"Religious" people

[Incog Neato]

Religious is in quotations for a reason!

I'm writing about how I feel about the Christian people I see at work~! :B For the record, no one's done anything to offend me. I'm simply trying to get some insight from folks about the following:

It just bothers me that they can be rude to co-workers, talk behind their backs, and do other things that contradict what the Bible teaches them.

It's just ... if you're going to plastering passages from the Bible and prayers all over your cubicle, would you, at least, put some of the kindness and love and understanding from those words into practice?

To me, it's not enough to just believe in God, you have to comprehend his teachings and act on them.

Instead, the vibe I'm getting from these folks is that they only follow their faith for selfish reasons in that it seems to only consist of a relationship between them and God. The people around them are not part of the equation even though they're supposed to be "serving" Him.

Naturally, I don't expect to be super crazy selfless and "perfect" people but I just believe that if they really ARE following the teachings, they could conduct themselves better.

What gives?

[AllenSmithee]

Yeah, I've seen that. I personally believe in Jesus Christ and God, but it isn't so much the rules from the Bible that matters: What matters, is the love, the faith, and the hope you put forth in your everyday life. It isn't about the rules, it is about love!

That's what Jesus believed as well. So it isn't so much that I believe in what the Apostles and such said, and more that I believe in Jesus as a philosophy and an idea, and I don't believe that to go to heaven you need to believe in Jesus as a person, just the philosophy of Jesus, whatever form that may take for you.

Because truly believe in the idea of Jesus is also being a good person; or at least the best that you can be. Forgiveness too, something people don't understand isn't something you just ask for and Oh, you're a good guy again. You need to strive for forgiveness from the people around you, and better yourself not to do whatever it was again.

That's what I think.

[korzic]

I might take a lot of flak for saying this, but if those so-called Christians are acting that way, it's pretty safe to say that they don't have the Spirit of God within them. It seems like a lot of Christians act pretty carnally, and that is one of the reasons why I don't care to associate with them regarding spiritual stuff, even though my views are still well-founded, Biblically speaking.

That's for another time (mostly because I'm not really trying to follow the Bible's teachings right now), though I will say try not to judge them too harshly. If God's Word is to be believed, we are all guilty of all sins at one point or another in our lives, if only in spirit (obviously, not everyone physically commits murder, or adultery). Perhaps we are better than someone else at certain times, but that does not justify looking down on them or belittling them (not saying that's what you're doing); very likely, we were once in their shoes, or will be at some future point.

[Ascended Mermaid]

And the Lord said "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone!"

...and almost everyone ignored Him. *sighs* I don't claim to be a great Christian, I'm only a man -- and I'll follow to the best of my ability. We all slip and fall at times, but we'll come around. I'm waiting on the Codex Sinaiticus translation, for accuracy -- although I doubt He frowns on effort, it's not our fault we have inaccurate translations of scripture.

Anyway, it's disappointing that such a contradiction is dominant in the world, but it happens.

Too often I hear preachers harp on about fictional characters and literature! Harry Potter, which seduces children into magic and the arts of Satan (I believe this to be a contradiction -- many ancient Christian practices can be compared to and/or characterized as "magic"), Pokemon -- for some reason I just don't understand (stories of a preacher decapitating a Pikachu with a sword), and the Da Vinci Code, which has an "anti-christian message" or "disproves God". Fiction! It means it's not real! Look it up! *sighs*

[winterfury]

Well the bible is one of the most controversial book ever written, if you take that book as your personal teacher, no doubt you will act like that.
Are you sure they really don't follows the teachings?

In any case I beleive that most of the religious people in western countries only use religion to conserve their status and to be more related to their territorial/country tradition, maybe they actually beleive in god but I doubt they'll ever seriously listen to the inconvenient teachings of their priests or their holy books (and of course they will defend and support any teaching that is convenient for them.)

(I'm a ferocious antitheist, and I have no means to substain those types of debates in english.. I'm out... )

[HJ]

Oh boy, religion. Not a big fan of that. Well, this wasn't said by Jesus or God, but a wise man once said "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything", which is actually a load of crock in most cases.... But I'm going to follow it today because I'm not in the mood to argue and I don't see the point in alienating a bunch of regulars on a forum I actually like.

Although I do wish the kind of people Nunuu described would disappear off the face of the planet.

[AllenSmithee]

Hey man, I've always believed in equal opinions. Of course, what I believe I think is right, there's no denying that. But I've already got a loose definition of "Christianity" that I follow, but you can hardly call it that.

Of course, I'm not going to try and avoid saying what I believe: conforming to other's views in this discussion would betray my own beliefs more than any belief I have in a God or somesuch.

I think I already described it, and it is something even you probably agree with - so in one sense you might already be a believer in Jesus Christ in my sense of the word.

Of course, that belief is the belief that you should be a good, all around cool guy, and try not to hurt people.

It's got nothing to do with Christianity in particular, but more to do with the fact that at the time I was looking for a way to word this one side of my values system, I found a comic book about Jesus, and it lined up with the thought of being a good guy. It isn't even the image of Jesus portrayed in the Bible or the comic book, and that's not what's important. I believe anyone and everyone has a right to find their Jesus in any form they see fit: Kamina, Geddy Lee, Their Father, etc.

That's basically it. A role model, and an idealized one at that, that fits the philosophy of love and friendship.

For me.

If you don't believe in love and friendship, then you're kinda odd, aren't you?

[Lenalia]

The best take on this I heard was something roughly along the lines of: "I respect what Jesus did and stood for, but his fanboys scare me." i.e., believing in him and what he preached but still recognizing that a lot of people somehow distort his message of love into a message of hate and still claim to be following him, which is just sort of scary and wrong.

I'm not going to go into my own religious beliefs here (religion is one of those topics that I generally try to stay away from -- since it's something near to the core of what makes people who they are, it's something people tend to defend vigorously -- and something very hard to argue logically), but I just remembered that comment and it seemed pretty cool and relevant.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Well, as a Christian(a JW to be exact) I know what yer talkin' about. Since I go door to door alot, we meet people mostly that are Christian, but don't act in that way. Alot of them don't even read the Bible, the book that is the foundation of our beliefs. It's quite a large number of people that we come upon who say they are Christian, but also say they aren't Bible readers.

Now, that in itself doesn't make anyone hateful or venomous, or hypocritical, but you would think that people would atleast read it once in awhile & try to apply it in their lives. That's not to say I'm perfect, nor any of my religion. Some of us go totally haywire, & act in a manner that is not befitting of a Christian, including how they may treat others in the door to door ministry. I'm sure imperfection is a part of it, no doubt. But those kind of people either change their ways.....or leave the organization. It's looks bad for Christians, but more importantly it looks bad for God.

One of my very closest friends that I've known since we were kids, was sleeping with some chick he met at Jury Duty, not to mention treats his now exwife like dirt in general. He's gone totally bonkers & wierd. It's almost like he has some kind of tumor in his brain, effecting the way he acts, that's how I look at him. He's no longer a friend ofcoarse, I have nothing to do with him, but the whole ordeal made me so sick, that I litteraly felt like I had the flu for a few days, when I found out all that he had done. He still claims to be a JW, but hasn't, & still doesn't act like a follower of Christ in any way.

My wife has worked at numerous jobs with the same problem nuunuu. So, atleast know it's not just you. Other's suffer the same kind o' crap! They post scriptures, say that the Lord is their Shepherd, & claim to be Christians, but absolutly do not act like they claim to be Christian, they treat my wife like dirt, as well as others. They gossip, start rumors, trying to get people fired or just to treat her & others like dirt I guess for fun.

I like what Gandhi said, he reportedly told a British official: “When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings laid down by Christ in this Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved the problems not only of our countries but those of the whole world.”

So, ..in conclusion......wouldn't it be nice if all Christians followed their beliefs?

[AllenSmithee]

Yeah, that's a good write up.

The only thing I dislike about people going door to door is that sometimes they pressure me a lot and I don't even own the house or anything O: I just get really nervous in that situation, and feel like no matter what type of door to door thing it is (Religion, electricity plan, et cetera) that somone is trying to trick me somehow.

I was told before about how if you don't believe in Jesus Christ as your savior you don't reach heaven.

And I thought about it for a while and figured, that's not true. In the sense that some people interpret it anyway, I don't think it is true. Any of you can disagree of course, but, here's my thoughts on it.

Like, I believe in the fundamentals of love and friendship and all of that stuff, like I said. It is about spreading the love, not spreading rules and laws, in my opinion.

So like, I believe in the fundamentals of what Jesus says, and I believe in the philosophy of Jesus Christ, and still would even if he was proven never to have existed or if he was proven to have actually been a murderer or something. Because then that guy wouldn't be the way I and so many people see Jesus Christ.

So Jesus Christ is an idea, and I believe that you have to believe that idea to reach Heaven, because believing that idea is basically being a good person like The Bible says.

Or at least what people have told me The Bible says, and what I've read from it says. Of course there are outdated things, and such, because it was written a long time ago, but there's a lot of good stuff, and I've seen some of that good stuff. It has been told to me, and I've been told to read part of it. The thing is, I'm not very good at reading, and I have a lot of trouble getting into what I read and understanding it. But there was a really nifty comic book that opened me up to the ideas of Jesus Christ, that I read and it taught me a lot.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you act as a good person like Jesus wanted, and was. And if you try to better yourself every day you believe in Jesus, rather than telling people "OH YOU'RE A SATANIST!" all angry if someone isn't quite the way you like, you should look at yourself and see if you actually believe what you think.

See, I realize I don't land specifically on any Christian denomination, so I don't say I do. I believe in my own freeform sort.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yeah, I understand that some of us can be overbearing, no doubt, we're all imperfect & have our own personalities, so, everyone has a different approach. Though, believe me when I say that most of us are also very nervous at the door as well, but, we believe in the ministry that Jesus set out, including Apostle Paul saying he went door to door, to try to help people understand the Bible, basically looking for people that want to know more.

Sometimes it actually takes a while for a person to say they want more, or they have the wrong idea about us, etc. So we try to get them to open up, & express their thoughts.....as long as they're not thoughts of hatred towards us ofcoarse!

My uncle recently had a man tell him to get the hell off his property, so, my Uncle turned around & left, & the man ended up chasing him down the street! On the flipside, we don't know what kind of life that man has lived that made him feel so angry toward us. We can't read hearts or minds, so we can't judge a person & just say they're wicked. And there have been people like that, that later ended up actually becoming JW's.

I'm personally nervous beyond belief in the door to door ministry, & let my wife(or whoever I'm with) start conversations, & I try to read a scripture or add something worthwhile to the conversation. I have my own phobias of people in general that it makes it hard to just walk down the street in a suit & tie, people stare at us like crazy, & my mind goes buzzing with thoughts of what they might be thinking about us. Frankly, I'm not good at talking to people in general, no matter the circumstances, until I've been around them for quite some time, & gradually loosen up & become more open.

As for reading, yeah, I hear ya. I've always had a hard time reading, it's hard for me to concentrate, though, I was able to read the LOTR & Hobbit books back in high school, & I seemed to really whiz thru those. Still, in general, reading is not my best subject

[Incog Neato]

I honestly have crapoid social skills and I usually end up reflecting on stuff I say or said and then wonder WHY THE HELL DID I SAY THAT!? The worst is when I'm in conflict with someone that's irate. ^^ I'm always at a loss for words. And I also can't make up convincing lies on the spot so I usually say honest things. >_>

Basically, I don't know how to explain that I'm not interested in talking to missionaries or hearing what they want to say without sounding, I dunno, mean? The same goes for solicitors of commercial services and stuff.

Of course, I don't come at them swinging a lead pipe and screaming for them get the hell away from my house but when they start asking questions about stuff, I don't know how to answer. :P One big question that's always asked is "Why?" BECAUSE I'M NOT INTERESTED. But that's not a reason! YES IT IS. GO AWAY.

If you say you're busy, they'll ask when the best time to visit would be. I suppose it'd sound strange if I replied with "Never."

I seriously communicate best in text since I have time to think about what I'm going to write but when I'm on the phone or face-to-face with someone, I don't have that luxury. The gears in the brain just don't spin as quickly under pressure, I guess. XD

[AllenSmithee]

I have Nunuu's problem with being better able to communicate through text than through speach. I guess it is sort of just my ADHD and those things, that cause me to be not-so-great at talking in person...

I dunno, it's something I struggle with a lot. It's not like I'm SO terrible, because I can make jokes and stuff, but all of my important ideas I can't get out in person, so I have to write blog posts and stuff.

I'm also WAY more charming when I'm talking to a girl on MSN and the like which isn't a big help for me.

[korzic]

Jul 6, 2010 11:59:40 GMT -5 Incog Neato said:

Basically, I don't know how to explain that I'm not interested in talking to missionaries or hearing what they want to say without sounding, I dunno, mean? The same goes for solicitors of commercial services and stuff.

Of course, I don't come at them swinging a lead pipe and screaming for them get the hell away from my house but when they start asking questions about stuff, I don't know how to answer. :P One big question that's always asked is "Why?" BECAUSE I'M NOT INTERESTED. But that's not a reason! YES IT IS. GO AWAY.

If said people profess to believe the Bible, they really ought not to force Biblical discussion on someone who isn't interested. Biblically speaking, we are to talk about such things when asked (1 Pe. 3:15), or if the occasion seems appropriate (Acts 8:27-35), but still not to try and make them talk about it. To do that is pretty much casting "pearls before swine" (Matt. 7:6). Yes, there are Biblical verses to preach to the world (Matt. 28:19-20; Acts 5:42), but as with all Scripture, that must be considered in light of the sum of God's Word, not just a single verse or principle of it (Psa. 199:60; 2 Pe. 1:20).

For the sake of others, that's all I intend to say publically regarding this, so please shoot me a PM if you or anyone else wants to further discuss this with me.

[ParanoiaDragon]

As I probably mentioned, I'm the same way. I get anxiety when meeting new people pretty much in any circumstances. I always feel like I have nothing to say. There's even people that I've known all my life, & love dearly, but, when I see them, I tend to avoid them as I just don't feel like I have anything to talk about. Then I worry that Im coming off as rude, insensitive, a jerk, etc. I'm....kinda paranoid like that

My wife is different, she loves to meet new people & talk n' stuff. But, we seem to really balance eachother out like that.

As for what to say when someone is at your door, I have no real advice I can think of. I don't answer the door to salesmen or whatever, & they never come back. And I don't worry about missionaries of any kind, as the Mormon's don't come back, & I'm already a JW, so, if someone called on me without realising I lived there, it'd be no big deal.

But we always call back on people until we find them home, & they clearly indicate they're not interested. Part of the reason that we ask why people aren't interested, (or "have they always felt this way"), is that alot of people respond, & we end up having mostly nice conversations(with the occasional hellbent ones ). Plus, like I said, we all have different personalities, so, some of us may come off as too....inquisitive I guess? Not sure if that's the right word, maybe too straightforward...I just can't seem to find the right word.

It's funny, cuz alot of my JW friends are extrovert's(they have the gift of gab, so to speak), but only in certain situations. My friend Seth is very talkative & jokes around & is good at talking to his customers(he's a plummer), but, in the ministry, he's way nervous! And come to think of it, atleast some of the ones in the area that are really shy in person(maybe even worse then me in some ways) are the most talkative at the door! Though, with me, I think I have not shyness, but some kind of asperger's. I've never been diagnosed, just my own theory.

As for not being interested, I have a friend whom I've talked to before about spiritual things, though, I didn't ask him if he had any interest Once I did, he said he didn't have any real spritiual interest, no particular reason why though, just isn't inclined to spritiual things.

But keep in mind, that life is a journey, & all of us, even as we get older, continue to learn new things, experience both good & bad scenario's in life, & can change, so if your feelings toward spiritual things change for some reason, I'd say be cautious, but don't be afraid to learn if someone wants to encourage you in that direction.

[Deleted]

This is an interesting thread. I haven't red the bible, but I do have an interest in it but never got around to actually reading it. But from what I know and heard, If you don't believe in God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, you will be a lost soul.

I am Native American, and I have only recently started taking an interest in our own cultures teachings and practices. I don't see any conflict between the Native American teachings/practices and the Christen religion. Since our elders in our community hold the most knowledge of our way of life, I've been taking the time to learn about how my people use to live in the past. I know us new-age generation have been assimilated into modern society so once our elders pass away, our old teachings will probably be on the verge of extinction.

But, what I don't like about some Christians is how they forcefully try to make you believe in the bible, God, Jesus ect. I have had this happen to me and it put me in a very awkward situation. I do believe in God (the Natives call him the Creator) and I do believe in Heaven (the Natives call it the Spiritual World). I have participated is some of our ceremonies and was even given my own traditional Indian name, which is cool

[Kimimi]

I have participated is some of our ceremonies and was even given my own traditional Indian name, which is cool

So cool! I'd love to hear more if you're willing to share

[Raison D'etritus]

*high five for Native Americanness*
Not that I deserve more than a low five, being only like 1/7 Shawnee. (yeah, don't ask how that's mathematically possible)
I've pretty much got the cheekbones and chiseled features. . .that's it. No ceremonies for me.
Oh, but the steroetype about Indians being the best lovers are true, ladies!

As for christian proselytism, it's largely the aftereffect of Paul, who helped to propogate the religion from a reclusive Jewish cult to a world religion. Of course, his methods were changed just a -tad- when the Romans took over, but the message of spreading the faith remained (just the methods changed a bit).

But, mind you, the need to convert new followers is prevalent in many religions, Christianity is just among the most common. There are many religions in the east/middle east with a convert or die approach.
In large part, I think, it's less a necessary fundamental groundwork of the religion than a personal motivation. I've known Mormons who, despite church creed (Mormons are big on recruiting), were completely unconcerned with convincing others to think the way they do.

[Deleted]

I'm actually half french, but my brown side shows more

Mar 25, 2011 12:01:09 GMT -5 Kimimi said:

I have participated is some of our ceremonies and was even given my own traditional Indian name, which is cool

So cool! I'd love to hear more if you're willing to share

The ceremonies are considered very sacred from my understanding. The elders on my reserve seem to keep quite about a lot of the teachings, but it is very understandable why they would choose to keep quite. Most outsiders don't understand, or make fun of our tradition. I have experienced something special through these ceremonies, and I myself, choose not to share them because I know most people won't understand.

Everything I learned seems to be very spiritual, deals with the spirit world. The ceremony I went through is a healing ceremony, intended to help people going through a hard time in life.

I am from a reserve here in Canada (Shoal Lake). You know the city of Winnipeg? they get there water from our lake. I actually found that very interesting. But, the standards of living here on reserves are very poor. Most youth here are into alcohol, drugs, sex (unwanted pregnancies). I don't want to go down that path anymore, so I turned to my elders. I think I just went off topic here...

But I would really enjoy sharing some of my experiences with you, just not on a public forum. I will tell you one thing though. All those childhood stories of fairies, mermaids, dwarfs... they are real, take my word for it... I'm serious Native people know more than you think. That is one big reason why it is not talked about, others will simply view us as crazy or nutz... and I don't blame em' Anything out of the ordinary usually is. Send my a PM anytime.

[schlagwerk]

I've always had an interest in Native American cultures myself but haven't done a lot of research into them. How spiritual they are has always interested me. Also a lot of the spoken languages sound very melodic to me.

I'm full-blown agnostic. My emotional half is blindly spiritual and does believe there is a power out there. My logical half says I believe it because I was raised going to church most Sundays and wanting to believe in something because of my fear of my consciousness disappearing someday.

In general I take interest in any naturalistic religion like Shinto or the shamanistic religions of ancient Europe.