Back To Basics, anyone?

[ausdoerrt]

But it's obviously an inferior system. It's like you're saying that Twilight novels are superior to Tolstoy's War and Peace, because it's more popular, and that it's not stupid because some people find it valid? Spare me, this kind of logic can be used to justify pretty much anything as long as it has supporters. For example, there's this guy who thinks pedophelia is awesome. Therefore, it is not stupid or disgusting, and in fact shouldn't even be illegal, because of that one guy.

As for game reviews, I don't read them at all, because these days the reviewers basically compete at who can praise a certain big-name game more then the next guy so that they can get "exclusive deals" from the publisher.

[Yakra]

Even if FFXIII's system is as linear as say... Xenogears' disk 2, as long as it has a good story to support it, I can't really think it's all that bad and will have zero replay value. Infact, now that I think about it more, while writing this, it sounds almost like Mana Khemia's game structure. One was barely allowed many choices beyond being forced to play out each day as it was given to you. And if one really wanted, one could go and explore some random dungeon and collect some ingredients, but.... it was really really structured. Nothing out of the ordinary happened beyond what was already pre-designated would happen.

But the thing is, I did not find the design in either Xenogears or Mana Khemia poor or inferior in any way at all. It was enjoyable for me, and so.... Basically, I feel that just because one thing might not suit one's tastes, it doesn't really make it 'horrid game design'. Or render that design to an equivalent of a trashy art piece in front of a classic. (Which... really.... is not much of standard to measure anything on anyways. Basically, a classic, or high art form, is just an object that has received the seal of approval of the higher elites. And so, is just considered more 'proper'.
-___-''')



Actually on topic though - I keep thinking about this, each time I look back at this topic. And can't really find any exact game that I would like to see return to it's roots. I don't mind how each of my favourite series have evolved or developed at all. There might be many things in the newer games that I might not agree with. But for each one thing I do not like, I find two more that I actually do! After much brain breaking though, Breath of Fire sort of popped into my mind. Now... I still haven't played this, and I'm actually really looking forward to this, after hearing Fai praise it so many times (with the added motivating reason of it having a Hitoshi Sakimoto soundtrack <3), but.... even when I look at the screens now - the whole game looks so dreary! I really liked how the first to the fourth parts looked. Bright, gorgeous, cheery. And it same to the most ultimate levels of gorgeousness with IV! But then along came V. D: (Well.... I'll probably be proven wrong once I actually start playing! )

....Actually, now that I'm thinking of dreary dungeons, I also really don't like the direction they took the FFVII sequels in either. The actual FFVII, back when I played it, was absolutely lovely. Still is infact. The sequels, though, set out to destroy each and everything I loved about the original with silly fanfic-like plots and turning an amazing world into absolute dreariness of despair.

[Ascended Mermaid]

Feb 11, 2010 5:56:30 GMT -5 Wyrdwad said:

The way I see it, it only takes one person's strong opinions for something to be valid. Which is why I believe there to be no such thing as an objectively bad game

My strong opinion is that LoH: Tears of Vermillion is a great game with a great story. Regardless of the fact that the translation is worse than sub-par.

[ausdoerrt]

Good luck with getting through life with that kind of tolerance. I find it unnerving, to say the least. If you can't bring yourself to piece the good from bad and the right from wrong, then what's the point? We'd still be in the Stone Age if everyone adopted this kind of approach.

[schlagwerk]

I think back to my days as a young NES player where I played games for fun knowing full well that I may never beat them. And even if I did I'd most likely get a single "Congratulations!" screen. The focus was on gameplay, not the story.

Now when I play a game, I expect to beat it. Partially because I've gotten a lot better, but mainly due to games these days being designed to be beaten. Why if you can't beat the game, then how will you see the story?

[Lunar]

One thing I would LOVE to see is Falcom revisiting some of the pre-Eiyuu Densetsu Dragon Slayer games. I would definitely greatly enjoy a revised version of or sequel to games like Sorcerian and Romancia. Sorcerian is REALLY fun in its current fun, I just have to wonder what magic modern-day Falcom could work on it.

[Lunar]

Hey, they recently revived Brandish, so it's not TOO far out of the realm of possibility, is it?

Sorcerian would definitely top my list though, followed by Popful Mail and then probably Romancia.

[ausdoerrt]

Feb 11, 2010 14:00:02 GMT -5 Wyrdwad said:

Acceptance will lead to progress. Of this, I am certain.

-Tom

Hippie

Also, I am taking this opportunity to obey Godwin's Law and remind you that it was "acceptance" that caused WWII to become as serious as it did.

[ausdoerrt]

See, you think it "steps over the line of good taste", but you're still willing to acknowledge it. That's kind of a pretentious stance right there. If you delete it then there must be something wrong with it after all, right? Otherwise, you could just take off saying something like "whatever floats your boat".

No things are inherently good or bad, but some things are relatively bad or dangerous enough to deserve no right for acknowledgement. Saying that anything is justifiable is either extremely short-sighted because it leads to disaster, or extremely hypocritical because you're ultimately just putting on a show of fake "tolerance" to look like you're full of righteous justice or whatever. I don't blame you personally, it's a form of ******ry that US has developed over the years.

[Mutagene]

Feb 11, 2010 18:56:09 GMT -5 Wyrdwad said:

... heck, they could even try their hand at the shmup genre again, and make a remake or sequel to Star Trader!

I must acquire this game. What system is it for?

[ausdoerrt]

"Anything is justifiable" is correct, but it's wrong to accept any justification, which is what you claim you'd like to do. Bad things happen not because they're justifiable, but because others are willing to accept the justification as valid instead of stopping the problem at the roots. Acknowledgement of a stance IS inherently linked to morality, because it pretty much equates with you acknowledging that the opinion has a right to exist. In short, there's no need to fake "tolerance" if you think something is stupid/screwed up, no matter how well the other side justifies it.

[AllenSmithee]

I think what Wyrd is saying is that he understands the other's opinions, however terrible they are. So if somebody murders another guy, he's got some form of justification, it was just a bad thing to do so he should still be punished.

But you're reading into it like Wyrd thinks people can do anything, and it is allowed because they have justified it. That isn't the case, as far as I can tell.

My personal stance is that because somebody does something, they had a reason, but that thing might still be bad. I wouldn't tolerate murder, because murder is a sin, but if it was for just reasons it would deserve less punishment (ie, war to protect the people and country you love). So basically no matter which way you look at it, everybody has justification, and that should be looked into before judging somebody's crime or action.

I think I put that the right way?

[Incog Neato]

Can we move on now? There's far too much >:E going on right now. :(((((((((((((((((((((((((

[AllenSmithee]

Yeah, Nunuu is right, I shouldn't have even posted my opinions to begin with.

I will steal a moderators hat and declare that moral discussion over! And promptly return the hat of course!

[ausdoerrt]

But you're reading into it like Wyrd thinks people can do anything, and it is allowed because they have justified it. That isn't the case, as far as I can tell.

Not quite. What I'm saying is, excessive tolerance is equivalent to sympathizing, or even encouraging. It's also hypocritical to do it the way you described. Consider this statement, one I built upon what you posted: "This guy who murdered a few children should be definitely punished, but if you think that raping and murdering kids is awesome, I'm still totally cool with that". Contradictory much? You know, it's only one step from "thinking" to "doing". Legal punishment doesn't stop crime, but changing the way people think does.

murder is a sin

Pureeease, thinks like murder are punished not because of some abstract concept of "sin", but because we as a society find such actions either morally objectionable, or physically dangerous to the existence of the society. The whole concept of "sin" (along with others like "karma") was created in the first place to attempt to "scare" into submission through the use of "higher power" of those who weren't afraid of the "earthly power". It's but a means, not and end. To say something is a "sin" is to basically say nothing.

[sushi]

[AllenSmithee]

I wasn't saying it is okay to think those things either... You shouldn't think those things are good, but what I'm saying is that people justify their actions, however foolish.

And by "sin" I meant "bad thing one shouldn't do". Plus it is technically a sin anyway...

Honestly, your words are as empty as your soul... But enough talk... HAVE AT YOU!

Wut?

[sushi]

Oh please cheese fondon't.

[Incog Neato]

Feb 14, 2010 9:43:49 GMT -5 Wyrdwad said:

I reserve the right to edit any further messages posted on this particular line of conversation into random one-liners related to cheese fondue.

Or an image of the DOGI FOOT because that's just as good.

Anyway, cheers to everyone realizing the futility of the argument and moving on. ^^

[ausdoerrt]

Then I shall go and make my own cheese fondue because you obviously don't know how to make it right =___=

Think of it this way - we want further than the basics of gaming, all the way to the basics of human morals and understanding. Therefore, we never really strayed off topic ^___^