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Post by AllenSmithee on Feb 8, 2010 4:14:20 GMT -5
I saw this on the Siliconera facebook message board, and figured it'd be a nice thing for us to get all nostalgic/angry about. Basically, which old franchises would you like to return to their roots?
There might be some context errors in the rest of the post, because it is a reply to what was written, but I've done a quick edit to make sure it doesn't reference any conversations over there.
I'd say that the Castlevania Rebirth was unsatisfactory, so I want a good one. I mean, it went with those crummy Rebirth graphics (obviously, since it was part of that series) but that isn't what Castlevania is about to me. Detail, like the 4th in HD? Paging Vanillaware, you're wanted in the Paint-some-shit-for-Konami department.
Yeah, right.
Plus, from the parts I've heard, the OST of that sticks to one style, which is not Castlevania AT ALL. Ever since we've gotten past NES soundchips, the series has had a variety of sampling (even the NES was heavily varied.) Compare the dungeon with the courtyard in Castlevania on the NES, one is a foreboding, almost classic horror scare song (with a hint of VGM catchiness of course) and the other is a rockin' tune that gets your blood pumping and your whip cracking! (If you haven't played it yet, I put them in respective order... but wait, who hasn't played it? Not to offend anybody of course, I'm just saying it IS a pretty staple series, and you've gotta at least have emulated the first game once)
What else though? I'll say Castlevania Final Fantasy (sorry, I'm pretty tired, insomnia ahoy), and not strictly in a gameplay sense but in an anonymous-you-named-those-guys heroic adventure, that really feels like a journey. We'll see how 4 Warriors of Light turns out, now won't we? Damn, sidetracking a bit, but I wish those graphics weren't on the DS. They look SO good. Well, hey, if Crystal Chronicles is any indicator, we may see more than just 4WOL on DS, who knows (we all do, this is Square Enix)
How about Ninja Gaiden? At least... I'd like that. If there's one thing the move to modern era gaming lost with NG it was the cinematic feeling. Does ANYBODY give a shit about the characters in the new games? I don't believe they do. The older games are a different story (not that I've ever seen the endings, but that's the way the cookie crumbles).
While I've only ever played the MMOBMU(rpg...) version of Phantasy Star, I'll put in the obligatory nomination for a return to form for that series. Man, they do look good, but fps dungeon crawls scare the PANTS off of me (I'm not too good at RPGs, fyi). I could start with the 4th, but that don't feel right.
I'll say the same thing about Shining Force, while I'm at it, although I've dabbled in the original Force game a bit, and In The Darkness a bit more. But I've mostly played one of the new ones. Anyway, the older ones are much superior, and I'd like another SRPG.
As weird as it may sound, I'd also say Super Smash Bros. ... Focus more on adding characters each installment than adding more fluff please. The step up to Melee was well thought out, but everything they added to Brawl seemed to be done in the opposite way than it should have been. Rather than add to the gameplay, let's put in a faulty story mode where an expanded Adventure mode would have been obviously better. Not to mention the terrible balance (and I'm not a high level player, I just hate it when characters can clearly win that much easier than others can)... It was nice to have a lot of music, I'll give it that, but the stages were weird... All I'm saying is that it would have been a better choice to focus on adding more detail and expand on what is there, than to focus too much on fan service for its own good (in a cross over game, imagine that.).
I probably have more, but after that little Brawl rant, I'll let you guys go.
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Post by AllenSmithee on Feb 8, 2010 5:00:56 GMT -5
Hmm, game series to be revived? I honestly kept thinking about that while writing my original post, but I've forgotten by now. Time to rack the old brain, eh Snake? (MGS on the mind? Always...) Some of these might have gotten Japanese reboots, or something I missed (like Sega Ages or something, but those aren't too good until they got into the bad-ass porting days, no?) - How about Shatterhand? I don't care if it is a Megaman 9 style affair, or a new 3-d beat em up, I want to punch some guys with my robot fists of fury. Enough said. - Sunset Riders would be another choice of mine. Man, I love that game, and it'd be prime for a remake. How about a 3-D bigname title, and a portable/download title, the first a whole new thing (and not overly edgey, people still have to wear pink pants) and the second something more like BCR? I'd LOVE that to bits. - Within A Deep Forest would make for a fantastic Wiiware game, says I (and you too, Wyrdwad. I know this ). Just give me higher-res graphics, and option song remixes, maybe add some more to the map (maybe not though, only if Nicklas does all of that). - A Nikujin remake. That crazy naked ninja deserves it dammit, he gets no respect! Hell, market it towards the naturist crowd, they'd eat it up! - Fatal Fury? Last Blade? Anyone... Dammit, I can't even trust SNK to do a good reboot, or sequel these days... I guess I'll have to become a video game designer and take matters into my own hands! Or something...
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Post by AllenSmithee on Feb 8, 2010 5:10:00 GMT -5
Oh, that's what NightSky is about?! Very very cool. I suppose you're right about it not needing a reboot then...
I still liked it better than Knytt, but I loved everything so far. Will need to try out Saira.
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Post by AllenSmithee on Feb 8, 2010 5:14:01 GMT -5
Isn't it digitized pictures though? Well I bet he can handle it well, even though I hate those... Here's to hoping! We should get off this topic, you're the only person online on any of the forums I go on right now, and I can't fall asleep... Needless to say, I'm bored.
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Post by AllenSmithee on Feb 8, 2010 5:26:27 GMT -5
Heh, now I need to save up 17$. But first, I gotta get some cash for TvC.
Another game that'd benefit from a back-to-basics outing would be MGS, if only once.
I mean, I'd like to see a new one with the 2-d top down gameplay, but some modern features, for ease-of-use. Somebody mentioned Metal Gear I think on Siliconera, but you know how it is.
In any case, even if it were just back to MGS2 style, that'd by mighty fine.
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Post by ausdoerrt on Feb 8, 2010 5:26:44 GMT -5
Allright, I won't write a tl;dr post since there seem to be enough , but here's my take on it. Can't speak for post-PS1 FF games, since I haven't played any, or for Castlevania since I'm not a big fan of the game. Still, I have learned to fear reboots more than lack of reboots recently. A lot of the time a company comes around to do a "sequel" to an old game, but doesn't give a crap about what that game's all about, or about the old fanbase, and makes some sort of "awesome" turd. *Waves at Bethesda* Ninja Gaiden isn't quite so bad, since at least the new games turned into decent Onimushi-esque action/adventure titles. As much as the 8-bit titles were awesome, I don't think it's likely they'll be brought back since 8-bit just "doesn't sell" so much anymore, it belongs to the nostalgic times.
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Post by Mutagene on Feb 8, 2010 8:46:49 GMT -5
How about Ninja Gaiden? At least... I'd like that. Now that Tecmo has lost Itagaki and pretty much all of Team Ninja, this might happen. ... ;__; Anyway, I'd say YES Final Fantasy, NO Castlevania (I happen to like the hybrids)... and kinda for Metal Gear, since I love the movies. I'm mostly indifferent toward the rest. As for my two cents? Doom. We really need some more old-school FPSs around here, man. Serious Sam lost his sense of humor and Painkiller has turned into a bugfest. AND I'M FREAKING SICK OF COVER SYSTEMS AND HEALTH REGENERATION! Also, Doom 3 was terribad. It's supposed to be a demonic shooting gallery, not a horror game, for Pete's sake!
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Post by ausdoerrt on Feb 8, 2010 9:53:32 GMT -5
^ Well, there's still the HL series...
As for the super-old "corridor shooters", I think their time has passed, and there isn't much reason to make new ones when you can just go and enjoy the classics. The "new-gen" FPS that concentrate on realistic environments, weapons, better AI and atmosphere are currently "the sh*t". Not that I mind, I happen to like some of them.
I agree though, cover systems suck universally (uhh, GoW was horribelle!). Health Regen as applied in most games sucks too, but personally, as long as it's done right it isn't so bad. Just you know, if it actually takes a while to regenerate, or if good gameplay detracts your attention from it. I'd say the first Crysis was good enough for me to overlook the regen system. I'd also strongly urge you to try out the STALKER games, because they do combine weapon/AI realism with a great damage system.
IMO, as far as shooters go, "innovashun" isn't always a bad thing, I mean, of all the games, shooters are the ones most in need of "graphic realism". As much as I love the mindless gore of Quake and Ser. Sam, I did still gleefully watch my sniper bullets trace a parabolic trajectory in STALKER.
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Post by schlagwerk on Feb 8, 2010 13:06:45 GMT -5
I'd say that the Castlevania Rebirth was unsatisfactory, so I want a good one. I mean, it went with those crummy Rebirth graphics (obviously, since it was part of that series) but that isn't what Castlevania is about to me. Detail, like the 4th in HD? Paging Vanillaware, you're wanted in the Paint-some-shit-for-Konami department. And I'd say you're wrong. Castlevania Rebirth was a great game, and the best in the Rebirth series. Gradius Rebirth was blah to the extreme. It felt like what Gradius Gaiden would've been if Konami had no ingenuity while making the title. Contra Rebirth was horrible. The focused too much on camp and zaniness and created a bunch of poorly designed levels, unbalanced difficulty, and completely forgettable boss fights. The only thing I didn't like about Castlevania Rebirth was the damned timer (go ahead, beat Stage 5 on Hard in one life. I'd like to see that speed run!) and making the ghost swords from SotN and beyond a boss fight. I for one would not like to see any established series returned to the roots because nobody ever seems to be able to hit the exact same game design and feeling of the originals perfectly. Some get close but ultimately still miss the target. Even Mega Man 9 was off. The only exception to the above is Fantasy Zone 2 DX from the Sega Ages Fantasy Zone Collection. I can find no fault in that game as far as retro design goes. It even runs on an original System 16 arcade board! Instead, I'd rather see new games and IPs created in a retro style instead of this constant wallowing in nostalgia.
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Post by ShinGundam on Feb 8, 2010 14:34:15 GMT -5
After the so-so impressions of 4wol and playing it .I don't know if that's even a good thing. 4wol is interesting experiment which target both DQIX and FF3-4 remake demographic on DS. It makes sense DQIX has proven to be a raging success in Japan but It definitely didn’t work very well . I hate how limited character inventory each warrior can only carry 15 items , One save slot kills it for me and combat is unconventional for FF dubbed as reboot IMO . I wish they went for FFV remake instead ):
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Post by Varion on Feb 8, 2010 15:54:43 GMT -5
Shining Force. Everything since Sega took the license off Camelot and started making action rpgs with it has been utter junk.
Sonic... oh wait they're doing that one.
That's about all I can think of. I strongly disagree about Zelda though, as my favourite is still Majora's Mask, the one where it felt most like they were trying to do something different with the series. Which is why I'm actually quite excited for the upcoming Zelda Wii, as they've said quite a few times they want to try something different with it - and if that produces another game like Majora's Mask, then I'm all for it.
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Post by ParanoiaDragon on Feb 9, 2010 2:03:09 GMT -5
Bonk-They're doing a reboot, might be great, but, really need to see more screens. Frankly, the best Bonk is the 2nd one, & the series went downhill afterwards, though, probably Super Bonk is my least favorite cuz it's just really dull in it's colors & music....though, that may change someday & the arcade Bonk is just WAY too hard. Zelda-deffinitly not digging the 3D games, Zelda doesn't transition well into 3D, nor does Mario(thankfully, we got New Super Mario in 2D). The 64 games are ok I guess, but, I really love the SNES styled stuff, that's where it's at for me. Mana-someone needs to take charge of that series & make games more like Sword of Mana, Secret of Mana & Seiken Densetsu 3, need I say more? Ninja Spirit-sequals would be nice! Cosmic Fantasy-looks like we may be getting the rest of the series either remade or original, so, YAY! Valis-same as Cosmic Fantasy! Metroid-Friggin give me 16-bit Metroids, now! I love them......who knows, maybe the new one will be where it's at? Castlevania-should stick to it's mid-roots, the Castleroid style, those games are extremely fun! Mega Man ZX-please Capcom, continue the series! Final Fantasy-it'd be nice if it went back to the style of FF7, but, I would be opposed to anything below that either. Lunar-just keep them in the style of the newest, but make sequals! Zonk-needs more in the series, flat out, but, deffinitly 2D with a mix of style between the 2 games. Tomb Raider-I want it to stay where it's at, no more stinkin reboots!!!!
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Post by ausdoerrt on Feb 9, 2010 2:31:01 GMT -5
You mean horrible graphics, nonsensical plot, forgettable characters and repetitive gameplay? Not that anything changed much over the years either Although, TBH, FF series has had "rollbacks" to the past multiple times already: FF9 is a remake of FF3 with a new story, FFXIII is a throwback to the FFVI-FFVIII sci-fi era, FFTA is a return to 16-bit in the aga of 3D, etc.
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Post by ausdoerrt on Feb 9, 2010 9:11:16 GMT -5
Aww, a little friendly trolling to make the day more fun never hurt anyone. Plus, that wasn't the focus of the post, but the more important statement that I don't see that much change in the FF series after FFVII, except some side-stepping for FFXI and XII, and don't really see a need for the series to "roll back". I can see fans of FFVII looking for a remake (because perhaps it'd be bearable with FFXIII graphics), but there's not really such a thing as "FFVII style". EDIT: Whoever mentioned Shatterhand, I guess I agree. It wasn't one of the games I played as a kid (BATTLETOADS!!! ahem sorry), but a remake could be gorgeous. Its setting and cheesy story is too perfect for an awesome cyberpunk action-adventure game.
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Post by HJ on Feb 9, 2010 10:28:12 GMT -5
You're right, the FF series did change after the PS1-era. It stopped sucking. ... and then began again after FFX. How could you not like the 3D Mario games? SMG was amazing, it's probably in my top 5 of all time favorites. As for Zelda, I disagree. Four Swords Adventures was pretty decent, but Majora's Mask is just better. Twilight Princess... eh, I liked it, but it wasn't anything to truly write home about. Either way, by 3D Dot Game Heroes if you want old school Zelda.
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Post by ausdoerrt on Feb 9, 2010 11:49:16 GMT -5
My point is, it has changed fairly little after the SNES-era games (graphics aside), and after that FFX was still much like the PSX-era games, and so is FFXIII. MMO aside, FFXII was but a side-step with mixed results. I fail to see a "return to the basics" element here...
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Post by ausdoerrt on Feb 9, 2010 12:19:02 GMT -5
Tone maybe, gameplay - not so much (except the already mentioned stuff). I don't really think tone is reason enough for "return to the basics", not do I think it achievable in most cases. I'd say that "tone" of the games is largely dictated by what's popular in the society and gaming industry overall, not something easily changed. The recent FFs have ridiculous outfits because it's popular (uhh, Japanese fasion, spare me), and same thing with the cinematic approach. Not really FF-games exculsive issue. I also would very much like dispute your claim than the games only recently started to follow "popular trends", they've been doing it all along.
While I like me some Amano art, he's had his bad days too. coughFFVIIFFVIIIartcough
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Post by ausdoerrt on Feb 9, 2010 12:58:53 GMT -5
Just remember that people didn't like FFIX all that much, at least not in the US. I wonder if Square is making another one of those.
I'd also say that the characters in FFVII follow some well-established storytelling cliches, but of course you'll disagree so w/e.
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Post by schlagwerk on Feb 9, 2010 13:02:15 GMT -5
Every FF since VII has been majorly playing with the tradition RPG systems for better or worse. Earlier ones, too.. but not as radically as FFVIII through XIII
FFI - D&D ripoff to the point where they had a Beholder enemy that had to be changed for Western release. FFII - SaGa beta. No levels, your stats just raise with what you use FFIII - Jobs! Only most suck... FFIV - Most traditional JRPG of the lot, actually. Hrm.. and one of the best ones. Maybe drastic innovation is not the way to go? FFV - Jobs II: Electric Butzaloo. Only this time they're fun FFVI - 2nd most traditional JRPG only with a huuuuge party featuring several dungeons that involve multi-party exploration FFVII - JRPGs for dummies. Let's strip out most of the traditional equipment, have people come back from the dead after every battle, mini-games mini-games mini-games, and give the fans some anime plot. They like anime, right? Too bad! At least the materia system was cool FFVIII - Drawing, Junctioning, and Memory Loss become swear words to FF fans throughout the world FFIX - return to the roots mostly. And incredibly blah EDIT: oh and riverdancing rats FFX - New active battle system! And it's cooooooool FFXI - MMO. New ground for FF, not for the rest of the world FFXII - single-player MMO. Plot mostly stolen from Star Wars which was mostly stolen from any traditional fairy tail/fantasy story FFXIII - This game doesn't have time for RPG elements! No towns, barely any exploration, plot 24/7! Not that I really think this is a bad thing. I've given up on FFs being traditional RPGs by now that if the game is fun, I'll enjoy it. And the combat system is fun.
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Post by ausdoerrt on Feb 9, 2010 13:52:03 GMT -5
^ Well, TBH most all JRPGs are in one way or another a child of Ultima 1-4; after all, the genre was created when the Japanese failed to understand what D&D was all about...
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