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Post by AllenSmithee on May 6, 2010 15:21:04 GMT -5
I like RPGs but I don't play them for more than 20 hours usually. I just watch that.
Like, if a game overstays its welcome, it gets lame.
So yeah. I'm not that big into RPGs...
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Post by fireinthehole on May 6, 2010 21:56:49 GMT -5
I like RPGs but I don't play them for more than 20 hours usually. I just watch that. Like, if a game overstays its welcome, it gets lame. So yeah. I'm not that big into RPGs... Really? I generally dislike games with lengths less than 20 hours since I really don't feel like paying for something that I am not going to invest at least 30 hours on. In fact, with RPGs, it's always past 10~15 hours mark that you finally get to do something interesting (like your characters start to be good at what they are supposed to do). Anyway, for further recommendations, I assume you have at least one of Ratchet and Clank games in your collection so I will just mention that series. Otherwise, I recommend Shadow Hearts series. It's a bit of "love it or hate it" game and judgment ring system (you have an arrow moving around the ring and have to press the button when it's at the right place) can get a bit frustrating (I know wyrdwad hates this series) but personally I find it interesting. Anyway, if you are interested, I recommend getting the third game Shadow Hearts: For the New World since it's a gaiden game (so it has no connection to the previous games) and is shorter than the previous ones as well.
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Post by Incog Neato on May 7, 2010 1:08:56 GMT -5
Oh yeah. I think it partially has to do with old age or ADD (for the younguns) or something. XD
I used to love long RPGs (like 30 - 40 - 60 - 80 hours) but I'm not sure I can play them anymore.
I recall trying Ultima VII: The Black Gate a few years ago again and found myself just madly clicking dialogue options just to get through the dialogue as fast as I can since I wanted the NPC to just shut up so I can get on with the game.
The problem with that game is that just about EVERY NPC has a billion things to say. ^^; I seriously doubt I can sit through it anymore. :B
Similarly, I don't think I can handle another go at Shadow Hearts: Covenant even though I loved that game to death. :(
Nowadays, it's action RPGs or just actiony games in general that make me happy. :3
But! If the game is incredibly interesting and engrossing, I might be able to do it. I mean, I was able to go through Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic~! Did all the sidequests too, I believe!
Haven't done much with KOTOR II though. Too distracted with all the modern and new games available and coming out. :P
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on May 7, 2010 1:54:24 GMT -5
*nods* That's why I'd like to look into shut-up modes. Especially in an ARPG, it'd be useful; an arrow points you to your next *exact* destination (like in Megaman Legends 2), except everyone shuts up; you skip the dialogue and you can just enjoy the action element.
That STILL annoys me about EVERY Zelda game to date. You can't SKIP anything! So on subsequent playthroughs, you're forced to be annoyed by stuff you *already know*!!!
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Post by HJ on May 7, 2010 2:48:50 GMT -5
I like RPGs but I don't play them for more than 20 hours usually. I just watch that. Like, if a game overstays its welcome, it gets lame. So yeah. I'm not that big into RPGs... *shrug* Well, your loss, then.
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Post by Raison D'etritus on May 7, 2010 3:55:40 GMT -5
I'm with Smithee, Wyrd, and Pup on the subject of game lengths. And it's a damn shame, as I PREFER RPGS. . . ALOT. I played nothing else for like 20 years (hence my poorly developed reflexes in action games).
But I tend to get bored after playing the same game for over a month or so, and without much free time, it's virtually impossible for me to finish ANY RPG in under 30 days. Even if I had all the time in the world, I think the shorter games have higher replay value, simply because you can beat them twice in the time a single playthrough takes for any other game.
Sadly, I think the only short RPGs I've played were Chrono Trigger, FFIV, Arc the Lad, Suikoden, and. . . and. . . I seriously think there's another one or two, I just can't for the life of me think of what it or they is/are. . .
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Post by Incog Neato on May 7, 2010 4:13:42 GMT -5
I'm with Smithee, Wyrd, and Pup on the subject of game lengths. And it's a damn shame, as I PREFER RPGS. . . ALOT. I played nothing else for like 20 years (hence my poorly developed reflexes in action games). Ah! So THAT'S why I'm crappy at action games! I used to stick to RPGs like glue, never branching out to play other genres much (er, well, other than space shooters but I sucked/suck at those too). XD Things only changed when I got the PlayStation 2. I do think my main reason for suckage though is that I never EVER try and get better at them; that is, I don't learn from my mistakes nor do I try to. I just play them and if I keep dying (such as constantly missing jumps and falling into lava), then so be it. ^^; But!!! It's not all that frustrating because I start to laugh if it keeps happening. XD (This excludes stupid game designs though like 3D games where you don't have camera control.) Methinks people that get flustered are the ones taking the games too seriously. :V
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Post by HJ on May 7, 2010 7:58:32 GMT -5
I didn't have time to write this before, but I do now, so:
I don't really see the idea in basing a game's worth on it's length. If a game is great and keeps introducing new gameplay elements to keep things fresh, is it such a terrible sin that it lasts you 20 hours instead of 10? After all, it kept you entertained all the way through, so even if you had bought two 10-hour games, you wouldn't have gotten more enjoyment out of them as opposed to just playing the 20-hour game.. In this case, the 20-hour game gave you more value for your money, too. I don't see how this CAN be a bad thing; it honestly baffles me because it's so economically illogical. You guys must have money coming out your ass if you can think like that.
On the other hand, length is certainly bad if it just drags on and on without spicing things up satisfactorily and the gameplay ends up getting stale as is the case with, say, FFXIII.
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Post by HJ on May 7, 2010 9:31:20 GMT -5
Well, I guess we're just different there, because it doesn't matter to me if I've been playing the same game for 20 hours if it's still fun, games don't have some obscure time limit for me, they just stay fun or they don't, and in the latter case I usually drop them.
And you've spent 50 hours on Ys Seven? Wow, it must be a lot bigger than OiF and AoN, then, because I blazed through them with pretty much everything done in like 10 hours.
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Post by HJ on May 7, 2010 9:54:41 GMT -5
Well, 10 hours might be a slight understatement, I'd have to replay one of them to see, but they were definitely games I would define as very short. Not that that's necessarily bad, though it kinda is in this case because I was left wanting more.
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Post by AllenSmithee on May 7, 2010 9:55:11 GMT -5
I certainly don't havwe a problem with a long game if it is good throughout, but it needs to remain good.
It is just something. Every day I play a game I risk putting it down the next day, if that makes sense. And the further I'm playing it the longer it gets.
Plus, I don't usually play games for a long time in a row, at least one weekdays. I play games for 3 hours maximum if I really like it on a weekday, because I still have other stuff to do. And that's if I'm lucky/really like the game.
Factor in having 9 people in one house, having a short attention span (ADHD), and being OCD -- especially for keeping experiences and being immersed -- and you've got a recipe for disaster.
I can watch a game a lot longer than I can play a game though. My bro and I are at 60 hours in Persona 4... to bad we haven't played for a long time.
One thing that is kinda disgusting though: 100 hours for Nocturne? I hope the game was REALLY good, because that is more than FOUR DAYS total. Four days. Wow.
I mean, I'd do it. But just think about it. Four days spent playing a game. Like I said, I'd do it, but it also seems kinda meaningless. Although I also like SMT.
Of course length doesn't mean good money. Hell, I'd rather a shorter more interesting game for the same price as a longer boring one. At least I'd finish that.
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Post by HJ on May 7, 2010 9:58:41 GMT -5
I never said length equals money well spent, or if I did then I misspoke. However, is one good 20-hour game not better from a monetary standpoint than two good 10-hour games, assuming all three games cost the same?
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Post by Raison D'etritus on May 7, 2010 13:09:51 GMT -5
Depends on how much you enjoy them. Typically you're paying for enjoyment, not just a time waster. Seven Samurai is my favorite movie, but not because it's three and a half hours long. Monty Python and the Holy Grail is another one of my favorites. It's less than helf the length. If games WERE charged hourly: If you play a ten hour game twice, but the 20 hour game once. . . well, I shouldn't need to say any more. God of War and Metal Gear Solid are both great, incredibly popular games. Both are under 10 hours. If anything, for me, this is replay factor. "I have a few free hours over the next few days. Want to play a game. Nothing too involved. Oh, GoW or MGS. Bingo." Five playthroughs=any other game. Money well spent? Duh.
Also . . . Nocturne, 100 hours?! Damn! That's one of the few games I've ever NOT finished (I'm not a big fan of quitting, and usually continue a game even after I stop liking it so as not to render the time already spent a complete waste). I liked the game for the first 20 hours or so, but after a while the incessant battles (screams "could I please just FUCKING WALK here!!!" at screen) and the lack of story (what there was was certainly interesting, just not very developed, with few cutscenes that didn't feel very involved) just wore on my patience. I eventually put it aside between 30-40 hours in and fully planned to pick up where I'd left off. Until I sold it.
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Post by HJ on May 7, 2010 13:32:54 GMT -5
Again, I guess we're just different, because I don't decide which games to replay based on their length, but rather how much I feel like playing them. Incidentally, my most replayed games are Tales of the Abyss, FFX, the Ace Attorney series (yes, I sometimes replay the entire series in one go) and Okami.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on May 7, 2010 13:59:55 GMT -5
I saw King Kong once. Mom bought me the DVD aaaand I never even played it. My sister opened it and played it instead. XD It was an okay movie, but I generally expect Jack Black to play Jack Black, not someone else. You know, a quirky guy who tries to act cool but fails and ends up being funny, and yet that strange level of dorky funniness makes him cool. He wasn't that in King Kong. Okay movie, but not worth more than one watch, and not worth the DVD release. It was only worth seeing in theaters.
// My point is, I'd rather play a *really good* 5 second game, (Wario Ware Inc. is loaded with them!) than a 50-hour lackluster pile that calls itself a "game". (FFXII, I'm looking at you!)
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Post by fireinthehole on May 7, 2010 21:47:36 GMT -5
Hmm...I hate to admit, but I disagree with most of the opinions here, especially regarding replays. Forgive me if I sound offensive, but I get frustrated when I hear some people say they don't like video games after playing them for only for 10 hours or less (so the gameplay is still "noob-friendly" and hasn't offered much). In my experience with video games, most video games don't differ greatly from others in the same genre in their first 10 hours, even for ones like SMT: Nocturne. For example, in SMT: Nocturne, for first 10 hours, I just ordered my monsters to attack regardless of elemental affinity. Then, after those 10 hours, I realized I need to learn how to buff/debuff in addition to watching out for elemental affinity and went back to create some monsters that know how to do this. Once I mastered buffing/ debuffing and set up my monsters properly, past 20 hours mark was a smooth sailing with only few deaths now and then due to some bad luck (like enemies getting critical hits on my protagonist repeatedly) or not realizing some tricks behind certain bosses (many bosses in SMT will kick your ass if you can't figure their patterns out in time). And for some action games like Thief series, for first few mission, you basically need to hide in shadow for some time and move quietly. It's not until several missions later that you need to be creative and start crafting more complex strategies like distracting the guards, knocking them out, or putting out the fire. For games, there aren't many options and most strategies boil down to use some basic controls to get through at the beginning. That's why I feel that the true charm of many video game only comes once you put 10~15 hours into the game. Of course, if the game still doesn't interest you, you should give it up (like I did with FF 12). And as for replays, unless the game presents me with completely different missions/alternate endings for new playthroughs or lots of easter eggs to find on my own (I am looking at you Ys I/II Complete), I don't see much of a point in going back to play again because I already enjoyed all that the game has to offer. I mean I'd never play new game+ with all the levels and items from the previous playthrough since it's obviously going to be boring curb stomp battles for me (and that's not even counting my muscle memory, making the game easier anyway since I know what to expect). Also, even for those games that I really love like Baten Kaitos: Origins, Ratchet and Clank series, and Ys: OiF, I have hard time going back and even if I do decide to replay them, I replay it because it's been almost an year since the first playthrough and I just cannot find some other fun games to do at that point. And as I said before, I don't feel like paying for something that I am only going to enjoy for less than 30 hours. So yeah, I love the first playthrough, because the joy of learning how to play, predicting some plot twists to come, and discovering nifty tricks behind gameplay on my own is magic that happens only first time. Thus I want that first time to last.
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Post by fireinthehole on May 8, 2010 0:02:43 GMT -5
When I say the game picks up, I mean bringing out the full use of its gameplay. Sure, it's good thing if the game can hook you up instantly but I rarely find that to be the case in any games. In fact, I strongly disagree with you on SMT: Nocturne being fun from the beginning. The reason why it's considered difficult at the beginning is that you just don't have much variety to choose from and each boss demands you build a specific strategy for it. You will have to find some specific demons that have certain buff / elemental spells and your main character's ability is limited as well. So you don't have much choice in the matter. It's frustrating and you have to put up with it. It's almost necessary to go out of your way to grind in order to go through the game. It's not until you reach at least lvl. 20's that a lot of useful skills start appearing for the protagonist and you can start customizing your demons and character to your liking for real. So I start experimenting with many demons and skills, thus eliminating any need for grinding. Even though bosses still need certain strategies, it essentially boils down to what you should NOT do and once you figure that out, you are free to destroy each boss however way you want. I finally get to tap into the game's true potential and the rest is good 40+ hours of fun. And the same deal with Baten Kaitos: Origins. You don't get good cards at the beginning so your options are limited to making few combos and holding out longer than your enemies. But once you reach late 10's, you start getting powerful finishers and can even charge MP fast enough to go for huge chain combos and the rest is smooth sailing. The reason why I dislike replay is that I have to go through the process of going from weak to strong again. The first 10 hours is always the tiring, learning-how-to-do part. But past that 10 hours of tideous grinding is where the game starts throwing challenges, allowing you to take full advantage of its system. Come to think of it, another reason why I disagree may be that I really like challenging games (like the previous two main SMT games for SNES, Phantasy Star 2, and classic FF 1). So I expect to go in and spend at least some hours getting to know the system.
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Post by HJ on May 8, 2010 13:25:43 GMT -5
I'm still not sure I follow. I get that you like to finish games you start, but that doesn't explain what you have against long games that keep their gameplay fun and exciting. Is there some magical curse on you that instantly makes you dislike most games past the 20-hour mark no matter what?
I also only ever replay game if I'm out of other stuff to do, which I'm usually not. And replays makes the logic even more convoluted for me. Suppose you replay a 10-hour game, you'll have spent a net 20 hours on the game anyway, and played the EXACT same thing twice. How is that not waaaay more repetitive and stale than one 20-hour game? It just doesn't make sense.
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Post by HJ on May 8, 2010 13:51:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I know what ADD is, but... hm, I didn't know it was possible to have a gaming variant. It just seems kind of illogical to me, but that's probably just because I don't have it myself, then. I know all about distractions, though. I dropped everything for Ace Attorney Investigations when that came out. But I complete most games I start in about a week assuming I don't get sidetracked, so it's not a huge issue for me. Anyway, now I understand your issue now, but I can't really relate to it. And hopefully I never will.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on May 8, 2010 14:12:42 GMT -5
All I'm saying is that I hate *SHITTY/BORING* long games. Not that long games are shitty/boring -- that's entirely backwards. If those were my sentiments, I wouldn't have much of a collection.
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