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Post by Incog Neato on Dec 8, 2009 10:12:08 GMT -5
Legend of Mana soundtrack is :O~~~ (<-- drooling not barfing).
Minstrel Song is amazing too!
But, on topic:
"Square Enix announced Taito's DS RPG Estpolis: The Lands Cursed by the Gods [Lufia: The Lands Cursed by the Gods] will be playable at Jump Festa in Tokyo between December 19-20, the game will be released in Japan on February 25, 2010."
I'm sure someone will write up impressions about it~! :D
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Post by Justin on Dec 11, 2009 15:53:44 GMT -5
I read today, that in the new Lufia game, you can switch characters on the fly. It can be done anytime, even during mid combo attacks. I'm sure this is going to make the game even crazier to run through, and at the very least keep you busy while playing. www.siliconera.com/2009/12/11/switch-characters-on-the-fly-in-estpolis/I'm also listening to the Lufia II OST as I type this. Damn fine soundtrack!
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Post by acropolis500 on Dec 20, 2009 19:27:06 GMT -5
This might be a stupid question but what was the item Maxim fused with his sword in the trailer?
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 21, 2009 16:44:18 GMT -5
Well, before all else, I apologize for taking pretty much a whole month to address a few matters here, but not only did lazyness and forgetfulness get the best of me, I was kind of busy lately. xD And also I apologize in advance for talking about something non-new-Lufia, as well. Well, that's the thing, you can't use items with the other characters if they're stunned or dead, and the tiger has several attacks that stuns. And telling me to go level grind is a flawed argument, because that's a frustrating chore in itself. That certainly WOULD be a flawed argument, but I didn't even say that: I just said one shouldn't take a boss underleveled, which you thought it implied one had to level grind, while it doesn't. Chances are that you skipped an enemy or two, or even didn't explore all the areas, as well as making you sure you killed all the enemies on the way during said exploration. But even if you did all that, you cannot expect to beat a boss while on the proper level if you don't play properly: in that boss' case, for any party member to fall unconscious, you have to get hit by that "body stomp" attack of his, and the only way for that to happen is if you behave like a sitting duck, since it's totally predictable when he's going to do it. As for the fire skill of his that sets you on fire, it only hits a single target, meaning you have to switch to another character to use the herb item on the victim, and if any of the other party members are unconscious, it's solely the player's own fault, for reasons previously stated. There, that's the simple strategy for the tiger boss. xD Hell, I just (and I mean just before writing this) replayed the start of the game on my PSP, and the very first boss stunlocked me with a blend of crystal gem magic and an undodgeable scythe attack that knocks me down. It's the first boss! Thank god that old dude was there to heal me, but still, that sets the precedent for the rest of the bosses, which are broken, frustrating and unfair. That's a big problem which IS in SoM and IS the game's fault, and it still troubles me to see everyone deny it. The hit detection, however, was noticeably better than when I played it on the Virtual Console, so points for that. Now I might give it a 4/10 instead of a 2. And, again, your own loss in battle is your own fault: (Jump the video to 1:00.) That guy is on level 2, likely by having killed the rabbits in the way. Anyway, as you can see, that boss does minimal damage, and your HP is pretty decent. Not to mention, at that point you might already have one or two candies with you as long as you killed the rabbits in the way. The stun move you mentioned delivers practically no damage (1 HP of damage). Not to mention, that guy in the video (and likely you as well) wasn't playing properly: after hitting the boss once, you have to get away from him, because if he uses the stun scythe skill on you, he won't be able to attack you before you stand up again (that if it even hits you, since there's a chance of you to avoid it, like any normal RPG). The boss has very short HP as well. So basically, you just attack and run. And of course, only attack AFTER the boss did something, else you may miss your attack due an attack clash. And most obviously, don't attack before the % "counter" below your HP hits 100 after having attacked. Honestly, to have a problem with a boss like that one... it's merely your own fault. I know that when I was 4 years old, as well as some other 6-year-old friends I had back in the time, were able to finish off that guy easily, as well as to finish the whole game. And I know the same is true for most of those who played SoM back then. I wonder if you have trouble because of a "mindless fighting" instinct of sorts or something, but anyway, there're no excuses; if one is to blame for losing that fight, it is solely the player. Besides, this is an action RPG, not a traditional RPG. What happened to skillful dodging and well placed attacks? In this genre, leveling up is supposed to level the playing field in case you aren't able to read the boss' pattern and dodge properly. Ironic of you to say that... xD Anyway, SoM is also all about skill as well: if your MP runs out, it's time to draw your weapon and play wisely. Actually, it's even possible to go through the whole game without using magic, however that's kind of hard, and it would be most pointless to have magic if one weren't to use it, even if only to heal and power up a weapon with a given element etc.. (The only boss I recall you had to use a bit of magic was the final boss, but it wasn't an offensive magic: you just power up the hero's sword with a special element, so I guess that doesn't quite count.) Besides, action RPGs are action RPGs, and not mere platformers or action games; sometimes you may connect an attack, and it may be critical. Or it may be not. Maybe it can even miss. Same for, say, a spell cast on you: you may resist it. You may not. It's an RPG, goddammit. xD It isn't a RULE for those to involve no luck factor whatsoever, especially not for making an awesome ARPG like SoM. It's a very flawed argument and nonsensical complaint: it's like saying Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy are shit because you can miss an attack or deliver criticals. Whether you like an ARPG more like Zelda and Ys than SoM and other games, though, is your opinion, which you have all the right in the world to have. By the way, I have to ask: just how far did you get in SoR? It doesn't look like you came close to finishing it or anything... No I read those too, and they tied in pretty well with the comment I quoted. Its not the games problem you have a style preference. There are bosses in that game that are easy with a Sword instead of Magic, or long distance weapons. That's why the game gives you a variety, you're supposed to use them all. So the game isn't hampered by your dislike of grinding, because its not needed. Its hampered because you don't like using all of the tools it provides for you. I think many of these "countless flaws" have more to do with your own personal preferences, than actual game problem. Not saying there isn't any though, as there is hit detection issues, really stupid ai, and some unfinished level design. Hm... I should have read this before writing up all this, as this summarizes all I said, going directly to the point. xD I don't agree that much about the AI though, but when compared with today's standards, then perhaps. xD By the way, I liked SD3 a lot, but just like SoM, it isn't flawless or anything, but it's still pretty awesome. Also, hj, while SD3 shares some similarities in gameplay with SoM, it's a completely different beast. Same for its story: they certainly put an incredible deal of effort in this, and the game has many different routes. Basically, it has 3 different main sotrylines, with 3 different final bosses. Some routes are better than others, though. Anyway, if you hate SoR, that doesn't mean you'll hate SD3. Also, I have to say: I only like the first 4 Mana games, all of which were done by once-incredible Squaresoft (the very first game not as much though). I think Sword of Mana was pretty mediocre in general, yet still playable and somewhat enjoyable, until you get bored, which was constant for me (no real story, dullest gameplay, and I wasn't particularly fond of the level up system). Heroes of Mana and Children of Mana were a DISASTER which I'd rather not even talk about, and the bad excuse for a Mana game that is Dawn of Mana (sadly, what is theoretically Seiken Densetsu 4) is depressing. Anyway, as for those, each one with one's own opinions. By the way, I have been thinking of going into a Mana series tour lately... I'm having enormous urges to replay SoM and SD3, especially.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 21, 2009 17:43:56 GMT -5
lol, no, I did NOT mean it that way. >_> It just that when I first played the game I happened to be that age, as well as people I knew back then. The game got released in '93 and I was born in '90, but I got to play it at '94. And at that age, I probably just advanced and kept hitting B (or was it "Y"?), but that's also how simple the boss could be, even though that was not the proper way to do it, like the guy on the video did. Getting stun-stuck in SoM isn't, like, the rarest thing in the world, there's no problem falling prey to that, for I have been a victim of that myself even during my re-playthroughs, many of which occurred when I was much older. But that was my, the player's mistake, everytime. But it happens.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Dec 21, 2009 18:41:53 GMT -5
Pfft! You and your Sword of Mana hate! Secret of Mana could NEVER hold a candle to Sword of Mana. Never! I mean, using Santa as a plot point? Seriously? If I wanted to get my Santa on, I'd play a HOLIDAY game. Secret of Mana clearly violated that rule in using a holiday character for a non-holiday scenario! The worst choice ever! Definitely a WTF moment if I ever saw one in a Mana game! Sword of Mana used the original story from Final Fantasy Adventure / Seiken Densetsu and its gameplay was actually an IMPROVEMENT of Secret's annoyingly lackluster broken system; it actually does right, what its sequel had executed QUITE POORLY! Not to mention that the music and graphics are WAY better! It was an enjoyable experience that I have gladly repeated numerous times, and will continue to repeat in the future. Secret blows, no question! I even enjoyed SoE more than SoM -- a game which was a disappointment in each and every way humanly possible.
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Post by Justin on Dec 21, 2009 19:17:11 GMT -5
Sword of Mana is ok, but the original game is 10000000x better. Oh and SD II is 1000000x better
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Post by HJ on Dec 21, 2009 19:19:40 GMT -5
Au contraire, I didn't skip a single enemy. I even wandered around a lot because the game is stupidly vague about where to go at that point. Also, you talk like it's my fault if I didn't bring shitloads of holy water and candies to heal my members, but why should I? They should stop behaving like retards so I don't need to replace most of their organs with anabolic candyroids. Sure, I can stay alive for a long time against the tiger, but without items my teammates won't. What kind of game encourages item spam? Potions and the like are supposed to be an aid for when you're finding the boss too difficult to tackle without help. My swordmanship levelled up, but I don't think my actual level did. Regardless, that video is an unfair argument, because as you might notice, the boss never even use it's dreaded crystal missile attack, which it repeatedly used against me. Also, check out that stun attack, even though he's standing behind the boss and the weird thing moves forward, he still gets hit. What's up with that? And dude... why is there a WoW add next to the video? Well, a lot of the bosses seemed to be rather resistant to all but magic, sometimes a certain element too. And maybe I was using the wrong weapon, but I got my ass handed to me by a lot of bosses when I tried getting up close and personal. Not all of them, mind you, but some. Besides, if using the sword or hell, any melee weapon gimps you so much against bosses, then that's lame too. It's advertising variety without actually having it. That's fraud, I should sue this game! Maybe so, but if bosses are super speedy and will dodge everything except magic, which just so happens to be undodgeable, then that is forcing you to grind for the sake of bypassing the boss. Missing is fine if it happens very sparsely, but the action part of ARPG is a vital point, and attacks missing is a very artificial way to increase difficulty in such games, unless done with heavy, heavy moderation. Wouldn't you be annoyed if you were fighting, uh, let's say Dark Fact, and you were just about to finish him off at long last, but then Adol just went right through him instead and "LOL YOU MISSED" appeared on the screen? It's a real dick move, is all I'm saying. And I got like... a few dungeons further than that desert town, iirc. Something like that, anyway, certainly long enough to claim I gave it a fair chance. Incidentally, though, this argument I've had with everyone has inspired me to try the game out on my PSP in the near future, so it wasn't a wasted effort for you all. In regards to other mana games, Legend and Sword of Mana were easily the best for me. Legend moreso than Sword; I loved that game. Children was... eh, like I said earlier, awesome soundtrack. Dawn's ost is also amazing, never played the game, never going to. Btw, don't worry about offending me. I'm very hard to offend. Not that it seemed like you were trying, I'm just sayin' for good measure.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Dec 21, 2009 19:57:25 GMT -5
Missing is fine if it happens very sparsely, but the action part of ARPG is a vital point, and attacks missing is a very artificial way to increase difficulty in such games, unless done with heavy, heavy moderation. Wouldn't you be annoyed if you were fighting, uh, let's say Dark Fact, and you were just about to finish him off at long last, but then Adol just went right through him instead and "LOL YOU MISSED" appeared on the screen? It's a real dick move, is all I'm saying. This paragraph is total WIN!!!
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Post by HJ on Dec 21, 2009 20:21:22 GMT -5
I like Secret of Mana's music a fair amount, but it's not that impressive to me. Chrono Trigger and Terranigma are the heavy hitters as far as SNES soundtracks go, imo.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 21, 2009 20:25:57 GMT -5
Au contraire, I didn't skip a single enemy. I even wandered around a lot because the game is stupidly vague about where to go at that point. Also, you talk like it's my fault if I didn't bring shitloads of holy water and candies to heal my members, but why should I? They should stop behaving like retards so I don't need to replace most of their organs with anabolic candyroids. Sure, I can stay alive for a long time against the tiger, but without items my teammates won't. What kind of game encourages item spam? Potions and the like are supposed to be an aid for when you're finding the boss too difficult to tackle without help. Uh, Final Fantasy? xD Dragon Quest? Chrono Trigger? Anyway, there's no item spam in SoM: As it has been previously brought up, you can only carry 4 units per item in the game, and at that point only the candy ("potion") and herb ("antidote/heal") are usable in the fight. (They are absurdly cheap, too.) There's also that resurrection cup, but you don't necessarily need it. You just ought to battle calmly and slowly, but also not wasting time. You may even not need all those items, actually. Even if you need them, I can't see how that would be item spamming, in all honesty. I personally don't think it could be any more well-balanced. (Also, there isn't much item use after getting magic, except in tight situations. And you get magic after the 4th boss, and the game has about 50 bosses.) My swordmanship levelled up, but I don't think my actual level did. Regardless, that video is an unfair argument, because as you might notice, the boss never even use it's dreaded crystal missile attack, which it repeatedly used against me. Also, check out that stun attack, even though he's standing behind the boss and the weird thing moves forward, he still gets hit. What's up with that? And dude... why is there a WoW add next to the video? I saw a video of a guy taking hits with that missile. It isn't likely he will spam it 4 times in a row or so, though. Even so, they aren't killers, but yeah, they could be troublesome. However, depending on what the player does, certain moves may be triggered. If you stop the video at 1:11 or so, you'll see an NPC saying something about "wait for the monster to attack first" or "study the patterns first", even. About the "weird thing" stunning attack, perhaps you didn't notice it, but out of the scythe-like claws (the "weird thing") comes a green homing projectile. Dunno about the WoW add, though. xD I use Adblock Plus. Well, a lot of the bosses seemed to be rather resistant to all but magic, sometimes a certain element too. And maybe I was using the wrong weapon, but I got my ass handed to me by a lot of bosses when I tried getting up close and personal. Not all of them, mind you, but some. Besides, if using the sword or hell, any melee weapon gimps you so much against bosses, then that's lame too. It's advertising variety without actually having it. That's fraud, I should sue this game! Actually, any weapon is fine at any given boss (maybe with the exception of the last one?). The reason you had greater trouble with melee weapons against bosses later on must have been because you didn't power them up with a given element, done by the girl with supportive magic. If you're fighting some big ice guy or something, for example, power up the weapons with fire, and that will make the weapons not only deal more damage, but also have much greater hit rate. Maybe so, but if bosses are super speedy and will dodge everything except magic, which just so happens to be undodgeable, then that is forcing you to grind for the sake of bypassing the boss. Missing is fine if it happens very sparsely, but the action part of ARPG is a vital point, and attacks missing is a very artificial way to increase difficulty in such games, unless done with heavy, heavy moderation. Wouldn't you be annoyed if you were fighting, uh, let's say Dark Fact, and you were just about to finish him off at long last, but then Adol just went right through him instead and "LOL YOU MISSED" appeared on the screen? It's a real dick move, is all I'm saying. And I got like... a few dungeons further than that desert town, iirc. Something like that, anyway, certainly long enough to claim I gave it a fair chance. Incidentally, though, this argument I've had with everyone has inspired me to try the game out on my PSP in the near future, so it wasn't a wasted effort for you all. In regards to other mana games, Legend and Sword of Mana were easily the best for me. Legend moreso than Sword; I loved that game. Children was... eh, like I said earlier, awesome soundtrack. Dawn's ost is also amazing, never played the game, never going to. Btw, don't worry about offending me. I'm very hard to offend. Not that it seemed like you were trying, I'm just sayin' for good measure. Grinding is always an option, but it isn't the only one. You see, about dodging, at most time you can't avoid boss attacks like "oh shit, he's coming!", but rather "he'll likely do this soon, so I'll move away.". And in order to do that, you must observe the patterns first. Ys I is a completely different beast, though; you can't compare SoM with it. xD For example, it's many times more fast-paced. And even if so, well, Dark Fact could still miss an attack just as much. xD Speaking of missing attacks, that mostly happens only with bosses, and some special enemies. For both, though, the attack probably won't miss if you execute it when the % "counter" has already hit 100. Well, actually, there ARE some enemies pretty hard to hit without magic (they are meant to be attacked with magic), and some ghosts enemies do only die with magic. But that's... well, also part of the aforementioned variety. Also, yeah, I don't think the series ever had an OST below average. Admittedly, all of them did have nice arrangements, even the God-awful Dawn of Mana.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Dec 21, 2009 20:45:25 GMT -5
Chrono Trigger, yeah!!! That's probably one thing that Secret of Mana has going for it. The fact that Chrono Trigger basically reused its characters, with the exception of Sprite. Infact, if Secret of Mana were Chrono Trigger instead, ARPG style, I'd have been impressed. Perhaps that's why I was disappointed; having played CT first and being spoiled by its prettiness in every aspect -- graphics, music, gameplay, story, etc. -- only to see Secret of Mana after... really, that doesn't hold a candle to CT. When they came out with Sword of Mana, they gave me something I could actually enjoy, because it was advertised as being a Final Fantasy Adventure / Seiken Densetsu GB remake. As such, I was looking forward to the enhanced gameplay (which, again, is a LOT better than Secret of Mana's -- deeper, more involving, it caters to your style and doesn't disappoint! Everything was handled so much better this time around, and infact improved in every possible way!), a retelling of the original scenario, the addition of another playable scenario (I still need to finish the Girl's scenario!), enhanced/remixed music (I LOVED the music!!!), enhanced graphics and artwork -- everything was just PERFECT! I got exactly what I expected! ...as for Secret of Mana, I was expecting a decent sequel to Final Fantasy Adventure. All I got was a wimpy kid, a bunch of godawful puns, and instead of actual tragedies, deaths, and pain being inflicted, I get an adventure about a soap opera with the Princess and Dyluck, and her adventure with the "woe is me" main character whose only 'tragedy' was being banished from Potos. Big whoop. That doesn't concern me in the least! Add to that a rehash of Star Wars style Rebels vs. Empire story, with Santa Claus being thrown in for some god-awful, inexplicable reason, and you have yourself the most horrifying mother of all cliches all clumped together in a gigantic mess with broken gameplay. No thank you!
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Post by HJ on Dec 21, 2009 20:48:00 GMT -5
Except antidoes to cure poison, I never use items in any RPGs, ever, and I generally have an easy time without them. I think I said this to Wyrd in another topic too, but I can't quite remember. I won't say that it's fair of me to wanna be able to go by with no items, but having to completely max out my item inventory before each boss battle is absolutely ridiculous. I suppose there's always healing magic, true, but those MP walnuts cost big money, and so do the resurrection items for my teammates who seem to make a habit of dying all the time. Besides, then I'd have to grind my healing magic too, nobody wants that.
Actually, my weird thing I did mean that homing projectile. It seems to shoot straight forward and half-loop without really coming close, yet the poor fellow still gets knocked down. And I dunno, I died a lot during the because it stunned me and then hit me, and used that magic stuff. Not that it mattered since the old guy kept reviving me, I was just using the first boss to illustrate a gripe I have with the game, seeing as everybody should remember the first boss.
Eh, then we're just back on magic-beefing again... And I dunno, the sword didn't seem to fare so well against the tiger, to name an example.
The problem is, Adol is more likely to miss than Dark Fact since he has magical boss powers, and Adol has nothing since he didn't spend several hours grinding magic and weapon proficiency. Besides, none of it changes the fact that it's a huge dick move and a luck-element in what should be a contest of skill. I think it's a far too recurring element in SoM, moderation, plz?
And those enemies you speak of are a nuisance. What if I'm out of MP and walnuts, or I didn't grind my magic enough to kill them with what little MP I have left? I smell bad design choice and artificial gamelength. You can brush it off as variety or whatever, and tell me I need to prepare better which I imagine would be your counterargument here, but I refuse to simply accept it as that.
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Post by Ascended Mermaid on Dec 21, 2009 20:51:42 GMT -5
Man, you REALLY don't like that game. Why the hell are you playing it?! -Tom Because I own it; my goal is to hopefully have less than 100 unfinished games on my list by the end of 2010. Perhaps 50. Perhaps 25. The less that I have unfinished, the better. Plus, I'm hoping somehow, SoM will magically redeem itself with something amazing that I just haven't gotten to yet.
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Post by HJ on Dec 21, 2009 20:54:02 GMT -5
Same here, I paid for the darn game, so someday I WILL conquer it.
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Post by HJ on Dec 21, 2009 21:01:00 GMT -5
On an even more off-topic note, I love how off-topic we always end up getting here. And I also love how it's not frowned upon. It feels sort of ironic to say "on an off-topic note" and then go on to praise the level of off-topicness, though.
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Post by HJ on Dec 21, 2009 21:10:56 GMT -5
Ha! Nice save, there. And that tune is rather catchy.
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Post by Justin on Dec 21, 2009 21:14:23 GMT -5
Well, all this talk has gotten me listening to the soundtrack again... and man, it really is one of my favorites from the SNES era. I'm sorry, but I'd say it's right up with Chrono Trigger's OST. So thank you. -Tom The only thing that sucks about the ost is how short each track is. Its got almost as many songs as SD III, and yet its packed onto one disk.
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Post by Red Hairdo on Dec 21, 2009 22:45:23 GMT -5
Eh, then we're just back on magic-beefing again... And I dunno, the sword didn't seem to fare so well against the tiger, to name an example. Nope, we were talking about magic spamming before; this is the first time "magic beefing" is brought up. Besides, you only may (as in, it's not even required) "beef yourself up" with an element just once: element gets stuck on weapon. Wow, that was hard. xD Needless to say, that only helps the game's case, even if not by much. About the tiger boss, the sword fares just as well. Sure, the bow is better for keeping some distance, but the only time it's possibly better is when the boss moves to the pillars. Even so, if I recall correctly, you could still charge up the spear and release it on him and still hit him as another option. The problem is, Adol is more likely to miss than Dark Fact since he has magical boss powers, and Adol has nothing since he didn't spend several hours grinding magic and weapon proficiency. Besides, none of it changes the fact that it's a huge dick move and a luck-element in what should be a contest of skill. I think it's a far too recurring element in SoM, moderation, plz? Once again, no grinding is required in SoM and whatever typical-RPG-ish Ys I you came up with in your head: you proceed in the game while leaving no creature alive. See a magic-vulnerable enemy? Then use magic, and it levels up. The enemy can be easily killed with melee weapons? Then save your magic and get rid of them, leveling up your weapon. You got hit? Heal yourself with magic, leveling it up. You play so well you don't get hit and didn't level up cure magic? Then you won't need it much against the boss either, and even when on a low-level, cure magic is still strong: there're statuses which raise a magic's intensity as well. And those enemies you speak of are a nuisance. What if I'm out of MP and walnuts, or I didn't grind my magic enough to kill them with what little MP I have left? I smell bad design choice and artificial gamelength. You can brush it off as variety or whatever, and tell me I need to prepare better which I imagine would be your counterargument here, but I refuse to simply accept it as that. Ignore. To keep walking isn't that hard. And, just a tip: save your Magic Nuts for bosses. Anyway, enemies which are solely vulnerable to magic are actually so weak they die right after a single casting. Two castings if both you and your magic are extremely underleveled, which shouldn't happen if you aren't the type of sparing enemies right in front of you through the course of the game. As for the enemies which are quite resistant to physical attacks, they die as easily with magic as the aforementioned ghosts. But even so, you can pretty much kill them with weapons without much trouble; they usually have low HP, and if you charge up your weapon, hit rate increases (I think the accurracy may even be 100%?). However, if you somehow magically managed to waste all your MP so that you don't have enough to use magic on magic-vulnerable enemies, whose appearances are absurdly rare, giving you very little chance of running out of MP, then you have to do what I said earlier.
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Post by Justin on Dec 21, 2009 22:49:34 GMT -5
Like I said in my post a long time ago, I think the differences here are play style. What works for one dude, probably won't work for another. SoM being the case here, I think you guys have both described some really different perceptions about how to tackle certain parts of the game.
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