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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 26, 2009 17:51:15 GMT -5
Ys VI > YsF xD Reason 1 (pages 2 and 3) Reason 2 (first two pages) But I'll already do a "cross-examination" of what has been brought up. xD Yeah, I made that stupid mistake as well. Like Ys VI, the new system is wonderful but there are some tiny points that tend to be annoying (i.e. drowning, status effects, those way too powerful boss monsters at the beginning, etc.). I do expect Falcom to fix those things and PERFECT this new system in their next game, like they did with OiF after Ys VI. I don't think that absolutely everything that Falcom changed from Ys VI to YsF was an improvement: if nothing else, it was a downgrade. (Reasons in the links above and more details below.) The drown meter was already used in Ys Origin and Xanadu Next, though. It's old hat, at this point. -Tom Ys OiF didn't have it and it's my favorite game. One of the reasons why I like Ys: OiF so much is that it got rid of most of the annoying features in Ys VI (i.e. status effects except poison but I don't mind that one, dash jumping) There's no poison in YsF. Also, I find it odd that, of all the 4 Ys VI's statuses, you find the poison to be the less annoying. xD (None of them annoy me, though; they make it more challenging and demands more skill from the player, both strategically and in terms of gameplay, and I like that. Not only that, but many accessories prevent you from getting any of these: with the existence of the very statuses and their respectives counter-measures combined, the game consequently gains a lot more of depth.) The only status you'll see in YsF is stun, however you inflict such an ailment (that is, it's the other way around). As for the Dash Slash/Jump, that's an expansion in gameplay that was highly rendered down in YsF, and named Jump Slash. The Jump Slash was much less effective and rewarding when compared to Ys VI's Dash Slash/Jump. Not to mention, the Dash Slash/Jump had MANY other uses aside... jumping in great distance. There are many easy-to-execute (once mastered, which isn't hard) exploitables, both for mere travel as well as fighting. (By the way, the existence of Jump Slash made the upward spin/thrust obsolete, as you couldn't use it as effectively as you could in Ys VI, and it's important to mention that regular move was Adol's strongest in both games, which could damage opponents twice or so.) and improved upon the remaining features (i.e. the sword combos became fast and effective with burst option to deal out massive damage in one go, transportation device to decrease the time wasted in backtracking). I see many faults in this statement... You labeled Hero Mode as an "improved feature", but it's just a "new feature" since that wasn't in Ys VI anyway. In my opinion, like the double-jump, it's a feature that has its two sides of the coin. The Hero Mode in particular makes it all more "mindless", or at least stimulate that. (Technically you can use it thoughtfully.) The Hero Mode was an interesting feature they added, but... that's all, really. It raises your defense in half, raises your power and make you move faster for a while. It's cool, but it doesn't make a game the best of the world or anything. (Though I do like going to Elderm Mountains in the beginning of the game with it. xD) About (regular) swordfighting, the effectiveness and speed are just the same between both (if nothing else, they were rendered down in YsF. Details below). In YsF, you are able to slash consecutively 6 times on the ground. No matter what sword you equip, it will always be like that, only changing ATK power. In Ys VI, however, you have three swords, but unlike in YsF, each one has its own attacking pattern, making it all less dull. All the swords can chain up to 3 attacks, except for Livart, which can chain up to 8 attacks at once (and the 8th swing has multiple hits; up to 3 I think). Again, this added a lot of depth, and it can be much more effective as well. The swords also had a skill each, further putting more depth and effectiveness to it all. They also had magics, though so did YsF with the bracelets. As for the Wing Talisman, it indeed was more versatile than that item's equivalent in Ys VI. However, you're mistaken if you think it actually was an improvement: Ys VI hardly had ANY backtracking whatsoever in the first place, while YsF was full of those. The ONLY backtracking there is in Ys VI is in Ruins of Amnesia, if you later want to get the Black Tabulas and fight Majunun. There's also the Pikkards' quest, but if you could just warp anywhere, it would be so... boring. Dull. Afterall, THAT'S why the rewarding item is so good. (Daylight Stone, which works like the Spirit Necklace in YsF.) It actually makes it all better in the end (the reward actually feels like a reward xD). It retained only the good points from Ys VI's system, removing the rest, and focused on improving those points to perfection. Again, I point to the two links above. And to this very post. xD I will say that removing annoying features is trivial compared to making / improving awesome features, but removing them will definitely help highlight awesome features to players so why not do it as well? Well, if a game focuses too much on an feature, no matter how awesome it is, people will eventually get bored of it. And if there are no other features for the players to rely on, that will damage the game BADLY. And considering Ys SEVEN is one of the series' longest entries, this would be reeeally bad. Not to mention, what you call awesome/annoying is solely your opinion. xD Therefore, taking into consideration Falcom wants to please as many people as possible, they will add all that they think it's awesome. If someone didn't like something they put in it (like you regarding that drown meter), that someone can also rely on everything else the game has to offer, meaning it will be easy for the bothered to overlook it.
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Post by Ranzor on Sept 26, 2009 17:59:13 GMT -5
The Director of Long Posts strikes again! xP
You can rant all you want, we still prefer OiF!
And man, you say there's no backtracking in VI?! That game is choked full with backtracking, specially if you wanna get all the items and complete all the side quests! I can make a list later, if you want.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Sept 26, 2009 18:10:28 GMT -5
- Delivering letters to Baslam from Silva - Delivering pieces of the mirror of Zeme to Olha (3x) - Midboss in Plains (2x) - Pikkards (4x) - Tabulas in Ruins (although it CAN be done without the Prism Fragment) - Monsters appear at field west of Port Rimorge - Rehdan Drunk wants Pirates' Firewater - Eresian Drunk wants Locket Need I say more?
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 26, 2009 18:59:00 GMT -5
The Director of Long Posts strikes again! xP You can rant all you want, we still prefer OiF! I was expecting either you or Wyrd to say EXACTLY this. XD By the way, I was replying to a rant. ' People can like anything they want. I'm not forbidding anyone here of anything. All I'm doing is showing what Ys VI and YsF really are. And not forcing anyone to like either of them. And man, you say there's no backtracking in VI?! That game is choked full with backtracking, specially if you wanna get all the items and complete all the side quests! I can make a list later, if you want. But this I wasn't expecting. xD Anyway, I gave it a lot of thought before what I said about Ys VI not having that much backtracking. Unless you consider moving from Grana-Valis' entrance to Limewater Cave's entrance "backtracking", or moving from Rimorge to the Rehdan Tribe for plot purposes and that kind of stuff.* In Ys VI, all the dungeons are near one of the towns anyway, and no backtracking is in a dungeon, aside Ruins of Amnesia as I earlier stated. As for YsF, there were much more far-away places to actually backtrack to, since most were in the depths of the dungeons, so in YsF the necessity for a teleporting item this versatile was reeeeally big. *You made me recall a certain side-quest that required backtracking though. But then again, like with Pikkards' quest, it made the reward actually... feel like one. xD Power Seed <3. Highly required for taking on Majunun, since power is the most important attribute for that battle, and power against it never is enough.** **And that reminded me of a certain YsF side-quest, in which you could find and escort Elena back to the town. And it has quite a reward, yeah... a great pile of nothing. xDD Sorry for the sarcasm, but it was fitting. XD - Delivering letters to Baslam from Silva - Delivering pieces of the mirror of Zeme to Olha (3x) - Midboss in Plains (2x) - Pikkards (4x) - Tabulas in Ruins (although it CAN be done without the Prism Fragment) - Monsters appear at field west of Port Rimorge - Rehdan Drunk wants Pirates' Firewater - Eresian Drunk wants Locket Need I say more? - Yup, one of the two real exceptions to the rule (though there's also what I brought up just now...) - About Olha's Mirror Pieces, no backtracking is required: you stumble on her in a way or another xD - That mini-boss is REALLY near the last dungeon, so you'll kind of pass by it anyway. (At that point you can also fight the boss twice: in the end of the game it returns in a stronger form. Just need to reload the screen; no backtracking required) - Same as the letter quest* - I just recalled this isn't a backtracking, actually: after Limewater Cave, you'll have to go to Zemeth Island again, and in the way you HAVE to pass through Ruins of Amnesia. xD You can just get the Black Tabulas then, since you already have the Fragment. And technically, you can fight Majunun too XD - It's near Port Rimorge, it's a short trip; nothing like what YsF calls for - At that point of the game, the bridge between the islands is already fixed, so the two cities aren't too far apart (especially with Dash Jump exploits ~) - You will cross ways with him more than once at the point you get the Gold Locket anyway, so it can't be considered backtracking *- There's actually something else you could have mentioned: there's a mini-boss in Limewater Cave, and later on in the game it respawns again, but stronger. You could consider this a backtracking, were it not for one thing: the Pikkard quest. Well, the Pikkard quest itself involves backtracking, but this mini-boss doesn't add to the "counter", since you'll have to pass by where it is waiting for, once again: A Pikkard can be found in the very end of the cave. Killing two birds with one stone, this is, as well as for most "backtrackings". xD
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Sept 26, 2009 19:10:06 GMT -5
My point is that there still is quite a LOT of backtracking in AoN -- and had it a method of teleportation like OiF had to alleviate time spent going back and forth from the ends of the dungeons to everywhere else, the quest would've felt much less tiresome. OiF's quests were tiresome because you actually had to twiddle your thumbs strategically with a PC controller, where AoN's quests were tiresome because they were more or less an agonizing test of patience.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 26, 2009 19:35:18 GMT -5
*sigh* =/ Actually, it's hard to determine what you can call backtracking or not at times...
Anyway, yeah, I can't say AoN has NO backtracking. I have to take that back. But I do still think it has much, much less backtracking than what people make out of it, no doubt. (Which is why I didn't feel it at all, aisde the Pikkard's and Letter's quests. ... But again, I think it's a two-sided coin. xD Which side stands out the most will vary from person to person.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 26, 2009 20:24:32 GMT -5
Well... a two-sided coin again, perhaps. xD Your point is valid. I dunno, as for me, I used to fail at the the timing as well, but later on I just got the grasp of it, I think. I don't think it's a mere matter of determination, since you said you... tried about 30 or 40 times to execute the Dash Jump properly. ' Maybe it's not your case, but, I still think it's a matter of being used to... it's more or less what happens in fighting games. xD
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 26, 2009 22:30:20 GMT -5
Alright, my turn to counter-rant. Ys VI > YsF I don't think that absolutely everything that Falcom changed from Ys VI to YsF was an improvement: if nothing else, it was a downgrade. (Reasons in the links above and more details below.) There's no poison in YsF. Also, I find it odd that, of all the 4 Ys VI's statuses, you find the poison to be the less annoying. xD (None of them annoy me, though; they make it more challenging and demands more skill from the player, both strategically and in terms of gameplay, and I like that. Not only that, but many accessories prevent you from getting any of these: with the existence of the very statuses and their respectives counter-measures combined, the game consequently gains a lot more of depth.) The only status you'll see in YsF is stun, however you inflict such an ailment (that is, it's the other way around). I find poison to be the least annoying status ailment for one simple reason: it does not affect my control of Adol's movement. It gets really frustrating when you get hit by an enemy and gets killed before you could try to move away or even open the menu. Confusion and heavy in particular mean the enemy will stick next to you and continue to hit you. It's not bad if you are powerful enough, it's annoying when you are going to the dungeon for the first time (even if you know the way already). For dashing, I agree with wyrdwad that I absolutely abhor having to do accurate timed hits. For sword combos, in Ys VI, other than Livart (which I still have issues with due to timing which I sadly can't get it right always), I found the sword combo and magic for fire sword dull and the sword combo and magic for electric sword difficult to control (if you press it too often, Adol activates its magic and flies off in another direction). In Ys OiF, there's only one sword combo but damn if it's not effective. With dash enabled, you could run up to the enemy and start wailing on them with your combo. I see the Hero Mode as the limit break of the normal sword (since each sword in Ys VI had one that required a full meter to use). I liked using it more than the limit break for each sword in VI because I thought the Hero Mode complemented the normal sword combo's style very well (quicker hits with wider area). And fire, wind, and earth magic were huge improvement from sword magic as all of them could be used between normal sword combos to deal even more damage to the enemy without breaking the flow of normal combos. I said that removing annoying features is trivial compared to making / improving awesome features. Yes, all features can get boring no matter how awesome they are given enough time, but I don't think the main system that Falcom used for Ys VI and OiF was reaching that point at the time Ys OiF was released. By Ys Origin's time, maybe, but definitely not Ys OiF's. Also, I believe it's important for the game to have unique features and develop on them so that it stands out among all the other games of similar genre. taking into consideration Falcom wants to please as many people as possible, they will add all that they think it's awesome. This also means if Falcom thinks some features are not awesome, then they will remove it for the next game. Lastly, as you said, small inconveniences like drowning are insignificant compared to the fun I have with Ys Seven and can be easily overlooked. However, I do wish Falcom can notice those aspects, agree with my perspective of them, and change/ remove them so that they do not come up again. It's just something I'd like to see happen.
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Post by Incog Neato on Sept 27, 2009 4:34:55 GMT -5
Honestly, I thought that was a brilliant move on Falcom's part, as it really enhanced the need for strategy during boss battles - in Napishtim, and in Ys Seven as well, you can suck horribly at a boss, but still win if you have enough healing items to spare. (: What's more is that you can switch between characters and still survive because, with the way I play, the AI is much better at blocking and dodging than I am so the characters are usually near full health. XD I guess that's one reason the bosses have a billion HP in this game. And I was actually surprised at the fact that you could save ANYWHERE in Ys SEVEN (except in boss battles, duh). Guess Falcom wanted to move on from the whole old school save spot stuff. Ys OiF didn't have it and it's my favorite game. One of the reasons why I like Ys: OiF so much is that it got rid of most of the annoying features in Ys VI (i.e. status effects except poison but I don't mind that one, dash jumping) and improved upon the remaining features (i.e. the sword combos became fast and effective with burst option to deal out massive damage in one go, transportation device to decrease the time wasted in backtracking). It retained only the good points from Ys VI's system, removing the rest, and focused on improving those points to perfection. I will say that removing annoying features is trivial compared to making / improving awesome features, but removing them will definitely help highlight awesome features to players so why not do it as well? While I can understand that moving slow and drowning can be an annoying feature, I think it adds a bit of variety and urgency to the gameplay. Like wyrd, I loved the water dungeon in Origin. I felt that it was a lot of fun though, at times, I freaked out when I couldn't find the oxygen item when the O 2 bar was near depleted. ^^; Heavy is one I really dislike ESPECIALLY when it happens in a boss battle. (GODDAMN YOU, SEVEN.) But I can live with it. I've never once thought that Falcom should remove these things though and I guess they never received enough complaints to take them out either. Honestly, I don't think I've seen anyone complain about these things here before. ^^;
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Post by Incog Neato on Sept 27, 2009 10:52:58 GMT -5
So, this may be a stupid question, but... how do you block? It's a horrible key-combo that I WANT TO CHANGE BUT CANNOT BECAUSE THE OPTION IS NOT THERE. Or something. For sure, I want to move the damn skill key over to L button. But whatever. Can't do that either. Anyway, it's L + R together, IIRC. HATE using it because I'm so paranoid of setting off the EX attack. :P Guess I should make use of it while the gauge is not full but it's full like 99% of the time. :B Dashing is more fun anyway.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 27, 2009 12:07:58 GMT -5
And lo and behold... I don't play fighting games, because I find the majority of them really obnoxious! (Yet I *do* play and enjoy rhythm games... but I guess the difference is, in a rhythm game, the ENTIRE GAME is timing; whereas in an RPG, timing always just seems like a gimmick to me.) Another thing I liked better in OiF - which also carried over to Origin but NOT to Ys Seven - is the lack of usable healing items. Honestly, I thought that was a brilliant move on Falcom's part, as it really enhanced the need for strategy during boss battles - in Napishtim, and in Ys Seven as well, you can suck horribly at a boss, but still win if you have enough healing items to spare. That's pretty minor, though... like, I'm not going to claim that that, specifically, is the exact reason why I prefer OiF to AoN. It's just one little reason out of the bunch. And I think part of why I liked that change so much is because it fits in with my general opinion that a game should avoid extraneous items as much as possible. That's why I prefer Super Metroid to Symphony of the Night: in Super Metroid, every item in the game has a purpose, and nothing is extraneous; whereas in Symphony of the Night, you get a LOT of useless junk by the time you finish the game. -Tom Varion complained about this too. xD Anyway, I'm sorry I have to disagree with you two on this, in a way: I, myself, don't EVER use items against the bosses in AoN (except Majunun). Not only I don't like spending items, but I also like to win the boss battle with a merit to it, that is: to figure out the boss' patterns and what I can do in order to win without even being hit if needed (because most of the times, you can beat boss fights in games without being hit, theoretically, no matter how hard that may be. At least so is true for YsVI and YsF). Also, you see, even with items, some boss battles were harder in AoN than in OiF: don't forget that in Nightmare mode, in Ys VI, you can carry a maximum of 3 units per item, and you can't change an item in boss fights. I have had much more trouble with AoN bosses than with YsF ones at times. And, well, NOTHING is harder than Majunun on Nightmare. xDDD Anyway, I think this is just something extremely minor: you still have to figure out how the boss works out anyway, in both titles. Alright, my turn to counter-rant. Ys VI > YsF I don't think that absolutely everything that Falcom changed from Ys VI to YsF was an improvement: if nothing else, it was a downgrade. (Reasons in the links above and more details below.) There's no poison in YsF. Also, I find it odd that, of all the 4 Ys VI's statuses, you find the poison to be the less annoying. xD (None of them annoy me, though; they make it more challenging and demands more skill from the player, both strategically and in terms of gameplay, and I like that. Not only that, but many accessories prevent you from getting any of these: with the existence of the very statuses and their respectives counter-measures combined, the game consequently gains a lot more of depth.) The only status you'll see in YsF is stun, however you inflict such an ailment (that is, it's the other way around). I find poison to be the least annoying status ailment for one simple reason: it does not affect my control of Adol's movement. It gets really frustrating when you get hit by an enemy and gets killed before you could try to move away or even open the menu. Confusion and heavy in particular mean the enemy will stick next to you and continue to hit you. It's not bad if you are powerful enough, it's annoying when you are going to the dungeon for the first time (even if you know the way already). About the slow and confusion statuses, it's true that they normally mess with your movement. But as I earlier said, you can easily counter them with accessories (and items that heal you from the ailments too, now that I think about it). Not only that, but when you Dash Attack, the direction you move to and your speed are 100% normal. That is, even with the ailments on you, you can skillfully escape or move on anyway: use Dash Attack --> Change Sword to faster cancel the animation --> Dash Attack again --> repeat. Once you are hit (and thus get a certain status ailment), you have some invincibility frames, which are much more than enough to let you execute a Dash Attack to escape. In the case of the Slow status, you don't even have to change sword: you can just repeatedly Dash Jump, creating a Dash Jump Chain, which is the fastest way of moving yourself in Ys VI, and faster than anything seen in both YsF and YsO. (You can get yourself such an ailment as well by equipping the Heavy Belt accessory, if you want. It saves you an impressive and surprising amount of time for travels.) (By the way, the Curse status also doesn't interfere with your movement.) For dashing, I agree with wyrdwad that I absolutely abhor having to do accurate timed hits. For sword combos, in Ys VI, other than Livart (which I still have issues with due to timing which I sadly can't get it right always), I found the sword combo and magic for fire sword dull and the sword combo and magic for electric sword difficult to control (if you press it too often, Adol activates its magic and flies off in another direction). In Ys OiF, there's only one sword combo but damn if it's not effective. With dash enabled, you could run up to the enemy and start wailing on them with your combo. I really don't see how YsF's sword combos could be necessarily more or less effective than Ys VI's, really: you kill enemies by the end of any sword combo in both games, anyway. You also just hit them all the same. But I think you're mistaken about the Fire skill and magic: its skill was extremely useful actually, it's a great way of attacking with a lot of caution, and it's especially required on Nightmare. (More information here.) The magic was also very powerful, and it was at times the most useful magic, like in the battle against the boss in Limewater Cave: against it, Livart's Magic was rendered useless, and almost the same befell Ericcil's Magic, but the Flame Magic was a catalyst against it. All sword magics in Ys VI were useful for given situations. I see no problem with any of them. About the Erricil skill, there is totally no way you would activate it by accident: you have to press the attack button MUCH faster than the speed Adol chains up its normal attacks. You can't do it, unless you intend to. (The skill is also required for getting the Black Tabulas, by the way.) I see the Hero Mode as the limit break of the normal sword (since each sword in Ys VI had one that required a full meter to use). I liked using it more than the limit break for each sword in VI because I thought the Hero Mode complemented the normal sword combo's style very well (quicker hits with wider area). And fire, wind, and earth magic were huge improvement from sword magic as all of them could be used between normal sword combos to deal even more damage to the enemy without breaking the flow of normal combos. Actually... I find it hard to compare the Sword Magics with the Bracelet Magics, they are two different things altogether. Perhaps it could be easier to compare the bracelets with the sword skills instead, but even that wouldn't be quite right. I see all that, Hero Mode included, as different features. Afterall, Ys VI and YsF are most definitely not the same game. They both have their own good points, and I think that the bracelets and the hero mode are really good pluses of YsF. In other words, I have no disagreements there, except that I don't think they can be quite used to compare things with Ys VI, and vice-versa. (I still favor Ys VI overall, though.) I said that removing annoying features is trivial compared to making / improving awesome features. Yes, all features can get boring no matter how awesome they are given enough time, but I don't think the main system that Falcom used for Ys VI and OiF was reaching that point at the time Ys OiF was released. By Ys Origin's time, maybe, but definitely not Ys OiF's. Also, I believe it's important for the game to have unique features and develop on them so that it stands out among all the other games of similar genre. Actually, that will vary a bit from player to player again. I, for example, have played Ys VI from beginning to end about 6 times or so. And I must say I did get fed up eventually. xD And I have also played YsF just as much, perhaps even a bit more. I already got way too tired of certain features, but I can still rely on some others for the time being etc.. But that's just me. Some players could have played both games only once, so making a feature stand out more or less could be good... or not. I still believe it's safer to have many features for the player to rely on. Focusing on a thing or two is ok, but our divergent point here is that I don't think in order to do that, it's better to get rid of the other minor features. taking into consideration Falcom wants to please as many people as possible, they will add all that they think it's awesome. This also means if Falcom thinks some features are not awesome, then they will remove it for the next game. Lastly, as you said, small inconveniences like drowning are insignificant compared to the fun I have with Ys Seven and can be easily overlooked. However, I do wish Falcom can notice those aspects, agree with my perspective of them, and change/ remove them so that they do not come up again. It's just something I'd like to see happen. That's true, but that isn't necessarily the case when something is either added or removed. In YsO, for example, we all know that Adol is awesome, but they initially removed him. xD I believe Falcom likes trying out new things, and observes what the fans think of what they did. I believe, in Ys SEVEN's case, they wanted to put back some past features in it again, maybe to see the fans' reactions. I have yet to play Ys SEVEN myself, but so far, I wasn't ever reeeeally bothered by any feature in particular in their Ys games. I can hardly find something in them to actually criticize, in terms of gameplay.
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Post by Incog Neato on Sept 27, 2009 16:41:59 GMT -5
Red: The more you talk about Ys VI, the more I realize that I mustn't have "gotten" how to play that game all that well... because for me, I only *ever* used Livart. I found the other two swords utterly useless, and never once equipped them unless I absolutely HAD to to beat a boss battle... and then afterward, it was right back to Livart. (: I also never really got down the boss strategies, I don't think... on just about every boss, I'd use up all 9 healing items, and just barely win. o_O Other swords useless!? Seriously!?!? I switched between them depending on enemies I was fighting cuz I do believe (although I could be wrong since I can barely remember the gameplay aspects of that game so I haven't contributed to all the arguing for or against it) that some have elemental weaknesses. Maybe you should try the different swords in boss fights so you can finish them off faster! (BTW, did you fight the first part of the last boss battle with the one sword too? :P) I never play Hard mode and beyond because I just suck. I make my Adol (or whoever I'm controlling) a MAGNET for enemy hits in any Ys game I play! :D Crappy reflexes and no anticipation skills for the ultimate win!!!!! Oddly enough, it doesn't prevent me from writing regular enemy and boss battle tips in my walkthroughs! Well, in all honesty, I can SEE the patterns of the bosses in these games, especially Ys SEVEN. The problem is that I can't pull out of an attack or get away from their attacks quickly enough. In SEVEN, with the exception of the 5th(?) boss, I actually found the bosses to be sort of boring so far. I never felt the difference between the three games that much in the sense that you're describing them mainly because I used pretty much every kind of attack/weapon/skill/ability that was available to the characters. Of course, I did prefer certain ones over others so I used those a hell of a lot more than others. Lord knows I loved laying bombs everywhere with Hugo. XD You can technically go through all the games spamming the same attacks and abilities as much as you can. Of course, you'd want to change the strategy when it's obviously not harming an enemy. :P As for SEVEN's gameplay depth, it seems to consist mostly of knowing which character to use when attacking enemies (and it's damn obvious from the type of damage that you're dealing) and dodging. It's sort of common sense, IMO. I haven't really paid much attention to what skills were more advantageous against what sort of enemy and all though -- I just spam everything I have that's mapped to the command buttons. XD I have learned, however, that using Somersault while you're a few feet away from the enemy does nothing. XD As a result, I mapped all the short-ranged skills of the other characters to the same button so they can ALL connect the attack when I make Aisha use it. ^^; Oh, and for flash blocking, I'll never master that due to the whole crapoid reflexes bit. XD
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Post by fireinthehole on Sept 27, 2009 16:51:28 GMT -5
Well, in all honesty, I can SEE the patterns of the bosses in these games, especially Ys SEVEN. The problem is that I can't pull out of an attack or get away from their attacks quickly enough. In SEVEN, with the exception of the 5th(?) boss, I actually found the bosses to be sort of boring so far. It'll get better, trust me on this one.
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Post by Ranzor on Sept 27, 2009 17:13:37 GMT -5
Well, first off, let me say that I love Ys VI and played through it many times. I'm not like wyrd with the bosses and rarely ever use any potion with them. But I mostly just used Livart, for the better speed and width of attacks, and because of the whirlwind at the end of the combo. I only switched to other swords in boss fights, to use all the magic, in Hard mode to get those enemies that are only really affected by one sword, and in the end, when the swords were maxed and I could use Ericcil's magic as much as I wanted. I thought that OiF and Origin were much more streamlined: you could use magic a lot and the lack of status effects was a bonus for me. I also like much better not having usable items and just picking them along the way. The six hit combo felt much better, for me, than VI's 3-hit, also. And maybe it's the different ways we play the game, but I sure had a LOT of backtracking to do, and I missed being able to teleport.
So, as wyrd would put it, we'll just have to agree to disagree, Red.
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Post by Incog Neato on Sept 27, 2009 17:29:53 GMT -5
And maybe it's the different ways we play the game, but I sure had a LOT of backtracking to do, and I missed being able to teleport. Be glad to know that SEVEN lets you teleport pretty damn early in the game. I was surprised and rather thankful though as it lets you zip around the map faster to get those items needed for fusion (if you're paranoid like me and don't like seeing low quantities of materials ^^). @ fire: I hope so! They're disappointing me so far! >:/
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Post by Ranzor on Sept 27, 2009 17:48:22 GMT -5
Nice to hear that. I just hope they release it for PC pretty soon. And don't loose spirit, keep at it and you'll level up!
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Post by Red Hairdo on Sept 27, 2009 19:43:20 GMT -5
So, as wyrd would put it, we'll just have to agree to disagree, Red. I'm perfectly fine with that. YsF has X features. Ys VI has Y features. If someone likes X more than Y, no problem. The thing is, however, if people don't know Y or thinks that Y is something else and unfairly discredits Ys VI for that, that's where I come in. xD I'm just making people know what Y is, and not making them like Y more than X. (Heh, sorry for the nerdy example. But you get it.) Ehh, not interested. Normal mode is good enough for me. After all, it's the "normal" way to play. If Falcom wanted me to see those new tricks, they would've put them in normal mode, since that's obviously how people are MEANT to play the game. -Tom It's not as simple as that, Wyrd. xD For example, there was a certain Wii/GC Fire Emblem game (forgot which) that had 4 difficulties or so, but when it got localized in the States, the "Easy" difficulty got renamed to "Normal", and "Normal" to "Hard". So, you have two normals now. What do you have to say now, huh?! Seriously though, the difficulty's name is irrelevant, in my opinion. "Normal" is just what may please the majority more and not what "was meant to be played on" necessarily. That's why difficulties changed for that Fire Emblem game in the States, because the people there aren't as hardcore, or so they thought when localizing it.
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Post by Mutagene on Sept 27, 2009 19:58:17 GMT -5
Thing is, American gamers tend to be sissies, which is why sometimes games are made easier when they're localized. There is one exception to that rule that I know of, which is the original Devil May Cry 3; that one had hard renamed to normal, and normal to easy.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Sept 27, 2009 20:01:52 GMT -5
You mean I gave up because I was playing on HARD mode? Dammit! XD
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Post by Mutagene on Sept 27, 2009 20:06:42 GMT -5
Pff. Hard's nothing. I'd love to see you try Dante Must Die mode.
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