptop to have 4 GB of RAM, but not tell you until you go to check that it's only 667MHz DDR2.
I think you've misunderstood my position on this though - I don't think Windows is perfect, I have no love for most PC manufacturers whatsoever (If I was to use another, I would build it myself - I've gone through three regular laptops in as many years... and lord help you if you want to use the manufacturer's customer service) and I don't hate Macs in any way shape or form, or else I would not have just bought one, which I love to pieces already - and yes, I am currently using OSX to give it a good, fair chance. At the end of the day though, I just haven't had any real problems with Windows 7, certainly not enough to go to the effort of learning a whole new OS again. That's not to say Snow Leopard is bad either, though, it's just not as amazing as I've heard a lot of people claim it is - and while it's nice to not have to wall yourself in with virus protection, it's not like OSX is securer by design or anything - it's just simply a matter of Windows being more common, so more worth the time developing viruses for, and Apple's refusal to publicly admit it can get viruses at all can only hinder the development of more security measures for it, which isn't going to be a good thing for any businesses considering moving to Macs.
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Post by Varion on Oct 27, 2009 19:49:10 GMT -5
To be honest I have no idea what a Mac or a Linux based computer does. I know that they pretty good for office usage, like word processing and stuff. What else? Both can do your regular office tasks - MS Office is available for Mac - and daily use. Games, on the other hand, are mostly a Windows only thing. A few manufacturers (Blizzard, for example) will manufacture versions of their games for Mac, but the majority of games require you installing Windows on your Mac at the end of the day - whether you want to do a dual boot, or run a virtual machine, or whatever. Falcom games, for example. Linux can run many using a program called Wine, but it's not a universal solution. God, no. Linux really isn't designed for the average home user. It's designed for the people who know loads about computers and want maximum customisability - just seeing the sheer number of distributions of it would be enough to send most home users running for the hills. |
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Post by Incog Neato on Oct 27, 2009 20:32:44 GMT -5
Ubuntu is really nice to look at and good to use when you just leave things as is. However, it makes me rage whenever I need to do troubleshoot ANYTHING.
I Googled like hell for my netbook just to try and figure out how to get things to work properly.
I think I spent more time with the terminal program than doing actual fun things on the bloody system.
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Post by Justin on Oct 27, 2009 22:20:48 GMT -5
I use both Mac OS X and Windows XP between 2 laptops and a home PC. I like both, would rather be able to use both, and couldn't see myself being happy without having both systems. My fiancee had a Vista laptop for work a few years ago, and it was the crappiest computer we've ever used. It was faulty, unreliable, slower than it should have been, and very unstable. That laptop ended up in the garbage, while our XP machines are still running.
Microsoft isn't getting a $ from me, because XP works just fine, and I don't need to buy into the "Its like a mac, but Windows!" fad that Vista, and its update, Windows 7 seems to be.
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Post by Musa-Revived on Oct 27, 2009 22:25:57 GMT -5
Alright I guess I have to come clean about something. The only real reason why I paid for Windows 7 is this.  She is the first official OS-tan that's actually endorsed by Microsoft! (In Japan at least) And she's voiced by no other than Mizuki Nana. All you win 7 users out there go get her win7 theme pack. Damn those crazy Japanese for thinking up stuff like this. |
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Post by Musa-Revived on Oct 27, 2009 22:34:19 GMT -5
I use both Mac OS X and Windows XP between 2 laptops and a home PC. I like both, would rather be able to use both, and couldn't see myself being happy without having both systems. My fiancee had a Vista laptop for work a few years ago, and it was the crappiest computer we've ever used. It was faulty, unreliable, slower than it should have been, and very unstable. That laptop ended up in the garbage, while our XP machines are still running. Microsoft isn't getting a $ from me, because XP works just fine, and I don't need to buy into the "Its like a mac, but Windows!" fad that Vista, and its update, Windows 7 seems to be. Have you even tried using Windows 7? Try Windows 7 first before dissing it. I understand you had your fair share of Vista woes. Fair enough. But you don't see me dissing a Mac or Linux just because I've not used it before right? And you don't have to pay M$ to try out the Windows 7 RC. Well I don't how you're going to get a legit RC key now since the retail is out but the RC expires next year so you got time to test it and then diss it. All For Free. |
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Post by Yakra on Oct 28, 2009 4:06:56 GMT -5
Alright I guess I have to come clean about something. The only real reason why I paid for Windows 7 is this. She is the first official OS-tan that's actually endorsed by Microsoft! (In Japan at least) And she's voiced by no other than Mizuki Nana. All you win 7 users out there go get her win7 theme pack. Damn those crazy Japanese for thinking up stuff like this. ....this is probably the most pointless post in the whole thread but.... I wonder if she'll get nendo-rized. :'D She has the potential to be an absolutely adorable thing like Miku. :'''D But anyways, so all of you guys' Falcom stuff works on Windows 7?  Are these Vista versions or XP? If XP, then.... hm!  I guess I can safely think about nabbing a laptop much later on which'll come with 7 installed upon it...! And I can't believe I actually read all of Red Hairdo and Varion's posts. Scary lengths! |
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Post by Musa-Revived on Oct 28, 2009 6:53:52 GMT -5
....this is probably the most pointless post in the whole thread but.... I wonder if she'll get nendo-rized. :'D She has the potential to be an absolutely adorable thing like Miku. :'''D But anyways, so all of you guys' Falcom stuff works on Windows 7? Are these Vista versions or XP? If XP, then.... hm! I guess I can safely think about nabbing a laptop much later on which'll come with 7 installed upon it...! And I can't believe I actually read all of Red Hairdo and Varion's posts. Scary lengths! Oomph! Oh well, there's goes my little "moe" charged ego down the drain. Yes Falcom games work like they should on Windows 7. And if you're still unconvinced, the good old "compatibility" check works just as fine. @wyrdy: yes, I've met a couple of crashes in windows 7 beta and RC as well, and they're usually involved with UAC hanging the installation of some program. But the best thing is there's no way you can BSOD in windows 7. Just get to the task manager, stop the offending task/program and you're a-ok. Anyway Windows 7 retail has all these little crash bugs ironed out so the chance of any crashes are really minute. |
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 28, 2009 7:39:50 GMT -5
By the way, before I go further, I also forgot to say that Lexmark printers don't work on Windows Vista at all. Or at least not before the 2nd semester of 2008 (I think their latest models are compatible by now, but who knows). At least before, you had to go for either an HP or Epson printer, essentially. And I keep wondering about said compatibilities in Windows 7 as well. Anyway-- red Hairdo: I guess it's 2 on 2 now. But I have to say that different users have different needs on a computer so all this debating will lead to nowhere because we're not going to be convinced otherwise. Likely, or so I think, as well. Nevertheless, we can make this thread at least a bit more informative, I guess, and that wouldn't be bad. To be honest I have no idea what a Mac or a Linux based computer does. I know that they pretty good for office usage, like word processing and stuff. What else? All I need is a good computer that can install all my games and play them in cool 3d graphics. Can Linux and Unix do that? I know Mac can play games somewhat but seriously? In terms of potential, they can do anything better than any OS out there, especially the Windowses. In practicality, it isn't too different, actually. Except that there are more things developed especially for Windows than either Mac or Linux, since the OS is many times more accessible (in practicality), known and used. (Reasons may vary throughout all those years, but simply put, the Windows PC stuff always were much cheaper. Maybe it's related with publicity too and other stuff, but I don't really know about that. Nor does it really matter right now.) As for your need, that's what Windows XP is for, heh. xD By the way... as many of us already know, if one were to install Windows XP on a PC that came with Vista pre-installed, one would run into many problems, because you can't update the drivers for XP with the hardware components that those PCs usually come with (of course that was a marketing move). And I think so is true for the latest computers that have Windows 7 pre-installed. The funniest, most ironic part though is that you can still install your Windows XP on i.e. the latest (doesn't have to be the latest though) Mac PowerBook in a separate partition, and it will run smooth like butter, as Wyrd would put it. Actually, it runs even better than if one were to install it on your typical PC cabinet. Also I've never really heard of average home users talking about linux / unix or whatever on their computers. Maybe it's the strong arm of Micro$hit in marketing or whatever but does it matter? (I'm not a M$ fanboy u know.) Leaving Mac aside, will your average home user know how to use a Linux or Unix based computer? I don't know man. Nah, it doesn't really matter. Nor was that specifically brought up. (Or was it? Did I overlook it? ) But, well, leaving Mac aside, it depends, I think. I mean, if the computer had some nice GUI Linux installed on it and, dunno, maybe already had some basic programs like Mozilla FireFox, OpenOffice and all, and then was given to your average home user, then I don't see why not. Of course, the typical home user wouldn't know how to get the most out of it, but so he wouldn't with any Windows OS up to a certain level, to be fair. And here's something cool. At least Macs are built sturdy huh. Uh, lol? xD What a waste, though. xD Also, in order to avoid a possible misunderstanding: There's only one version of Linux? I can only assume you mean of each distribution, as there sure isn't only one of those. Yup, most certainly. xD Now, I can't speak for businesses. I don't run a business - I can only speak as a regular, home user. But program compatibility has not been an issue with either Vista or Win7. Not once. Every application and game I've wanted to run on it has run perfectly. Well, try running Ys ETERNAL. =/ I have actually managed to install and run it, but it certainly doesn't play properly...: the intro was incredibly glitchy, and there seems to be no way to make the screen stop flickering, as well. On my Vista version, at least, whatever version I have. That game can also be a bit tricky to run properly even on Windows XP, but it did eventually work out for me. (The game is supposed to be ran under Windows 98.) I don't think Mac design is the perfection you make it out to be either, though - essentially a lot of the time the machines are simply designed for style - especially in the case of ports, where you have issues like security locks getting in the way of the drive ejecting discs properly, or display ports. I have yet to experience such an issue myself; that never occurred to me, nor did I hear about that before. There's something a bit fishy about it, I think. I'll keep an eye on that in the future, though. Also, I don't think I have much more to say about your post, Varion, except that I'm somewhat surprised about your thoughts on the whole subject; it does look like I misunderstood your position a bit. By the way, I'm not sure if this is even relevant or not, especially at this point, but sometimes I do hear people claiming that Windows 7 is "a less bad Vista, but not an XP" . |
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Post by Musa-Revived on Oct 28, 2009 9:08:47 GMT -5
Well look at it this way. Windows 7 is what, 1 week old? And XP is like... 8 years old? With 3 service packs no less.
So shall we go back in time to the year 2001 and recall what people said about XP then? Why, I seem to recall my unwillingness to shift from Windows 98. Cause you know, XP was whole lot unstable, loads of security issues... blah blah. And I recall it was only when service pack 1 came out that I finally took the plunge. And what jittery years those were until service pack 2 came out that made me somewhat relieved.
Now here we are in 2009 and history repeats itself. People are bashing new OSes again. Sure XP is a whole lot stable now, games run loads fast on it. And of course people conveniently forget the long arduous years it took to achieve that status.
Vista was a bad marketing strategy gone terribly worse, that I can't refute. But like XP, it was a whole new different architecture for consumerism, so shit happened again since it's uncharted territory. Yet this time it took M$ less than 3 years to right some wrongs. And now we got Win 7 which is undoubtedly a very usable OS with very little kinks in it but still humanity loves to revisit history because it ain't perfect enough.
I just realized something anyway. There are those who dare to move on, while there are those who are resistant to change. That's human nature. "Dun fix what ain't broken" works fine but I'm sure Einstein wouldn't have said that.
So shall we come back here in 8 years time to speak in favor of Windows 7 against Windows 2016 Skynet Edition? Or maybe Mac OSX Uber Cheshire Cat. No wait, what am I smoking? XP will still be around, duh. (yeah that's sarcasm alright)
But seriously, whatever that makes you happy. I know Nanami Chan makes me happy. ~Pirorin~
Edit: And I have to say that it is the manufacturer's responsibility to make compatible drivers for the OS, not the other way round. From a business point of view, you're supposed to go forward not looking behind you.
So I find it ridiculous when people are blaming a OS company for compatibility problems when the manufacturers are given ample time during beta stage to create drivers for the new OS.
So what we have is Microsoft trying to pacify a whole group of ignorant masses by cleaning up after the incompetent manufacturers. And let's not talk about the gazillion hardware out there with a gazillion functions that's supposed to work together on a solitary OS. Sometimes I nearly pity MS. Mind you, only nearly.
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Post by Justin on Oct 28, 2009 9:13:55 GMT -5
I use both Mac OS X and Windows XP between 2 laptops and a home PC. I like both, would rather be able to use both, and couldn't see myself being happy without having both systems. My fiancee had a Vista laptop for work a few years ago, and it was the crappiest computer we've ever used. It was faulty, unreliable, slower than it should have been, and very unstable. That laptop ended up in the garbage, while our XP machines are still running. Microsoft isn't getting a $ from me, because XP works just fine, and I don't need to buy into the "Its like a mac, but Windows!" fad that Vista, and its update, Windows 7 seems to be. Have you even tried using Windows 7? Try Windows 7 first before dissing it. I understand you had your fair share of Vista woes. Fair enough. But you don't see me dissing a Mac or Linux just because I've not used it before right? And you don't have to pay M$ to try out the Windows 7 RC. Well I don't how you're going to get a legit RC key now since the retail is out but the RC expires next year so you got time to test it and then diss it. All For Free. Read my post again. I didn't "diss" Windows 7, I said I didn't care to buy it. This is because I don't like the current style that Vista and 7 are, and I'm more of a fan of XP. I have tried 7 at Staples, thought it looked nice, but don't care enough to upgrade. This is a choice due to style, which in my opinion, came about because of the mac-is-easy fad. It has nothing to do with dissing, as the topic question is "are you planning on upgrading". My answer is no, and the reason I gave holds good reason. |
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Post by Musa-Revived on Oct 28, 2009 9:38:07 GMT -5
Alright fine, fair enough. I'll go back to smooching my imaginary Nanami Chan.
*cough cough* you didn't hear me say that right?
*whistles~~
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Post by Red Hairdo on Oct 28, 2009 9:59:29 GMT -5
Musa: In this case, it doesn't have much to do with people who resist to change or not or whatever; bad changes are bad, good changes are good. And this even has been said a few times around those boards, but new =/= better. I always embrace good changes, and dismiss the bad ones. Simple example: I like PowerPC-based Mac, and so do I welcome Mac OS X. Always embraced both since release, and they never let me down. Another example is Falcom, who, to me, isn't the kind of comnpany that screws up etc..
By the way, back when XP was released, I didn't even have a Windows PC (that doesn't mean I wasn't used to using those or whatever, though). But back when I got one in 2004, I never had anything to complain about. I would love if, eventually, Windows 7 improved more and more, but I find very hard to believe its performance will be eventually as good as i.e. Windows XP, but let's all hope so.
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Post by Justin on Oct 28, 2009 10:18:21 GMT -5
Alright fine, fair enough. I'll go back to smooching my imaginary Nanami Chan. *cough cough* you didn't hear me say that right? *whistles~~ lol loud n clear  |
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Post by Musa-Revived on Oct 28, 2009 10:27:55 GMT -5
Red Hairdo: Well, I guess that's that. Though I... can't... resist... no... more.... You said Falcom isn't the kind to screw up?  Tell me that again when Falcom decides to go all out PSP and abandons the Japanese PC market and turns it into a fetid cesspool of 2D porn muck. Oh well, you all will probably say that "hey PSP is awesome, forget about the PC. And Falcom hasn't screwed up, it made the right decision in fact" And I'll probably cry buckets and delete my account here. *looks around for wyrdy and runs away while the coast is clear. |
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or anything, but you can be certain I don't draw conclusions out of nowhere, nor do I let fanboyism get in my way. *cough* 
Are these Vista versions or XP? If XP, then.... hm! 
I guess I can safely think about nabbing a laptop much later on which'll come with 7 installed upon it...!
